Skeese

iTrader: (11)

What I mean by proper is swapping the car in what I would call a "well engineered" way. Welding up a sub-frame that has not been designed in accordance with the static, dynamic, and torsional forces that the motor to sub-frame mounts, sub-frame to sub-frame welds or sub-frame to chassis mounts will be subjected to under load is extremely unsafe to both the driver AND anybody anywhere near that 600 RWHP car regardless of motor choice. People use CAD and FEA software for a pretty good reason.

I'm also talking about where you retain the factory AC in the car, factory power steering rack powered by the LS, factory cluster/gauge function, correct the bump-steer issues, and properly support/brace the transmission and rear end after deleting the PPF.

Yeah you can buy a roller, toss the 13b, pick up a craigslist welder, and get the 5.3 and a turbo setup in the car for next to nothing but you will lack the functionality of a well engineered car and you'll always find there are small annoying issues that weren't addressed. You mentioned your "fast, cheap & reliable" ws6 and how it was 3/3. While it was modified, fast, and reliable I believe this was due to being the OEM motor in an OEM car that had been properly modified. It was on the OEM systems with the OEM engine harness wiring, all of which had been well engineered for that car by an automotive OEM.

If you are going to swap motor platforms in a car you cannot realistically think you will be able to replicate the fast, cheap and reliable 3/3 that you did with the modified stock motor car...you will be back to choosing 2/3.

Anyways, those are just my thoughts. Take them with a grain of salt.

-Skeese

craaaazzy

iTrader: (9)

do some of you posters not catch that he has a NON-RX7 car with an REW so why are you talking about LS swapped RX7's?

OP, the rotary is unique so it has a mystique around it and die hard fans. i remember seeing a rotary swapped Nova on here and it was quick. totally depends on what you want and how comfortable you are with working on the different motors.

ls325ci

I take it youve never build anything like this? its not rocket science, were not exactly reinventing the wheels here. CAD and FEA is nice but its not always needed. even those company that sells kits for their car has very limited R&D behind them.

If your concerned about that why not just copy their design. its not like its top secret everyone has them.

People have been swapping engines forever now, with way more torque and way faster, plus sees more abuse.


Factory stuff are easily integrated if you want to, Ive noticed that people that have them, have them because they choose to have them, people that dont didnt want them or didnt bother because to them it wasnt worth it.
tons of information on here, definitely worth the read if you want full everything.

no you cant just pick up a welder and go at it.

I know have to fabricated, Ive done countless of projects, ive taken welding class, ive work in a performance shop at some point in my life. I also have a decent MIG welder.

turbo LS is proven cheap power and reliable.

If your concern is the swap cost, if you can fabricate I hope you understand that your cost goes down tremendously, I dont have to buy kits for mounting, custom manifolds, custom exhaust/none of that. because you can make them.

Again your cost vary depending on your skill set.
headover to hotrod forums, youll be amazed on what people are doing in their garage.

ls325ci

I dont think people read that part even though i mentioned it a couple of times.
or maybe they choose to ignore it and focus on the ls in place of rotary.

based on what im finding the engine itself shouldnt be to difficult to learn for a basic build. However the tuning support on the otherhand


Ive been reading and watching some videos since i started this post, I think ill be attempting doing an engine rebuild and do an at home port job and see how that goes(i still doing research but im finding a enough how to video for me to actually want to attemp it. I mean if at the end i end up not liking the results i can always just sell the rebuilt engine.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

^^^
Don't do it. The rotary is a POS old school engine and very addictive.

I know I should do an LS swap in my 7, but I just can't get excited about putting that lazy, big, expensive, "complex", crap sounding engine (even worse than rotary?) in the car.
I spend hours thinking how I could fit 180deg headers in front of the engine to make it sound good and looking for deals on used engines and T56s.

Probably going to stick to the rotary because they are so easy to build, cheap and keeps me in a lower racing class.

Don't f with the rotary- stick to the LS engines that you know.

-----
Also, at 600rwhp a single turbo rotary will have no power under ~3,500rpm because it is naturally aspirated while the turbo is in lag. So you go from no power to big power over short rpm and time and it makes it harder to drive.

The 600hp turbo LS is also naturally aspirated while the turbo is in lag, but it has torque from huge displacement to start with so it is easy to drive.

-----
Only reasons I see to go rotary over LS in a given chassis is if it allows you to be more competitive in a racing class, you have no money and a rotary core, or the 100lbs or more weight savings is going to make a big difference to the chassis.

Masefd

I agree with above. If your car is swapped to a rotary I would go with the original engine. It's not worth it imo

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

What made me stay Rotary in my FC was a few things:
1. its character
2. I knew I wanted more power
3. Swapping to a LS engine just seemed like cheating for power
4. I wanted to do something few people have attempted, fewer succeeded at, and do a better, cleaner job at it for far less than anyone else could by being creative.

So fate put a 20B-REW in my lap and Project OldTree was born

Moe Greene

iTrader: (2)

I currently own a 2014 STI hatchback and a recently purchased a 1993 Rx7. A little background before I answer the question. I have owned many different sports (1995 M3, 2011 S5, 1994 Supra TT, 2004 M3, 2005 STI, 2014 STI, 2008 G37...) out of all the cars I fell in love with the Supra and the STI.

The supra, the inline 6 in the supra was absolutely amazing in the sense that it was so smooth and made so much power with just a few mods also the looks of the supra

The STI, the handling and agility of the car absolutely blew me away, there is a road that curves around the edge of a reservoir on my way to work that i take and no car to this day that i have owned gives me the confidence to push it as hard as the STI. Now Im sure many people will argue and say that my E46 M3 would be able to go much faster around the turn but i never felt comfortable doing so, the STI honestly gives you a feel of invincibility around turns that no other car has ever given to me.... until i bought a FD RX-7.

I feel the RX-7 is a mix of my two favorite cars (MK4 Supra and STI) it has the timeless look of the supra both inside and outside and provides such and amazing vibration free experience. Also making power on the RX-7 is fairly easy and reliable, now I know people will laugh at me for saying that but please hear me out, the car weighs almost 900 pounds less than a supra so you don't have to make as much power to get that same feeling of being pushed back to your seat and god dam the turbos spool so dam fast on the RX-7 that acceleration is actually really good. From what I have read and seen people who take care of there RX-7 and perform maintenance on time + have a good tune have had little to no issues with the car. So its as if I have the best of both worlds, great handling like the STI and great feeling of confidence, plus amazing looks and acceleration like the Supra.

Another aspect for me is the sound the car makes, the brap brap brap during idle is absolutely intoxicating, honestly a big part of cars for me is sound. If i just wanted amazing acceleration that is also reliable I would purchase a Tesla Model S. Yes i know that the price of a model S and price of a LS swapped FD are not the same but just talking about my situation personally.

One last aspect for me is one that Matt Farrah touched on when he compared the LS swapped FD vs a single Turbo FD. A LS swapped FD turns into a Corvette, if I wanted a V8 powered rear wheel drive car that looks nice I would just buy a Corvette and skip the entire process of swapping an LS into a FD.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

The OP is talking about something like this people-

There is no trace of RX-7 character in the build to be saved by keeping the rotary engine...

Moe Greene

iTrader: (2)

Woops

I guess thats what I get for skimming through it so quickly

Moe Greene

iTrader: (2)

Okay so I would say if you can fit a LS in the car then go ahead and do so, no real advantage in keeping a rotary engine if you can fit a LS in the engine bay. Oh if you decide to sell the 13B please let me know, Im looking at picking up a new backup engine.

Tairon

you want s small coupe rwd chassis with a v8? buy a c4 corvette otherwise leave the rx7s alone

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Brilliant!

OP, don't do rotary- see what it does to our brains?

Michael Lewo

iTrader: (1)

Love how everyone on here who loves the rotary motor but is being totally honest about the reliable high HP "Limit". There are a few guys in Orlando around myself who make 700WHP+, and they drag their car. Fast cars

But you bet your *** they have a low boost tune for the street... which begs another question

Do you want High boost and low boost settings? Boosted cars have that luxury... and than you can in fact reliably drive a Rotary on 500whp daily, and when you feel the need, drain your tank, switch fuels, turn up the boost and have at it. You can do that on a Rotary or an LS though.

The reason I stuck with the Rotary is because the uniqueness. Yes, it not always as fast or reliable as an LS. But lets be serious... When you have 10k screaming in your ear its pretty hard to say no. And a high power Rotary is always special, they snap necks and most all... Its like a 2-stroke. No *****... than all of the *****. It is a really cool experience

Do what you want, you can make power with both, understand the reliability of a rotary is obviously not as consistent as an LS. But how you treat it matters. Take care of a Rotary, they last... and they love Abuse

Pics of my turd box for ***** and giggles of what a high power Rotary looks like (Almost done)

ls325ci

BTW isnt that a bit small of intercooler to support 700whp?

not interested in e85 or race gas to make that power. i want 91 oct with methanol.
I dont see the point of making 700whp on race gas. and cant use it when your driving around town.(again this is for a DD)

I had used e85 as a DD. Great gas but having to plan out fill up station gets old fast.(And i have two gas station 5 minutes from my house, after a year of going to the same station and filling early everytime i gave up and switch.)
Plus going for a long cruise is out of the question. Couldnt risk it.

IMO im not a fan of low/high settings... specially if you have to switch gas.
Hi low is just pointless even with just plain 91 oct, I already know im just going to keep it at high all the time anyways. so why bother. My car is always on Max/high because everything can handle it, why would i want to run low if everything can take it?

ls325ci

why would i restrict myself with what comes factory?

Ive seen guys here use ford diff, rims (even gm trans) but when its the engine oh oh lol

Hey if you want to lug that extra weight of the c4 be my guest.


btw this isnt even a question about that. its strictly engine.


BUT now im kinda wondering how many people here at touching 600-700whp? some are saying they are reliable and some admit they arent that reliable.


Unless you want to come to cali, if a real buyer wants it ill pull it in a weekend.

Michael Lewo

iTrader: (1)

The IC is 7 inches thick. Its exact dimensions run on 1000WHP+ Drag cars... I think it should work just fine And I myself run E85, will be running C85 (More consistent E85), I should be able to run at 700 all day without having to swtich fuels. I was just offering it as a suggestion. I'm a fan of happy mediums.

But 91 with meth? No. Sorry to say, you'll be pushing to get to 600whp on a 2 rotor. It's just frankly not going to be able to get there safely and reliably. If you want to use 91 and meth or a similiar set up go V8. Dont bother with a Rotary its not worth it for the goal you clearly have in mind.


And going for a long cruise isnt that big of deal, if I run out of gas I CAN put 93 into my car, I just cannot get into boost. Its a matter of you'll be able to get to the next gas station, but it wont be fun.


personally I ran my car at 500ish low boost; 601whp high boost and daily drove it for year. Obviously not beating on it every day but it held up just fine. And to be frank, it was on high boost most of the time >

ls325ci

Wow that's thick. Is this a track car? Can't really compare DD usage VS drag car that only see a few second of use at a time.
I'm no expert but considering the thickness of it a thinner but wider/larger would be more efficient at cooling, I can see this getting heat soak pretty fast on hot days.
Don't forget on the thick IC the back side is getting cool by hot air that past through the first few inches. But hey I'm sure it would work I just think that a bigger but same volume would be better suited for street.

Thanks for the input, but yea no more special Gas for me, I have run out of gas once on e85 where I had to load up on 91, no 93 here. And have you ever run 91 on e85 tune? Definitely a fairly big deal, and depending on where your live I suppose. Here we are sort or lucky e85 are within 30 minutes of each other. If I take any long trips(which I do) e85 is none existent. some gas station only have 87...
I'm not talking about your 30minute cruise btw.
You can always install a e85 sensor though, I didn't see the point.

Yea my car see wot daily. I was pretty optimistic about the rotary since I've read people saying they are reliable and all that good stuff...
I had a 1g dsm talon and they have a reputation of being not reliable, yet i been on that daily at 530awhp, stock engine at that and it never gave me problems(was kinda hoping rotary was like that, bad rep but performs well lol

DC5Daniel

iTrader: (10)

Why is no one talking about flex fuel sensors? They're cheap, and any decent ECU can work with them. No worries about filling up with high octane or corn.

Michael Lewo

iTrader: (1)

No I built the car to be able to daily 700whp Hence why everything is near overkill on my car but thats entirely another thing...

And nah. That IC is built by Gato Racing with the intention of having Drag car performance in a Street car. It's built to go down the street, sit in traffic, and do 9's eventually. The goal for the car is to be able to auto cross it, drag it, road course it, and than drive it to the grocery store for some milk. A similiar set up he built runs very cool during the summer months down here in Florida, which is to say something with the humidity.

Also, the radiator has to be that size and position to allow for airflow to the turbo itself with a large V-mount setup.



And as someone else said, Flex fuel sensors are cheap and do work with most ECU. It makes it much safer to put 91 in if you run out of gas I suppose.

ls325ci

LOL I did mention that like a post before. I just called it e85 sensor BC I couldn't recall what it was called. Worth the trouble to get to the next gas station but you won't still be able to drive it normal/wot unless you expend the extra time and money and also tune low octain tables and have hi lo setting on boost, not to mention if your running 30,40+ psi chances are your gates are in the 20+ spring\ out of 91 territory.

Then of course not all ECU supports flex fuel sensor, not everyone is willing to spend 1-2K+ on standalone.
Over all if you have the money and time to set one up why not, but IMO not worth the trouble but I don't see e85 worth my trouble anymore so could just be me lol

ls325ci

I'm sure they know what they are doing but running very cool as in?
Do you happen to know what their IAT numbers are?
I'd be interested in using one but only after some numbers.
Wait so they choice is made because you needed space for the turbo? If that wasn't the case would a wider intercooler would be used?
What's the cost for one of these

RGHTBrainDesign

I think I'll throw my hat into this arena while I'm here...

Rotaries have a smoothness unparalleled by any other motor, including I6 or V12 configurations. As such, your 400whp Rotary vs. a 400whp v8 will be a completely different experience. Idle, the rotary has nearly everything beat. Gran Touring (long distance traveling), the rotary is butter smooth and quiet.

80% of my driving is in the canyons. I have no need for over 400whp personally, especially in a 2500lb car.

Either configuration can be as docile or nasty as you want it to be. You can have a turbo rotary hit like a freight train, or using the same setup, have power come on completely smooth and linear. The v8 tuning is relatively set, but with GM's newer technologies, you're about to squeeze out incredible MPG (running on 4 cylinders at cruise), and a cam change will modify drivability to your liking.

What it comes down to is that it's nice to have options. I picked up my 83 Rx7 5yrs ago and have been resto-modding it to what I believe a 100k Gran Touring model would be like in today's world, if they still made it. That's 13bt, 400whp, V-mount, great sound system, plush interior, excess sound insulation, exotic exhaust (quiet around town, loud in the canyons).

I think we can all agree that these chassis are phenomenal, regardless of what goes into them, and the entire automotive scene thrives off of personal touches. Just have fun and do what you want. It's your money, not theirs, so have the haters try and follow you and leave them in the dust!

Michael Lewo

iTrader: (1)

To be completely honest I'm not sure about about the IAT numbers, but Gato has been building intercoolers for a rotary for a very long time and he built what I asked for to what I wanted it for... I'm sure it'll stay cool enough for my liking.

And no, the intercooler was specfically NOT bigger because than it wouldn't allow cool air to the turbo and cool air around the intercooler itself. If it takes up the whole bay, its quite hard to effectively cool I'd imagine considering the larger heat dissipation.

To be frank if I recall correctly he charged me about $2300 for the Intercooler set up. That's fitted to the car specifically for the turbo set up, intake set up, etc.

ls325ci

pretty interested in linear power band, I had a supra and dsm before and the power band is very peaky. its fun but not as good for around town use.

are you able to achieve linear powerband with 5-600whp setup?