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I have a 13b engine with these iron plates and it has been ported. My question is are these side plates useable? I believe 11mm is the smallest you can go?
Post a picture looking directly at the port without the caliper . Also no way of answering that question accurately without being able to measure the step wear and distortion or the iron itself. Form the picture it does look fine at least from what I can see ......except the edge of the port looks fairly sharp.
I already measured the step and flatness it is good there. What I'm trying to ask is the part where I'm measuring that's where the side seals and corner seals ride on. It looks awfully small i belive 11mm is the minimum thickness is that correct? I'm affair the corner seal will fall out or will get chop up since it only riding on a small surface.
Looks very close but looks like the corner seal will stay ...... But the side seal is not gonna survive unless you smooth out the top edge to give it a smooth transition.
The area circled in red but more specifically the where that black outline is. So long as the apex seal and corner seal is supported and the side seal has a way to make a smooth transition to the irons sealing surface without snagging you will be fine . The corner seal its self will not have enough room to fall in to the port .
I port for earliest opening and have a plexi template with the side seal's paths etched on it.
Just went out to the garage and checked with my calipers. Measured a port I have done just like in your pic and measured with template on iron to be sure.
Minimum you can have is 11mm on the bottom of the port and you need 12mm by the middle of the port to keep the vertical side seal on the plate.
Also, as noted when you do an early opening port like this it is imperative to make that outer top radius very small so the other side seal does not hit its outer tip on the outer edge of the port as it runs across the top of the port to close it.
To be sure of what I am telling you and for future reference you should make a plexi template with the side seals path etched in it.
Assemble your front side housing, rotor housing, e-shaft and rotor and cut a plexi plate to fit over the e-shaft and secured by the two dowel pins.
Rotate the rotor with side seals in the side seal slots with their tips bent up at 90 deg angle to scratch the plexi plate and a corner seal with no spring to keep the side seal springs in place.
You will quickly see exactly how the port must be shaped and the limits of porting.
The corner seal plug is definitely falling thru maybe I should use the solid corner seal instead? The actual corner seal ride on about 30% of it surface when passing thru that gap. Also the side seal that sit on the other End is not being seal at all
The corner seal plug is definitely falling thru maybe I should use the solid corner seal instead? The actual corner seal ride on about 30% of it surface when passing thru that gap. Also the side seal that sit on the other End is not being seal at all
I should have mention that a solid corner seal would be a must..... I tend to forget about the corner seal plug since I haven't used one in years.
Definitely not trash.You are not the first and I promise you won't be the last to have done this. What blue turboII mentions is a common misconception. Many believe that because the side seal tip passes inside the port itself that the irons become useless . The problem with many of these larger ports is that the side seals hit the edge of the port when closing . (Specifically the area circled in black on the picture above). The way to get away with such a early opening port is to bevel the closing side of the port so that the side seal can pass smoothly over the edge without snagging the tip of the side seal. You cannot use those irons the way that they sit as of right now. You need to bevel the edge. If you don't feel comfortable using them I would will gladly pay you scrap iron weight price for them.😊
Hahaha yes I want to use them and I understand that I have to shapes and bevel the port to clear the side seals. Yes the side seal isn't riding on the iron as it cross the port. And the adjacent side seal is sitting between the port also. I'm worried because I don't want to spend the time and money putting the motor together knowing that it will fail in the future because of this. So I guess you have had this problem before?
this is why you use junk irons if you haven't ported before, toss that side iron in the trash. your center iron may have survived but i can't tell by that last picture, the first iron is.... a science experiment gone very wrong. port longer versus wider if you are unsure about the width limitations.
do yourself a favor, quit winging it and fork out $50 for a template.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-23-15 at 09:44 AM.
I don't think so I'm not putting a **** ton of heat in it is a big piece. Plus the lip of that is like .200 or so with ni99 filler it will be fine. I'll indicate the plate after to see if it still straight. Thanks for everyone input but I have nothing to lose
I don't think so I'm not putting a **** ton of heat in it is a big piece. Plus the lip of that is like .200 or so with ni99 filler it will be fine. I'll indicate the plate after to see if it still straight. Thanks for everyone input but I have nothing to lose
$300+ for a rebuild? Or rotor? Or other major part?
I don't think so I'm not putting a **** ton of heat in it is a big piece. Plus the lip of that is like .200 or so with ni99 filler it will be fine. I'll indicate the plate after to see if it still straight. Thanks for everyone input but I have nothing to lose
you have plenty to lose when you kill the rotor, seals and housing.
the iron isn't called iron for nothing. it is cast iron, it is then machined, it is then nitrided to harden it.
even if you manage to weld it(and welding to cast iron is never really a good idea because the welds will eventually fail) the weld will be porous, the surface will be pitted and of different material. you then will spend $100 to resurface it, then what are you left with? an untreated surface with much higher wear characteristics. so what then? you send it to be nitrided for another $125 if you can find a facility that will only do one piece... so then what are you left with? an iron that you spent $300 to "fix" with a weld that will eventually crack.
we're talking about welding a bit of thin material onto cast iron, that has pressure put on it, that will cause damage if and when the weld breaks and spits the chunk of material into the engine.
if you wanna ignore the advice given, it's your funeral.
ironically, porting a turbo motor doesn't even offer significant benefit.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-23-15 at 05:15 PM.
Have you ever done one? How do you know all of this won't work? thanks for the advice I really appreciate it but I know some one who has successfully done this and it gave him no problem.
I made this post because I want people opinions not answer and thank you for your input. True is no one really knows the answer for certain what work for you night not work for me.
even if it does, for a while, it will still cost you more than just buying a used iron...
unless you have a torch/welding rig, lapping machine and nitriding facility at your disposal, free of charge. then there's retapping the oil galley and coolant freeze plugs, because those will leak once you heat the iron for nitriding, and the cleaning man hours virtually reconditioning the iron. do i sound like i speak from experience? if it was a coolant seal wall, or somewhere else on the iron i might say "go for it", but this is a slightly more critical area.
simply grinding and nitriding isn't even something i recommend unless the part is irreplaceable, you're adding on even more factors into the mix.
this is moving past proving me wrong, its going beyond common sense.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-23-15 at 06:45 PM.
11-20-15, 08:30 PM
