youmadbro?

Hey everyone. First time post, and its a long one Just got my first car yesterday. All black 5speed 88 convertible with 132k on it. WITH NO BODY RUST paid 500. Has a blown coolant seal but I'm gonna try some alumaseal before a rebuild/replace motor. I was charging up the battery today and I finally got her to start and run. For about 5 seconds. Was running pretty rough (4-500 rpm) then she died. And the starter froze. But the starter was working just fine Before the engine started. Earlier tonight I smacked what I think is the solenoid a few Times and it turned over 1 revolution and froze back up. Battery was low again..... so, all the lights work, wipers, hazards ect. But that damn starter... I just want her to run so I can change the oil and flush the coolant system with water. Coolant prevents alumaseal from sticking. Even though it says compatible with all coolant.. weird. So anyone have any ideas to why the starter would abruptly stop working? And to clarify. Starter does get voltage. Sometimes 1 click. Sometimes constant clicks. Just no spinning.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

welcome to the board.

just a word of caution: i wouldn't condemn the starter until you sort the battery out. they can seem to quit working if they're not getting enough power and you have already shown the battery to be weakened.

it's your property so i won't mention the Alumaseal issue .... (see what i did there? )

apsolus

iTrader: (2)

check and make sure the motor aint locked up first

youmadbro?

how would I go about doing this?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

1. 19 mm socket
2. turn the main pulley clockwise by hand

youmadbro?

Issue? I've read a few things about it blocking heater cores and water pumps, and the low success rate in the 13b engine. Either way worth a try. Define your knowledge of said issue please.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

knowledge? my "knowledge" does not extend beyond what i've read and seen in a few post-disassembly photos - probably some of the very same things you have read. i've seen cases where it worked for some people and extended their ability to drive the car without issue and i've seen cases where it did not work and they did not fare so well. personally, i've never used any of those "stop leak" products and i have no future intention to do either. however, it is a personal choice and you seem to have made yours. no worries.

your post makes it sound like you think i was referring to an actual documented issue with it, and for the record, i used the word "issue" in a much more general, and less ominous context.

youmadbro?

Oh ok, yeah I tried hand cranking it. Not even a budge. Is there a fix? Or do I need to swap engines?

Evil Aviator

No! It will NOT seal the leak, and it junk-up your engine internals and lessen the cooling capability of your radiator.

If the engine itself is locked-up, then the starter will exhibit many of the symptoms that you have mentioned. Try turning the engine over by hand before you do screw with it any more. Better yet, don't screw with it at all, just rebuild it before you cause hundreds or thousands of dollars in unnecessary damage.

Edit: Definitely don't screw with it any more.

youmadbro?

To late. I GOT IT RUNNING pretty sure it was carbon lock. Turned it counter clockwise and it broke loose. Then back clockwise and it spun free. The damned thing runs!!!!!!!!!

youmadbro?

Edit: ok it runs. Great. Now I think the apex seals may be bad. Wont idle at all. Have to keep it at 1500rpm or she chuggs and dies. Took it for a VERY short test drive and had very low power. Had to floor it just to get to 15mph. Could the bad coolant seal be causing this? It sat for about a year before I bought her. So it could be a lot of things. I put a thermostat in today cause there wasn't one when I got it. Any ideas? Dirty injectors maybe? -I did put some of that heet water remover in the tank. I think I put in too much. Gimme a break its my first car lol. I'm happy that it runs. But I need some ideas before it turns into a money pit

Evil Aviator

Congrats on the additional damage. Not really sure why you added the smiley, but I'm glad that you are happy about it.

Pretty sure it was one of your seals.

No kidding?

Too late, it was a money pit from the beginning, and you made it into a bigger money pit in a matter of minutes, lol.

Anyway, here are some options:
- Stop screwing with the engine and tear it down for rebuild to see what is wrong. LOL, just kidding, you will never do that because it won't cause any additional damage.
- Perform a compression check to see if a seal is blown. This may cause additional damage when cranking the engine, so you may want to choose this option.
- If you are a real noob, you will choose this final option. Go to your auto parts store and find something else in a can that you think will fix the engine. Once you apply the wonder-fluid, try as hard as you can to get the engine running, and continue to flog the engine as you have been doing. This will cause the most damage, ending up junking the entire engine. If you are really good, it will also junk the exhaust system and maybe some other components too. Bonus!

It doesn't matter because the OP will not listen to you anyhow. Some people need to learn the hard way. At least there is some entertainment value.

youmadbro?

Why is it most people on here have to be a *****? Look. I'm new to rotary engines. But hand me a 2 stroke dirt bike engine and I can rebuild it within a day. I'm not a complete noob, I learn as I go alright? You guys act like I killing something precious to the world. It's an engine for christ sake. A helpful gesture is one thing. But you don't have to be a duck about it

evo_koa

iTrader: (2)

^ no one is quacking so no one is being a duck

youmadbro?

Lol. Damn auto correct. I'm just gonna go get a Haynes repair manual, and grab an engine from the junkyard. Maybe I'll have better luck there. What year rx's engines are compatible?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

question: at this point, in THIS thread, how have MOST people been ******? a little joshing here is actually good preparation for the other areas of the board because your time in this section is, by the definitive nature of this section, limited. i didn't detect anything personal or fundamentally mean-spirited.

anyway ... you're right, of course. i guess it IS just an engine. i suppose it would be unreasonable to say consider it as important as life for the dead or condemned. i would imagine there are no rotor-heads here that would trade a human child for an engine - at least, i hope not. however, this is a gathering place for people united by rotary engines (for the most part) and it will usually be our advice to try to salvage/save as opposed to destroy and dispose.

you realize that guys trying to dissuade you from using stop-leaks or buying a starter off-the-cuff, or trying make THIS engine work without a rebuild is essentially US TRYING TO HELP YOU, and save you time, money and unneeded grief, right? and therefore, by definition, whether it is with or without some joking around, we're neither dicks nor ducks (or any other form of poultry). it's not JUST about the engine.

__________________________________

yes, get Haynes and/or the FSM (download for free).

junkyard may work or you can find a local one for sale - maybe a part-out or something.

however, if you're interested in doing it yourself, it may be worth your while to pull the broken one you already possess and see if any parts are salvageable; then form a plan: budget and rebuild or sell.

Akagis_white_comet

iTrader: (4)

Evil Aviator, keep in mind that this is the New Member RX-7 Technical section. Included below is the description for the sake of comprehension.
To address youmadbro?'s questions and concerns, here's a short rundown

1. Alumaseal or any other product with "amazing claims" (Wonder Fluid as Evil Aviator said), which I refer to as being in the Magic Goo Aisle at Autozone, they don't work. They make things go from bad to worse. In this case, by plugging your radiator and coolant passages with said product.

2. If the engine doesn't want to turn over with reasonable force, stop. Something is binding. This thread fleshes out what goes on in an engine that is seemingly carbon locked: https://www.rx7club.com/1st-gen-arch...rticle-281207/

Please note that after the penetrating oil is sprayed inside the spark plug holes, the engine is to be turned COUNTER-CLOCKWISE at the main pulley. Again, don't force it.

Aaron Cake explains the mechanics of the "ATF Trick" in simple terms here: The "ATF Trick": The Real Truth

But now that it is turning over, a Compression Test is the first thing you should do. This is the tell-all crystal ball of what your engine is doing on the inside. Here is the procedure: www.rotaryresurrection.com/2ndgen/tech_compression_check.html

If it passes the Compression Test with three healthy pulses per rotor, then you have dodged the bullet and are VERY lucky. Evil Aviator described what occurs when an apex or side seal breaks as the fragments go ping-ponging all over. Here is the result of such, in bright vivid pictures:
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...nt_damage.html

3. Before you purchase a Haynes Manual, I would highly recommend downloading the Factory Service Manual instead. It can be found in the Second Generation FAQ. As for the Haynes Manual, my opinion is that it is not accurate on certain items (omission of factory amps on GXL/Turbo models) and the FSM is the better choice.

4. I would recommend against buying a new starter at this point. Also, only use a Mazda one, because those from the parts store(s) simply aren't up to par. I encountered two such NEW starters from Autozone & Advance Auto Parts which would only crank at 70 RPM compared to my OE Mazda one spinning at 170 RPM in a back to back test.

Diabolical1 is right about the forum enjoying some good-natured joking around and that we are here to help, which includes dissuading "fixes" which are known to be destructive.

Overall, the greatest lesson of owning a RX-7 is that the shortcut to success is knowing there are no shortcuts.

youmadbro?

Yeah I think the engine was already screwed. The pictures of the blown coolant seal with the rust everywhere. The seal blew and the car sat for just over a year. I drained what was left of the coolant earlier and it was straight brown... sigh. So I found a junkyard that has a couple rx's. He said 400 outright for and engine or 350 for an exchange. What should I do?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Might be wrong, but common sense would dictate you take the engine apart and see what damage you have and go from there.

Evil Aviator

All RX-7 engines will work with modifications, but it is easiest and cheapest to stick with a Series 4 (1986-1988) non-turbo 13B engine.

You want this: Note the 1986-1988 intake manifold has a cylinder-thing on the driver's side, and the thermostat cover has a cap. Your current engine should look like this.


You don't want this because it is more trouble to swap: Note the 1989-1992 intake manifold has 2 big runners on the driver's side, and the thermostat cover does not have a cap.


Does the engine have a warranty? Hopefully it is not worse than your current engine.

If you have the storage space, and you don't need the extra $50, then you should keep the original engine for spare parts. Even if the internals are complete junk, the alternator, flywheel, fuel injectors, and other external parts are worth more than $50. If you are lucky, many of the internals will still be usable.

What kind of ***** would say something like that? You should be bashed for daring to say something so offensive!

youmadbro?

No warranty. It's straight out of one of the cars he has there. I'm gonna have to bring a compression tester and a battery and probably some gas with me. And see if any of them are good. I know I know DON'T FORCE THE ENGINE! Lol. I know spark plugs have different socket sizes. I know of 5/8 but what size does ngk use? And where the hell would I the apart one of these things? I live in the boonies and have 1 concrete slab that's 10'x10' do I need a specific engine stand or can I rig one. Take note that I'm a poor man and don't make much money. But should be getting a better job within the next couple weeks

Evil Aviator

I think you would be better off taking apart your current engine to see which parts you will need to replace, and then you will know what to look for at the junk yard. However, it may be worth your time to just take a look to see if you are lucky enough to find an engine that cranks and has decent compression. See this link for information on how to perform a compression check.
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2ndgen/techmenu.html

Another option is to remove your engine and ship it off for a rebuild. You will need a lot of expensive tools to properly rebuild the engine yourself, and it will be rather difficult for you to clearance the rotors, measure wear, and perform other technical tasks that typically require some training and/or experience. You can watch a rebuild video to see what is involved with rebuilding an engine so that you can decide if you want to attempt it yourself.

Free:
Rebuilding Rotary Engine Videos - The Wankel Motor
http://www.aaroncake.net/76cosmo/

Buy:
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Books_videos.htm
Mazdatrix Videos
Atkins Rotary Video

They use standard 13/16" spark plugs. The original plugs are no longer in production, so use this guide for new NGK plugs:
Mazdatrix - Spark Plugs

You can use just about any stand, but you will need a specific mounting plate. You could make the plate yourself or buy one:
Rotary Engine Stand Adaptor

Well, then you are in the right club. If you get a better job then you can join the Lamborghini club, lol.

Looks kinda funny when applied to somebody other than me, doesn't it? Hehehe.

youmadbro?

Lamborghini haha yeah right. I'd rather have a 370z. So I went to the yard with the rxs today. Two were early 80s and had already been engine swiped. The 86 I found was in a front end collision and the engine was gone from that too. :l well what's the base price for a ship n build with the worse case scenario of bad damage. (Housings screwed new rotors needed) ect.?

youmadbro?

I will try to get my current engine out. God knows my idiot "friends" won't help me. Good people are so hard to come by nowadays....

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

in a worst case scenario, buy a rebuild if you're not interested in rebuilding it yourself. if you NEED more than half an engine (both rotors are toast and have taken out the rotor housings or more), then it is my opinion that you just buy one from a good source or start with a better core. however, the fact that your engine fired and ran, i would go out on a limb and say you probably have half an engine or a little more.

here is just ONE example of a rebuild kit (not an overhaul kit) an OEM kit is probably about twice that price.

86-88 N/A 13B Rx7 "Master" Rebuild Kit

if it turns out that you can rebuild your engine, start local. check your local forum on the board and see if you can locate someone trustworthy. off the top of my head, i can't think of anyone in Michigan to recommend, but if you end up having to look out of state, there are a few guys in neighboring states (MN, OH, IL, IN, etc.)

labor will vary from place to place, so it makes no sense for me to speculate. just shop around. one quick note though, you're better off spending a little more for a good reputation than you are saving a few hundred bucks on someone questionable.

i just shipped a GM V6 from Wisconsin to Florida and all told it cost me about $200. a rotary is smaller and lighter, so i can't imagine shipping would be more than that.