Best Re to put in FC?
11-12-15, 11:13 PM
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Best Re to put in FC?
Hi, I made up my mind somewhat on which engine to drop in. Money is an issue, but I'm working two jobs to get this on the road. I own a GXL 87 btw. This is my first car I had bought myself, an is worth way moreh than an a turbo 2 from factory to me haha. I was going to buy a t2 motor, but in the long run, for the price of the swap, I might as well get a 13b re Cosmo. But then again having a rew is just as good if not better than the re, but more pricey and more complicated. What do you guys this? Probably not going to dd, track, or drift. Just a weekend cruiser project. My hp expectations for her is 300-400hp, but down the road maybe 600. I'm in a little friendly competition with my friend(practically my brother)'s mk3 7mtge. That kinda pushes me to higher hp possibilities above 300. What do you guys think?
11-12-15, 11:21 PM
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You need some extra cash and fabrication to put an REW in.
Either way,and I don't wanna sound like a Dad,but if your goals are to put your pay from 2 jobs into a car then you may want to think about things down the road.
You said it yourself money is an issue.
Enjoy the N/A,build the "pocket rocket" as a side project,BUT think about what life is tossing at you first.Living comes first..cars come later.
Cars are a dime a dozen but you make life what you can,with what you got.
Either way,and I don't wanna sound like a Dad,but if your goals are to put your pay from 2 jobs into a car then you may want to think about things down the road.
You said it yourself money is an issue.
Enjoy the N/A,build the "pocket rocket" as a side project,BUT think about what life is tossing at you first.Living comes first..cars come later.
Cars are a dime a dozen but you make life what you can,with what you got.
11-12-15, 11:59 PM
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You need some extra cash and fabrication to put an REW in.
Either way,and I don't wanna sound like a Dad,but if your goals are to put your pay from 2 jobs into a car then you may want to think about things down the road.
You said it yourself money is an issue.
Enjoy the N/A,build the "pocket rocket" as a side project,BUT think about what life is tossing at you first.Living comes first..cars come later.
Cars are a dime a dozen but you make life what you can,with what you got.
Either way,and I don't wanna sound like a Dad,but if your goals are to put your pay from 2 jobs into a car then you may want to think about things down the road.
You said it yourself money is an issue.
Enjoy the N/A,build the "pocket rocket" as a side project,BUT think about what life is tossing at you first.Living comes first..cars come later.
Cars are a dime a dozen but you make life what you can,with what you got.
11-13-15, 03:50 PM
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I wish you the best with the sherriff job.
NOW since I gave you such sound advice can you reciprocate and send me a "get out of jail free card"??..hahha!
I've got a Foot problem..my gas foot weights ninety pounds!
NOW since I gave you such sound advice can you reciprocate and send me a "get out of jail free card"??..hahha!
I've got a Foot problem..my gas foot weights ninety pounds!
11-13-15, 06:14 PM
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Why, is this an emotional thing, or do you actually have $45,000 worth of modifications on your car?
No, the Cosmo engine is a pain in the butt. The easiest turbo engine to work with is an 87-88 13BT.
Although it depends a lot on your assignments, in most cases it is impractical to own anything but one daily driver that can pass a safety inspection by your ******** sergeant (must have a working horn, all lights working, windshield wipers, etc.). Therefore, I recommend that you do not spend any unnecessary time or money on your car and just sell it before you join the military, or put your effort into making your car a reliable daily driver for the duration of your enlistment. Keep in mind that hardly any overseas assignments allow you to bring a car, and the insurance company generally will not allow you to let somebody else drive it, so it is going to sit in storage and corrode for a year.
Although it depends a lot on your assignments, in most cases it is impractical to own anything but one daily driver that can pass a safety inspection by your ******** sergeant (must have a working horn, all lights working, windshield wipers, etc.). Therefore, I recommend that you do not spend any unnecessary time or money on your car and just sell it before you join the military, or put your effort into making your car a reliable daily driver for the duration of your enlistment. Keep in mind that hardly any overseas assignments allow you to bring a car, and the insurance company generally will not allow you to let somebody else drive it, so it is going to sit in storage and corrode for a year.
11-13-15, 06:37 PM
#6
welcome to the board. 
i don't really have that much to add. all the big points have already been covered, including the advice on life in general.
i just want to say i agree that you should stick with a Gen II engine for the sake of not having to deal with the complications that come along with the REW engines (both FD and JC). there is nothing in your plans to warrant your NEEDING either of those blocks and even though all turbo 13B block prices are kinda screwy these days, the T is still more affordable, but in your particular more a value. my only slight disagreement comes with going for an S5 since you will benefit from the improvements made over the S4 blocks.
i don't really have that much to add. all the big points have already been covered, including the advice on life in general.
i just want to say i agree that you should stick with a Gen II engine for the sake of not having to deal with the complications that come along with the REW engines (both FD and JC). there is nothing in your plans to warrant your NEEDING either of those blocks and even though all turbo 13B block prices are kinda screwy these days, the T is still more affordable, but in your particular more a value. my only slight disagreement comes with going for an S5 since you will benefit from the improvements made over the S4 blocks.
11-13-15, 07:13 PM
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Thanks for the replies everybody. Nice warm welcome haha. I'll give you a "get out jail card" right after I pick up a couple myself lol.
Yes I'm updated about how the military works. Too many friends and family, including my father telling my what and what not to do.
That would be nice 13bt. I was just thinking it would be nice to have a different, unique build in a unique car of its own. Stock for stock hp numbers always gets my heart racing in excitement. Thought I'd go with the middle man(13b Cosmo)
Yes I'm updated about how the military works. Too many friends and family, including my father telling my what and what not to do.
That would be nice 13bt. I was just thinking it would be nice to have a different, unique build in a unique car of its own. Stock for stock hp numbers always gets my heart racing in excitement. Thought I'd go with the middle man(13b Cosmo)
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11-22-15, 02:44 PM
#8
Banzai Racing has adapter mounts for $210. Front stuff (Water pump/alternator/etc) carries right over from your old 13B. As for the electronics, are you planning for a stock ECU or Piggyback such as a PowerFC or a full standalone like a Haltech? This is where things get tricky. The N390 ECU (Cosmo 13B-RE) panics without an automatic transmission attached, just like its big brother the NF01 (20B ECU). Plus, it require using the matching airflow meter which might be tricky to find a working one.
The N3A1 (FD ECU) would require all FD sensors to behave properly. So it would mean swapping the front cover to a FD one to suit the CAS, using a FD throttle body and some other bits to fool it into thinking the car is a FD. But then you run into things like getting the tach to read properly, and I suspect the same applies to the PowerFC as well. Either way, all 3 cases present you with the same factory limitations built into stock ECUs.
Assuming you're keeping the twins, turbos will bolt up to any 13b block. Some guys swap to FD twins for a bit more power and it'll work just fine. As long as the engine knows it is getting more air (see Airflow meter), it'll behave like nothing happened. The vacuum diagrams between Cosmo 13B-RE and FD 13B-REW are similar but not quite the same due to things like the dual thermostats and a few other things. I haven't had a chance to translate/colorize the 13B-RE one as my priority was the 20B diagram. Once my current projects are off the workbench, I'll take a look at it but it might be awhile.
Banzai Racing is more familiar than I am with doing a 13B-RE FC, so he would be the one to ask.
The N3A1 (FD ECU) would require all FD sensors to behave properly. So it would mean swapping the front cover to a FD one to suit the CAS, using a FD throttle body and some other bits to fool it into thinking the car is a FD. But then you run into things like getting the tach to read properly, and I suspect the same applies to the PowerFC as well. Either way, all 3 cases present you with the same factory limitations built into stock ECUs.
Assuming you're keeping the twins, turbos will bolt up to any 13b block. Some guys swap to FD twins for a bit more power and it'll work just fine. As long as the engine knows it is getting more air (see Airflow meter), it'll behave like nothing happened. The vacuum diagrams between Cosmo 13B-RE and FD 13B-REW are similar but not quite the same due to things like the dual thermostats and a few other things. I haven't had a chance to translate/colorize the 13B-RE one as my priority was the 20B diagram. Once my current projects are off the workbench, I'll take a look at it but it might be awhile.
Banzai Racing is more familiar than I am with doing a 13B-RE FC, so he would be the one to ask.
11-23-15, 09:17 AM
#9
a FC 13BT is a $5k swap
an REW/RE swap is $10k
that's putting aside all the BS, getting the parts to make it run properly, budgeting a rebuild for an unknown engine, ECU, fabrication, etc, etc, etc.
it's cheaper to buy a running car than it is to build one. it being your first car, if it runs fine just leave it alone and do some tasteful mods, keep it as a second car or eventually let go of any attachments and buy something built the way you planned and fix that up.
i've tossed $25k into my car since i bought it, does it look like i did? nope. would i get even half back out of it? hell no, and my car is an original TII, not a incompleted swap like everyone else has.
what i always tell everyone is:
write out a list of everything you want to do and prices, once done double the total and that's about how much you will be into it. do the same for the length of time working on the car, except multiply by 3 or 4.
i know what it takes to build a car and i always miss things causing the cost to go higher than expected, because it's an old car and i truly consider these to be restoration projects, even if just dropping an engine into a car. wiring harnesses break, fuel pumps seize from sitting, alternators fall on their face, ignition switches fail in the week while your engine is out, the motor mounts tear as soon as you start pulling the engine out, the clutch is toast even though you were told it only had 5k miles on it.... i could go on for days.
i'm one of the most knowlegable on the FC and on my last engine R+R the car was only running on one rotor, as i say to most anyone: "if the car runs properly after you touch it, be thankful that it was so kind to you". no matter how thorough you are you will almost always miss something that you couldn't see without putting a hundred parts under a microscope.
an REW/RE swap is $10k
that's putting aside all the BS, getting the parts to make it run properly, budgeting a rebuild for an unknown engine, ECU, fabrication, etc, etc, etc.
it's cheaper to buy a running car than it is to build one. it being your first car, if it runs fine just leave it alone and do some tasteful mods, keep it as a second car or eventually let go of any attachments and buy something built the way you planned and fix that up.
i've tossed $25k into my car since i bought it, does it look like i did? nope. would i get even half back out of it? hell no, and my car is an original TII, not a incompleted swap like everyone else has.
what i always tell everyone is:
write out a list of everything you want to do and prices, once done double the total and that's about how much you will be into it. do the same for the length of time working on the car, except multiply by 3 or 4.
i know what it takes to build a car and i always miss things causing the cost to go higher than expected, because it's an old car and i truly consider these to be restoration projects, even if just dropping an engine into a car. wiring harnesses break, fuel pumps seize from sitting, alternators fall on their face, ignition switches fail in the week while your engine is out, the motor mounts tear as soon as you start pulling the engine out, the clutch is toast even though you were told it only had 5k miles on it.... i could go on for days.
i'm one of the most knowlegable on the FC and on my last engine R+R the car was only running on one rotor, as i say to most anyone: "if the car runs properly after you touch it, be thankful that it was so kind to you". no matter how thorough you are you will almost always miss something that you couldn't see without putting a hundred parts under a microscope.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 11-23-15 at 09:32 AM.
12-08-15, 04:41 PM
#10
a FC 13BT is a $5k swap
an REW/RE swap is $10k
that's putting aside all the BS, getting the parts to make it run properly, budgeting a rebuild for an unknown engine, ECU, fabrication, etc, etc, etc.
it's cheaper to buy a running car than it is to build one. it being your first car, if it runs fine just leave it alone and do some tasteful mods, keep it as a second car or eventually let go of any attachments and buy something built the way you planned and fix that up.
i've tossed $25k into my car since i bought it, does it look like i did? nope. would i get even half back out of it? hell no, and my car is an original TII, not a incompleted swap like everyone else has.
what i always tell everyone is:
write out a list of everything you want to do and prices, once done double the total and that's about how much you will be into it. do the same for the length of time working on the car, except multiply by 3 or 4.
i know what it takes to build a car and i always miss things causing the cost to go higher than expected, because it's an old car and i truly consider these to be restoration projects, even if just dropping an engine into a car. wiring harnesses break, fuel pumps seize from sitting, alternators fall on their face, ignition switches fail in the week while your engine is out, the motor mounts tear as soon as you start pulling the engine out, the clutch is toast even though you were told it only had 5k miles on it.... i could go on for days.
i'm one of the most knowlegable on the FC and on my last engine R+R the car was only running on one rotor, as i say to most anyone: "if the car runs properly after you touch it, be thankful that it was so kind to you". no matter how thorough you are you will almost always miss something that you couldn't see without putting a hundred parts under a microscope.
an REW/RE swap is $10k
that's putting aside all the BS, getting the parts to make it run properly, budgeting a rebuild for an unknown engine, ECU, fabrication, etc, etc, etc.
it's cheaper to buy a running car than it is to build one. it being your first car, if it runs fine just leave it alone and do some tasteful mods, keep it as a second car or eventually let go of any attachments and buy something built the way you planned and fix that up.
i've tossed $25k into my car since i bought it, does it look like i did? nope. would i get even half back out of it? hell no, and my car is an original TII, not a incompleted swap like everyone else has.
what i always tell everyone is:
write out a list of everything you want to do and prices, once done double the total and that's about how much you will be into it. do the same for the length of time working on the car, except multiply by 3 or 4.
i know what it takes to build a car and i always miss things causing the cost to go higher than expected, because it's an old car and i truly consider these to be restoration projects, even if just dropping an engine into a car. wiring harnesses break, fuel pumps seize from sitting, alternators fall on their face, ignition switches fail in the week while your engine is out, the motor mounts tear as soon as you start pulling the engine out, the clutch is toast even though you were told it only had 5k miles on it.... i could go on for days.
i'm one of the most knowlegable on the FC and on my last engine R+R the car was only running on one rotor, as i say to most anyone: "if the car runs properly after you touch it, be thankful that it was so kind to you". no matter how thorough you are you will almost always miss something that you couldn't see without putting a hundred parts under a microscope.
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