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I have a 93 FD. Over the winter I removed the complete rear subframe to do an overhaul of the diff suspension ppf etc. Removing one seized trailing arm damaged the subframe so I bought a second hand one which appeared in great condition. Anyway long story short,
I replaced and upgraded everything, refit all and now one rear wheel is sticking out around 1 inch further than the other. Both sides are set correctly and identically, camber etc all identical. So I thought maybe the subframe could be bent etc. Began to measure points around and all appears to be identical to the opposite side. All the arms are new not bent and same length.....so my question is, could the subframe be out of alignment (too far to the right?) it has 2 locating pins so assumed it didn't need aligning, so does anyone have any idea what this could be....it's really confusing me :/
Measure everything twice to see if you can narrow down what's out of alignment. The subrame itself is fairly self aligning (it may be off millimeters, but not inches)
Measure everything twice to see if you can narrow down what's out of alignment. The subrame itself is fairly self aligning (it may be off millimeters, but not inches)
Thanks for the speedy reply
I did measure everything, maybe I missed something, I will go over it all again meticulously. Both drive axles were pushed in until they clicked, I do remember that on the side that sticks out, the spline shaft didn't push into the wheel hub as nicely as the other side did, however when I torqued down the hub nuts I had the same amount of threads exposed on both sides. I know I've missed something just don't know what :/ I'm just glad the subframe is pretty much self aligning as didn't fancy pulling it out again
check the distance between the inner tripod joint and the differential on both sides. there shouldn't be much of a gap.
Right,
Had the car up yesterday and did the following...
- measured tripod joints to diff, it's fine
- measured point to point in various locations across subframe, fine.
-brake disc to abs ring on axle shaft fine.
- removed knuckle from the side with issue and pressed wheel hub in to make sure it wasn't out a bit, reinstalled everything and same problem.
So just to clarify the issue. If I put the right rear wheel at the most positive it can go it's still sitting at negative camber. If I put the left rear wheel at max negative camber it matches the right wheel. So the left rear can adjust positive and negative as it should. The right rear is always negative regardless of camber bolt position.
I'm using the super now duraluminum lower arms, I removed both of them and checked they are identical which they are. It seems that the right rear arm sits further out that the left rear....which is what's causing the problem but I can't push it further in as bolt is as far back as it goes. This would suggest an issue with the subframe? It is second hand but I've measured it and it seems fine :/ I'm at a loss.
I'm not a suspension expert, but believe all the suspension adjustments (camber, toe, etc) just adjust the angle of the wheel (left/right, in/out). They will not affect the center of the wheel. There's got to be something screwy with either your axle or differential. If it was the differential, you would think that both wheels would be offset equally (if one is out an inch, the other would be in an inch). Therefore, my guess is it's your axle (or any of the components on the axle). That said, it seems you checked that thoroughly (the axle is set into the differential properly and the wheel hub is fully tightened), so i'm scratching my head as well. Go through both the '93 and '94 service manuals to see if there's anything you might have missed. You could also try posting some pics.
I'm not a suspension expert, but believe all the suspension adjustments (camber, toe, etc) just adjust the angle of the wheel (left/right, in/out). They will not affect the center of the wheel. There's got to be something screwy with either your axle or differential. If it was the differential, you would think that both wheels would be offset equally (if one is out an inch, the other would be in an inch). Therefore, my guess is it's your axle (or any of the components on the axle). That said, it seems you checked that thoroughly (the axle is set into the differential properly and the wheel hub is fully tightened), so i'm scratching my head as well. Go through both the '93 and '94 service manuals to see if there's anything you might have missed. You could also try posting some pics.
Thanks TomU. I know it's left me stumped aswel like. I know my way round 3rd gens very well but this is confusing me. I read the FSM page to page, I'm one of these guys that's meticulous about torquing every bolt to spec and doing everything by the book. Hub nut torqued to spec and staked, when pushing the axle in I made sure the c clip opening was facing 12 o'clock and once in have a few pulls to ensure was secure. Let's say for argument sake the axle was not inserted into the diff correctly, the issue still stands that the camber bolt can not physically move further back in the subframe....if there was a gap then yes the drive axle could be preventing the knuckle from being straightened by moving the lower arm in towards the subframe but there isn't.
I should correct myself when I said wheel is sticking out....should of said the camber is negative when the knuckle should be straight. If the lower arm could be moved more into the centre (inwards towards middle of the car) problem would be solved but it can't. Very confusing. Here's a pic of how the car sits bear in mind camber has been set to 0 both sides. The difference is obvious. I'll get some pics up tomorrow of under the car if I get a chance.
I should correct myself when I said wheel is sticking out....should of said the camber is negative when the knuckle should be straight. If the lower arm could be moved more into the centre (inwards towards middle of the car) problem would be solved but it can't.
Got ya. Camber is adjusted by a cam nut that adjusts the I-arm
Do you have that rotated all the way for positive camber (believe it is CCW for the right wheel)? If so, your subframe could be out of whack. Measure the distance from the middle of your differential to the center of that cam on both sides. If they are the same, it's some weird alignment problem that a shop might be able to fix.
I did the same thing you did, pulled the subframe, differential, axles, and also replaced all the bushings and installed new toe links. I barely got it road worthy by eye balling it and took it to a shop that race preps Miata's to tune it.
Got ya. Camber is adjusted by a cam nut that adjusts the I-arm
Do you have that rotated all the way for positive camber (believe it is CCW for the right wheel)? If so, your subframe could be out of whack. Measure the distance from the middle of your differential to the center of that cam on both sides. If they are the same, it's some weird alignment problem that a shop might be able to fix.
I did the same thing you did, pulled the subframe, differential, axles, and also replaced all the bushings and installed new toe links. I barely got it road worthy by eye balling it and took it to a shop that race preps Miata's to tune it.
Yeah that's the one TomU. So for max camber the left wheel bolt will be in the 9 o'clock posi, and the right wheel in the 3oclock posi.
So for simplicity I set both wheels to 0 camber. Dead middle as you can see
And the wheels are positioned how they were in this pic that I posted previous
Now I did manage to find my old factory lower arms and removed the duralumin ones. Seems the super now arms are slightly longer (makes sense I guess as it they are designed to add more camber than factory ones allow). So now I'm thinking.....what if my Rex has always had this issue? Because the factory arms are shorter the wheels both were straight, and since ive never had to adjust to positive camber I've never seen that one side can't until now? I can't see any evidence of car being in an accident....maybe the subframe is a tiny bit off ;/
Still confused but think I'm a suck it up and replace the subframe. I've managed to source a unit from a 99 spec car.
These subframes came with an extra reinforcement bar over the older design. When I fit it I'll report back. If the problem is still there I'll have to accept that's over the 23 years of the cars life, at some point the chassis has been slightly bent or something. Then I'll look at finding aftermarket arms that are adjustable but same length as factory ones like the nagisa auto arms or similar.
Then once drivable take it to a chassis alignment centre and see if they can spot anything. TomU your help has been much appreciated and thanks for taking the time to reply. Let you know how it goes. All the best
Just cuz it's aftermarket, doesn't mean it's better.
That said, you would think both sides would show the same camber at the same setting. The new (and better) subframe should rule out some variables. If you are having the same problem, it's not due to the age of the car. Throw some stock I-arms back on as well (to see if it's the Super Now's)
Just cuz it's aftermarket, doesn't mean it's better.
That said, you would think both sides would show the same camber at the same setting. The new (and better) subframe should rule out some variables. If you are having the same problem, it's not due to the age of the car. Throw some stock I-arms back on as well (to see if it's the Super Now's)
I agree, reason for upgrade is the bushes were shot on the factory arms, and since I got a good deal for the super nows I thought why not let's see what happens
05-19-16, 10:48 AM
