88 turbo II upgrade path ?
05-24-14, 07:05 PM
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88 turbo II upgrade path ?
Hey guys I got a 88 turbo 2 s5 swap.
Confused on what to do next. I got an oil cooler, boost guage, boost controller, AF guage, fuel cut defender, rb dual exhaust ( wanna straight pipe, rb is too quiet) full emmisions delete. That's it...I think. Oh stage 3 clutch. Thanks for any advice guys. I want 350-400hp on a dd.
Confused on what to do next. I got an oil cooler, boost guage, boost controller, AF guage, fuel cut defender, rb dual exhaust ( wanna straight pipe, rb is too quiet) full emmisions delete. That's it...I think. Oh stage 3 clutch. Thanks for any advice guys. I want 350-400hp on a dd.
05-25-14, 12:27 AM
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Get a turbo that will eat puppies and a set of Garden hose injectors and ECU.
Start looking at the build threads that guys have put up and note the parts used to achieve what they are putting out power wise with the car,Honestly it's the best I can tell ya.
Then start spending Wads of cash..
Start looking at the build threads that guys have put up and note the parts used to achieve what they are putting out power wise with the car,Honestly it's the best I can tell ya.
Then start spending Wads of cash..
05-26-14, 02:07 PM
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The upgrade path depends on your goal and budget. You stated that it is a dd, but you don't need that kind of power to drive to the grocery store. What is the purpose of the car (drag racing, drifting, autocrossing, etc.), and did you want to gradually add parts or jump right in and spend a lot of time and money to get a nice setup all at once?
I don't quite understand what "88 turbo 2 s5 swap" means. Is it a S4 or S5 engine? Are you using the Non-Turbo or Turbo transmission, driveshaft, halfshafts, and differential?
As it is right now, you should really get an upgraded fuel pump. I hope that you did not replace the excellent OEM oil cooler with an aftermarket oil cooler. Also, "stage 3" clutch doesn't mean anything unless you include the brand name.
I don't quite understand what "88 turbo 2 s5 swap" means. Is it a S4 or S5 engine? Are you using the Non-Turbo or Turbo transmission, driveshaft, halfshafts, and differential?
As it is right now, you should really get an upgraded fuel pump. I hope that you did not replace the excellent OEM oil cooler with an aftermarket oil cooler. Also, "stage 3" clutch doesn't mean anything unless you include the brand name.
05-26-14, 02:57 PM
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It had a s4 motor and I swapped in the s5 motor. Im only 18 and I make **** money. I was gonna get a rb oil adapter where I can hook up gauges. Will a walbro 255 work? And what size injection should I go up to? 720? What about fuel rail. And I want my car to put 350whp reliability and all I do is back road driving no highways or **** like that. Thanks for reply btw
05-26-14, 05:42 PM
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its not as easy as plopping on [parts and expecting the car to be "bigger and better".
If you upgrade the injectors then you must upgrade the ECU.,
Fuel pump,regulator etc.
Turbo?..new ECU for sure.
If you are "only 18 and make **** Money" then think about your Goals for this car wisely.
This Car scene can suck the living **** out of your bank account,and when you are 18 and gotta eat,I think that takes a little money managing.
Don't just go out and buy a boat load of parts and try to build up a "super car ".It won't turn out well..trust me,been there..still there..,recouperating.
If you upgrade the injectors then you must upgrade the ECU.,
Fuel pump,regulator etc.
Turbo?..new ECU for sure.
If you are "only 18 and make **** Money" then think about your Goals for this car wisely.
This Car scene can suck the living **** out of your bank account,and when you are 18 and gotta eat,I think that takes a little money managing.
Don't just go out and buy a boat load of parts and try to build up a "super car ".It won't turn out well..trust me,been there..still there..,recouperating.
05-26-14, 07:29 PM
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My car is everything to me like you have no idea....well im sure you do but Im just worried it will blow one day so can we change this thread to proper maintenance and reliability mods ?
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05-26-14, 10:59 PM
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If we change the thread we may as well delete it all together and all that was said.
And as far as Proper reliability and maintenance,well there are Tons of threads on that subject as it has been covered more times than a "wet spot" on a Kardashian bed.
And as far as Proper reliability and maintenance,well there are Tons of threads on that subject as it has been covered more times than a "wet spot" on a Kardashian bed.
05-26-14, 11:01 PM
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OK, I recommend that you go to your User CP, Edit Your Details, and change 1988 RX-7 turbo II to 1988 Turbo II w/S5 engine or something like that. Also, you could add a Signature with your car's details so that members don't need to click on your profile to see what kind of car you have.
Lucky you, I am a finance guy. Cars are money pits. You will be better off in the long run if you spend the bulk of your money on a good education that will get you a better job so that you can buy better and better goodies for your car over the years. The education does not necessarily mean college, as tech schools and on the job training (internships, etc.) are also good paths to success. Starting your own business is also a good use of your time and money. For now I recommend that you stick with the current power level because it is stupid to make a lot of power and get 8 mpg for no reason other than its cool. Your car is badass right now as it is, so just keep it that way until you get a good job. Keep the RB exhaust, as it is the top of the line and will last a very long time. Let the Honda guys make noise with their wanna-be sports cars.
I highly recommend stashing money in a bank account as an emergency fund for when your car breaks. Even though your car is built very well, it is still 26 years old. I guarantee you that something major will break sooner or later, most likely sooner. You don't want to throw all your money into shiny parts and then end up with a lawn ornament because you don't have any money left to fix something vital. I recommend at least $2,000 in the bank before you buy anything that you don't really need.
Not necessary. Don't bother.
The stock pump will work OK up to about 10psi boost. If you are within this range, then I would just stick with the stock pump until it fails from old age. The two most popular replacement fuel pumps are the Walbro 255LPH and the Bosch 044.
RX-7 Store - Fuel Pumps
Keep what you have until you decide to upgrade the ECU. Each ECU has its own likes and dislikes for fuel injectors, so they need to be matched. The stock ECU works best with the stock injectors, and your car will run like crap if you use larger injectors without an upgraded ECU or an aftermarket fuel control unit that is tuned appropriately.
The cheapest ECU upgrade is the Rtek chip, so you may want to browse through the options for future planning. We also have an Rtek subforum. I prefer a full standalone EMS (Haltech, Electromotive, Wolf, etc.), but the Rtek chips are a nice low-budget upgrade that are easy to install and the Stage 1 chips require no tuning if you use the appropriate fuel injectors. With any ECU upgrade the fuel cut defender is no longer needed, so you can sell it off to recapture some money.
Rtek7 ECU Upgrade Detailed Information
Rtek Forum - RX7Club.com
Another budget upgrade is a BNR hybrid turbo. Like the Rtek chips, they are not optimal, but they are a good low-budget upgrade. Also, you can just get a stock rebuild if you like. Any turbo upgrade needs to be paired with an appropriate ECU and fuel system upgrade, and sometimes even more mods (larger radiator, larger intercooler, upgraded clutch pack, etc.) so keep that in mind when shopping.
BNR Supercars - Bryan Nickell's Rotary Supercars - Mazda RX-7 2nd Generation (1987-1991)
You don't need an aftermarket fuel rail unless you want to use a different style of fuel injector or you want to get rid of the on-rail pulsation damper.
First of all, download a copy of the free factory service manual (FSM). Get both the 1988 and 1989 FSM since your car is a mix. The other 2nd Gen stuff is also good to download if you have the storage space. If you want to read more about rotary engines, then also download the Kenichi Yamamoto books.
Foxed.ca - Mazda RX-7 Manuals
The maintenance schedule is in the front of the FSM in Chapter 0. Follow the Normal schedule if you just drive to and from work or school, or follow the Unique schedule if you drive your car pretty hard.
Typical Turbo II problem areas:
How To Buy An '86-'92 Turbo RX-7
Bookmark these help pages:
Aaron Cake - The Second Generation Mazda RX-7
FC3S Pro v2.0:* Site Map
Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.
Mazdatrix - FAQ's and How-to's
Racing Beat - Rotary Tech Tips
Here is what I normally do when I buy a used S4 RX-7, assuming that the parts need to be replaced (which they usually do).
- New Optima Redtop battery with quick-disconnect marine terminals
- Upgrade to S5 stereo surround and heater vents
- Aftermarket stereo and power antenna relay
- New fuel pulsation damper, fuel filter, and SAE 30R9 fuel lines
- Fuel injectors cleaned and "rebuilt" by Witchhunter, new manifold gasket installed on reinstallation
- New oil filter pedestal O-rings (two each)
- New fan belts, coolant, thermostat, hoses, spark plugs, and plug wires
- Koyo all-aluminum radiator
- Red Line synthetic oil in the transmission and differential, Castrol GTX oil in the engine, Mazda oil filter, Fumoto F-106 oil drain valve
- New brake hardware kit (W-springs and liners), Mazdatrix DOT stainless steel brake lines, Castrol Advanced Performance brake fluid
The oil filter pedestal O-rings should be replaced if you are not sure how old they are. They tend to crack and leak oil on the lower heater hose, causing a pinhole leak that is really annoying and extremely difficult to diagnose. To add insult to injury, a replacement hose isn't cheap. The O-rings are part 9954-10-1601 (10-1601-9954 @ Mazdatrix), and two are needed.
The Fumoto F-106 (non-nipple) oil drain valve is not necessary, but it makes changing the oil sooooo much easier. I assume the new short nipple model would probably work too, but I have not tried one yet to verify. It is a nice low-budget birthday/Christmas present that you can beg from your friends and family.
Fumoto Valve | Qwik Valve™
If you want to order Mazda parts by mail order, then contact:
Ray Crowe
Malloy Mazda
(703) 490-5296
HMKParts@aol.com
Hmmm, what else...
- Always use distilled water with the antifreeze. It is about $1 per gallon at your local grocery store or drug store, sold in the section with the drinking water. See the FSM for the proper mixing ratio for your local weather conditions.
- Use Top Tier gas so that you don't need to buy any of that expensive "fuel system cleaning" snake oil. Your engine is rated for Regular unleaded if you stick to the stock boost level of about 8 psi, otherwise you should probably use higher octane to keep the engine from blowing up. Contrary to slick advertising, the lower octane is typically better for power and economy as long as it doesn't cause the engine to knock. Avoid gas that is more than 10% ethanol.
Top Tier Gasoline
- Lastly and most importantly, use a torque wrench so you don't ruin expensive parts when working on your car. You can probably borrow one for free from your local generic auto parts store (AutoZone, Advance, O'Reilly, etc.). The torque values are in Chapter 30 of the FSM.
I like the threads that start off with "I want a billion horsepower" and end up with "... oh wait, I'm broke, so what can I do to keep my car running on a tight budget?".
Lucky you, I am a finance guy. Cars are money pits. You will be better off in the long run if you spend the bulk of your money on a good education that will get you a better job so that you can buy better and better goodies for your car over the years. The education does not necessarily mean college, as tech schools and on the job training (internships, etc.) are also good paths to success. Starting your own business is also a good use of your time and money. For now I recommend that you stick with the current power level because it is stupid to make a lot of power and get 8 mpg for no reason other than its cool. Your car is badass right now as it is, so just keep it that way until you get a good job. Keep the RB exhaust, as it is the top of the line and will last a very long time. Let the Honda guys make noise with their wanna-be sports cars.
I highly recommend stashing money in a bank account as an emergency fund for when your car breaks. Even though your car is built very well, it is still 26 years old. I guarantee you that something major will break sooner or later, most likely sooner. You don't want to throw all your money into shiny parts and then end up with a lawn ornament because you don't have any money left to fix something vital. I recommend at least $2,000 in the bank before you buy anything that you don't really need.
Not necessary. Don't bother.
The stock pump will work OK up to about 10psi boost. If you are within this range, then I would just stick with the stock pump until it fails from old age. The two most popular replacement fuel pumps are the Walbro 255LPH and the Bosch 044.
RX-7 Store - Fuel Pumps
Keep what you have until you decide to upgrade the ECU. Each ECU has its own likes and dislikes for fuel injectors, so they need to be matched. The stock ECU works best with the stock injectors, and your car will run like crap if you use larger injectors without an upgraded ECU or an aftermarket fuel control unit that is tuned appropriately.
The cheapest ECU upgrade is the Rtek chip, so you may want to browse through the options for future planning. We also have an Rtek subforum. I prefer a full standalone EMS (Haltech, Electromotive, Wolf, etc.), but the Rtek chips are a nice low-budget upgrade that are easy to install and the Stage 1 chips require no tuning if you use the appropriate fuel injectors. With any ECU upgrade the fuel cut defender is no longer needed, so you can sell it off to recapture some money.
Rtek7 ECU Upgrade Detailed Information
Rtek Forum - RX7Club.com
Another budget upgrade is a BNR hybrid turbo. Like the Rtek chips, they are not optimal, but they are a good low-budget upgrade. Also, you can just get a stock rebuild if you like. Any turbo upgrade needs to be paired with an appropriate ECU and fuel system upgrade, and sometimes even more mods (larger radiator, larger intercooler, upgraded clutch pack, etc.) so keep that in mind when shopping.
BNR Supercars - Bryan Nickell's Rotary Supercars - Mazda RX-7 2nd Generation (1987-1991)
You don't need an aftermarket fuel rail unless you want to use a different style of fuel injector or you want to get rid of the on-rail pulsation damper.
Foxed.ca - Mazda RX-7 Manuals
The maintenance schedule is in the front of the FSM in Chapter 0. Follow the Normal schedule if you just drive to and from work or school, or follow the Unique schedule if you drive your car pretty hard.
Typical Turbo II problem areas:
How To Buy An '86-'92 Turbo RX-7
Bookmark these help pages:
Aaron Cake - The Second Generation Mazda RX-7
FC3S Pro v2.0:* Site Map
Rotary Resurrection home of the budget rebuild.
Mazdatrix - FAQ's and How-to's
Racing Beat - Rotary Tech Tips
Here is what I normally do when I buy a used S4 RX-7, assuming that the parts need to be replaced (which they usually do).
- New Optima Redtop battery with quick-disconnect marine terminals
- Upgrade to S5 stereo surround and heater vents
- Aftermarket stereo and power antenna relay
- New fuel pulsation damper, fuel filter, and SAE 30R9 fuel lines
- Fuel injectors cleaned and "rebuilt" by Witchhunter, new manifold gasket installed on reinstallation
- New oil filter pedestal O-rings (two each)
- New fan belts, coolant, thermostat, hoses, spark plugs, and plug wires
- Koyo all-aluminum radiator
- Red Line synthetic oil in the transmission and differential, Castrol GTX oil in the engine, Mazda oil filter, Fumoto F-106 oil drain valve
- New brake hardware kit (W-springs and liners), Mazdatrix DOT stainless steel brake lines, Castrol Advanced Performance brake fluid
The oil filter pedestal O-rings should be replaced if you are not sure how old they are. They tend to crack and leak oil on the lower heater hose, causing a pinhole leak that is really annoying and extremely difficult to diagnose. To add insult to injury, a replacement hose isn't cheap. The O-rings are part 9954-10-1601 (10-1601-9954 @ Mazdatrix), and two are needed.
The Fumoto F-106 (non-nipple) oil drain valve is not necessary, but it makes changing the oil sooooo much easier. I assume the new short nipple model would probably work too, but I have not tried one yet to verify. It is a nice low-budget birthday/Christmas present that you can beg from your friends and family.
Fumoto Valve | Qwik Valve™
If you want to order Mazda parts by mail order, then contact:
Ray Crowe
Malloy Mazda
(703) 490-5296
HMKParts@aol.com
Hmmm, what else...
- Always use distilled water with the antifreeze. It is about $1 per gallon at your local grocery store or drug store, sold in the section with the drinking water. See the FSM for the proper mixing ratio for your local weather conditions.
- Use Top Tier gas so that you don't need to buy any of that expensive "fuel system cleaning" snake oil. Your engine is rated for Regular unleaded if you stick to the stock boost level of about 8 psi, otherwise you should probably use higher octane to keep the engine from blowing up. Contrary to slick advertising, the lower octane is typically better for power and economy as long as it doesn't cause the engine to knock. Avoid gas that is more than 10% ethanol.
Top Tier Gasoline
- Lastly and most importantly, use a torque wrench so you don't ruin expensive parts when working on your car. You can probably borrow one for free from your local generic auto parts store (AutoZone, Advance, O'Reilly, etc.). The torque values are in Chapter 30 of the FSM.
I like the threads that start off with "I want a billion horsepower" and end up with "... oh wait, I'm broke, so what can I do to keep my car running on a tight budget?".
05-26-14, 11:16 PM
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^ well thanks man. You awnsered all my questions . I live in bfe small town in Ohio so theres no one to talk to HURR DURR U MEAN TO TELL ME DEM DER CARS RUN ON TRIANGLES BS THAT AIN'T MEXICAN
thanks again guys haha
But last questions....I love the sounds of rotarys and for myself not to annoy other people I think ill straight pipe. It just sounds so awesome!
thanks again guys haha
But last questions....I love the sounds of rotarys and for myself not to annoy other people I think ill straight pipe. It just sounds so awesome!
05-27-14, 07:36 AM
#11
05-27-14, 09:08 PM
#12
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I'm almost always in a good mood. The difference is that he has the maturity and intelligence to realize that I am attempting to help him.
Dang, does this mean I'm not getting a package this time? No matter, soon enough there will be another noob coming along who is not as bright as this guy. Just watch, I'm gonna go for both "hater" and "cyberbully" on the next one. 
05-27-14, 10:23 PM
#13
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You sort of remind me of a real screwed up alternator with a bad regulator connection..lol!.......14.5........8.0,.........16 !!..hahha!..
Me?.I'm just bad gas..lol!
Me?.I'm just bad gas..lol!
05-29-14, 10:23 AM
#14
In addition to all that was mentioned above, I'd like to offer a few simple, straightforward mods which I like to call The ABCs of Electrical Mods: Alternator, Battery & Cables.
Alternator:
Since you said you've got a S5T2 swap in a S4T2, you have an alternator that is marginally better than overworked. Most owners upgrade to a 100 Amp FD Alternator to eliminate electrical issues. But since FD ones tend to be slightly pricey (Don't get one from Autozone or another parts store!), my recommendation is to go straight to the 130 Amp Taurus Alternator. It does take some fabrication, just a couple of flat brackets with two 3/8" holes drilled about 1.5" apart and some washers so everything lines up, but it's a small price to pay to have an alternator that you'll never be able to overwork. Plus, 3.8L 92-95 Taurus/Sable/Windstars are common at the junkyard and I've only seen Ford-branded alternators there. You'll need to upgrade the output cable to 4awg too.
Battery:
A good battery pays for itself. A shitty Autozone battery keeps you tethered to Autozone because of its warranty. I personally recommend a Deka Intimidator AGM battery based on both the experience of Aaron Cake and myself. $150 for one through Remybattery.com is money well spent. I've run mine into the ground at least 20 times and it keeps coming back up with a simple 2/10/50amp walmart charger. Add in some Marine Battery Terminals and you're golden.
Cables:
Chances are that yours are original and in the same questionable shape mine were before my 20B conversion. Replace them with 4awg cable per this article:
Proper RX-7 Grounding Procedures
Here are the lengths you'll need, with a little extra to route them clean and tidy.
Battery Positive to Starter: 48"
Battery Negative to Main Ground: 24"
Main Ground to Starter Ground: 24"
Battery Positive to Alternator: 36"
Since you'll be replacing the Alternator cable, you'll need to extract all of the cables and 'divorce' the old Alternator cable from the Fuse box cable. Cut the alternator/fuse box cable at the staple and give the remaining fuse box cable a ring terminal to attach to the positive battery terminal. With this arrangement, you'll have 3 cable on the positive terminal, which the normal cheapie terminals can't handle. This is why I recommend Marine Battery Terminals such as these:
Lynx/Marine battery terminal (06070) | Battery Terminal End and Adapter | AutoZone.com
Alternator:
Since you said you've got a S5T2 swap in a S4T2, you have an alternator that is marginally better than overworked. Most owners upgrade to a 100 Amp FD Alternator to eliminate electrical issues. But since FD ones tend to be slightly pricey (Don't get one from Autozone or another parts store!), my recommendation is to go straight to the 130 Amp Taurus Alternator. It does take some fabrication, just a couple of flat brackets with two 3/8" holes drilled about 1.5" apart and some washers so everything lines up, but it's a small price to pay to have an alternator that you'll never be able to overwork. Plus, 3.8L 92-95 Taurus/Sable/Windstars are common at the junkyard and I've only seen Ford-branded alternators there. You'll need to upgrade the output cable to 4awg too.
Battery:
A good battery pays for itself. A shitty Autozone battery keeps you tethered to Autozone because of its warranty. I personally recommend a Deka Intimidator AGM battery based on both the experience of Aaron Cake and myself. $150 for one through Remybattery.com is money well spent. I've run mine into the ground at least 20 times and it keeps coming back up with a simple 2/10/50amp walmart charger. Add in some Marine Battery Terminals and you're golden.
Cables:
Chances are that yours are original and in the same questionable shape mine were before my 20B conversion. Replace them with 4awg cable per this article:
Proper RX-7 Grounding Procedures
Here are the lengths you'll need, with a little extra to route them clean and tidy.
Battery Positive to Starter: 48"
Battery Negative to Main Ground: 24"
Main Ground to Starter Ground: 24"
Battery Positive to Alternator: 36"
Since you'll be replacing the Alternator cable, you'll need to extract all of the cables and 'divorce' the old Alternator cable from the Fuse box cable. Cut the alternator/fuse box cable at the staple and give the remaining fuse box cable a ring terminal to attach to the positive battery terminal. With this arrangement, you'll have 3 cable on the positive terminal, which the normal cheapie terminals can't handle. This is why I recommend Marine Battery Terminals such as these:
Lynx/Marine battery terminal (06070) | Battery Terminal End and Adapter | AutoZone.com
05-29-14, 08:27 PM
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I have terrible idle problems when i start car if i let the clutch out the car dies. My idle is terrible. Its only got 70k on the engine. And the boost guage says it goes up to 10 then down to 8ish while under wot. Boost leak?
05-30-14, 11:46 AM
#16
Values from the stock gauge are only a relative reading (and go out the window with a Fuel Cut Defender), so I would recommend getting another boost gauge to have something solid & reliable. $20 at Harbor Freight is a cheap way of getting reliable readings.
If your idle is searching, that does sound like a vacuum leak. Try spraying some brake cleaner at various parts of the UIM and LIM. If the idle changes noticeably, you've found a leak. On my 20B, the idle was a tad low and and jumped about 100rpm when I did this. Found the leak where the UIM met the Throttle Body. Turns out I had a FD gasket there instead of a Cosmo one. $5 at Advance Auto for some gasket material, a hammer and 30 minutes later, no more leak!
If your idle is searching, that does sound like a vacuum leak. Try spraying some brake cleaner at various parts of the UIM and LIM. If the idle changes noticeably, you've found a leak. On my 20B, the idle was a tad low and and jumped about 100rpm when I did this. Found the leak where the UIM met the Throttle Body. Turns out I had a FD gasket there instead of a Cosmo one. $5 at Advance Auto for some gasket material, a hammer and 30 minutes later, no more leak!
07-04-14, 11:36 PM
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These guys all gave a lot of great info. Ive just got a link for you to look over. Lol still, theres some good tid bits of info in here, check it out. Hopefully it helps.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FM2W/power.htm
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/FM2W/power.htm
