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Naturally Aspirated Performance ForumDiscussion of naturally-aspirated rotary performance. No Power Adders, only pure rotary power!
From the "12A" to the "RENESIS" and beyond.
Make sure that the springs are on the correct sides of the rotors
How can i tell which is the correct side? They are colored correct? Remember seeing something of that nature in one of the you tube videos (Aarons). Will pull them and check.
Possibly just need to clean up the ports/edges everywhere and see what happens.
Try cleaning them up its a risk also one of your side housings looks like it is pitted . It might just be rotor staining but if it's putted I would get rid of it . The r/a looks correct the rotors should have a rn fn in to combustion tubs.
That closing line to the corner you've drawn in white needs to be an ever increasing radius with the tangent of the radius following your closing line and the large part of the radius at the opening edge. You cant pull that port side wall angle out to do it because you will hit water.
I could have been wrong about the oil seal track, I was looking at a picture.
Tony, that pic was stolen off the internet. But shows well what probably happened to my seal.
At this point, nothing can hurt to try. Gonna just clean up all ports and slap it back together. If results are promising, I will break back down and use better parts.
Need a picture of the oil loop line modification. All photos are down.
Ive read all about how to do it, I just want to see a picture.
Thanks.
Edit: Never mind. Found a good picture.
I dont think its something I would need. I can see it for sustained high rpm use, but not shifting gear bursts. After looking over the oil feed to the front gear, it would be overkill and extra complications.
Did the front n rear oil pres. reg. mods.
Tear-dropped the eccentric shaft.
Did the oil jets (weber 200's)
Hogged out the oil pump.
Bell mouthed the oil pickup.
That should be enough.
Spent another +/- $100.00 on solid side seals (& rx8 springs), as two of the keyhole types where cracked.
Yes. Cleaned up all ports, as they were pretty poorly done. Also smoothed the upper edge so there is no chance of sharp contact with a side seal.
I will post pics in a few days, just crazy with customer work right now!
Opened up everything just a bit bigger, and fully extended the secondary bridges.
Also removed the exhaust sleeves and smoothed the port. I did not open the exhaust cylinder port any larger, but beveled the closing edge, as thats what probably broke the apex seal. The exhaust ports are now exactly the same size as the racing beat header, so I dont know what people are talking about when they say not to remove them due to turbulence. Its a straight shot directly into the header now.
The racing beat intake was not ported at all! No wonder why I was having such a hard time tuning!
If I really had a broken side seal the entire time I was driving, and had this crappy port job, this rebuild should yield good results, as it was pretty dang quick as it was.
Im waiting for the air bleeds to arrive. Thats whats holding me up right now. Should be in today!
Ended up doing the oil loop line. I was not going to do it because I could not find an oil pedestal adapter that had clean/filtered oil out lines. Pineapple racing to the rescue! They're adapter has 3 clean oil, and 1 dirty oil ports. I also kept the used bearings as many people said they are not worn enough to change, and putting in the fresh ones will limit oiling capabilities, and Id have to break them in. Boring... Hurry up air bleeds!!!!
Sounds like you're going to drive it hard so i would recommend you increase oil pressure -mod rear reg or tall 13b REW reg) This is a no brainer if the engine is apart tbh.
And 3 window main bearings also, you will have to cut the groove on the inside of the stationary gear, and some extra clearance on them. (fwiw RX8 crank is taper ground on the rear main bearing area to allow for some flex & higher rpm).
Mazdatrix have the 3 window bearing & gear assembly, not sure if they sell the brg seperately. If you want to do the front also you may need to cut the slots in the brg and gear yourself. https://www.mazdatrix.com/getprice.asp?partnum=10012
Works excellent except for the hylomar. It kinda gaskets itself in the syringe, and when you press it hard, it blows its load all over. Easier just to dab right out of the tube.
Gotta shovel/plow my big *** driveway, so hopefully I'll be back at it this afternoon!
Unfortunately, when I turn the engine manually, the front cylinders compression is a good bit more pronounced than the rear (the originally offending one). I cant see what could have gone wrong, but the engine is back in the car, so I will check compression tonight.
Hopefully is something dumb like, the front housing has more oil in it than the rear.
Hopefully...
Edit: As Im looking at the picture... maybe its a loose spark plug!
With a little 2 stroke down the carb, it fired up.
Ran it though a couple heat cycles, and took it for a spin. All is well, except the need to re-tune. Can def. feel the more air/less fuel, as the afr is showing it.
Having a hot start problem now.
Will start cold on 1 pump of the pedal, but any kind of hot start is extremely labored.
Sometimes it will start, sometimes not. Definitely depends on the battery. Ive been doing a lot of starting and little driving, so Im sure its wearing down. If I put a heavy duty charger up to it, it spins quickly and starts eventually. Battery is a optima red top, but is 6 yrs old now. It lives on a trickle charger when the car is not in use. Its plugged in almost all week. It never had a problem, and it never runs down unexpectedly. I have left it off the charger for a month, and it started it right up.
Have to hold the pedal to the floor, and crank for at least 10 seconds before it even beings to show life.
Im damn sure timing is correct. And its only hot start. Went out this morning, and it fired right up.
Verified the key way is at the 9 o'clock position. Marked my pulley at -20-15-10-5,0,5,10,15,20,25,30.
Distributor went in correctly, adjusting for its movement sliding onto the lower gear.
Oh, and unfortunately the smoking is the same as before!!!!! Must be that oil control ring, and the dumb mf'er ported too far inwards! Why would you even f*cking chance it! Assh0le.
Heavy smoke upon start up, at the higher end of moderate acceleraton, and light haze almost all the time
The rear cylinder plugs are always wet. I did swap the old ones for new rx8 plugs, with no change. I did not want to use the rx8 plugs till I was fully tuned. They,re too expensive to foul out!
The smoke is not a deal breaker, as this is a weekend car, but it has to start when I go get gas!
Any ideas?
Please don't say better battery, as it still takes many seconds of cranking till I even get sputtering.
Rotaries naturally have low cranking compression and one piece carbon seals exacerbate this issue as they lacking the triangular 'corner' piece of the apex seal that can expand outwards to better seal the chamber. Have you compression tested motor since rebuild?
Are the fuel bowls vented? Could be drawing fuel in and flooding after shut off.
What condition is the starter in?
A little ATF down the carb will build compression momentarily and help starting.
(could try a new battery too, i know, i know - just saying)
I compression tested last night with even results of 65ish psi on all faces.
I know thats on the lower end of the scale. Im hoping it just needs to be run/beaten on till the: a -1 new apex seal, b - all new corner seals, c - 1 new side seal, breaks in.
Starter is new with the rebuild of the engine a few years ago. The engine sat, and was an unfinished project of the previous owner.
I believe the carb is vented, as I never had problems before. But I am not a carb guy by any means. It is an eledlebrock avs 650.
I am going to cold compression test the car tonight. I know that doesnt mean much as far as engine health, but it will hopefully give me a baseline/difference between hot and cold. I would imagine cold starting would have less compression to work with. But I am reading differently with a rotary engine. How is that possible? Heat causes expansion, expansion helps compression right?
I guess I will just have to beat on it. Im so sad...
I will rig up a oil injector to start the car if i have to
I just fear taking it out to break it in, and stall it! Then what!!! I always have a bottle of 2 stroke in the car, so as long as the battery holds out, I should be fine.
I was hoping a lightweight battery was in my future. I guess not!
All the seals were within spec, and were new when the po built the engine. They have approx, 500 miles of driving time. Almost no wear on any of the seals.
aluminum housings and cast iron rotors
^ That makes sense, but all the seals are on springs. I dont know, its beyond me
I have alot of snowy weather/salty roads, so this is going to be sitting for a bit.
12-22-15, 05:48 PM
IMG_1558 by thomas telesco, on Flickr
IMG_1559 by thomas telesco, on Flickr
IMG_1560 by thomas telesco, on Flickr
IMG_1561 by thomas telesco, on Flickr