Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

I planned on doing a turbo project but I changed my mind and decided to do a Fuel injected throttle body setup.
I have a street port s4 13b.
What injectors should I use?
Looking for a IDA setup and I see a couple different places for throttle bodies, anyone the best or best price?
What ECU should I run? Looking to use a crank angle sensor too.
What will the fuel pressure that I need be?
Thank you!

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Keep it simple with fuel. Leave your current injectors in at the current fuel pressure. Any ecu aside from an RTEK will work. If I were you, I'd get the ecu first and get it running. After you've worked that out, then I'd move on to an ITB project.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

take heed. this is sound advice.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

The engine is currently powered by a dellarto DCOE carb that won't run right because of missing internal parts. :/ All I have from the fuel injected system is the fuel injectors themselves.
Should have mentioned that.
It can't be that bad, can it?

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

What kind of ignition coils should I use also.
I'm certain that I want to run this setup.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

http://www.injectionperfection.com.au/component/option,com_marketplace/page,show_ad/catid,6/adid,122/Itemid,76/
Will that be fine?
It also looks like the stock fc injectors will fit for now until I go with something bigger. Front what it looks like I will need fuel rails and a couple other things but looks pretty sound.
Opinions?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

if you have a carbie that is broken and you have no intention of ever fixing it, then you can use it as a throttle body. it would require more fabrication than any of the ITB kits, but shouldn't be a huge deal.

by the way, just for clarity which is it? Dell'Orto DHLA or Weber DCOE? it really doesn't matter for the thread, but i know Dell parts are hard to find and if you're interested in fixing it, but just didn't know where to look for parts, then you can get help.

if you simply WANT to buy a throttle body system/kit, then the one you linked seems fine. in addition, you have offerings from Borla (formerly TWM), Fuji Racing, Jenvey and a few others. do your research.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

My apologies.
It is a Dell'Orto DHLA. The parts are hard to find and the story behind it is a little hard to explain but a friend of mine did some body work for me and I didn't have the cash at the time so I gave him the carb. :/
Pretty much I own nothing to power the car. lol
I'm trying to do my research and I have come across many build threads with lots of pictures but not much information as to what parts are being used and where are they getting them. I did read the 3 page thread here in the NA performance section about ITB and it was very informative. So I'm trying to find out what I can but I need a boost in my help as to what I need to be looking for.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

whether they show them or not, many of the places that sell the TBs also sell a bolt-on rail and TPS for them. it has been my experience so far that they are pretty pricey though. just take some time when you go to the sites and look.

some of them may or may not have manifolds available, but either way, manifolds are pretty easy to find from all kinds of sources at all kinds of prices. i will assume you're looking for a manifold, too. if you're not, then disregard and move on.

you have many options for injectors to run your engine. however, i don't see why you'd need anything more than the stock ones or maybe some Rx-8 secondaries if you want an improved spray pattern.

things like fuel pump, pressure regulator and the gauge are universal - available just about anywhere.

you should probably wait until you decide on your EMS before you shop for sensors. from what i've read, some of them require (or at least prefer) certain specific sensors and therefore it makes sense to find out what you need before you buy anything.

putting one of these setups together is not cheap, so you need to be VERY sure you have the funds up front or the time to wait before you commit to it.

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

^agreed. I find that a good general rule of thumb for an in-depth project is to try and think and plan out as much as you can for needed parts/cost for the project and then double it. There is a difference to making it work and making it work well. For now, make sure you have at least $1-2k that you can allocate to parts/mistakes/tuning costs before you choose to go down this path. Figure out what management you want to run and then buy sensors to work with it (a nice thing about Haltech's, for example, is that they are based around "dime-a-dozen" OE GM sensors that can be found anywhere and for a reasonable price).


Next, are the main "hard" parts. You will need an intake manifold, throttle body, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel injectors, CAS/Trigger wheel, and Coils/Coil packs, (and hopefully a worthwhile exhaust). Borla/TWM (2900 series) seems to be the most cost effective weber based throttle body (but its a DCO/DHLA based flange (IE Side draft, not IDA/downdraft). For coils,depending on ECU you choose to run, you could use stock FC/FD coils and MSD's, or you could use AEM/Mercury Marine IGN-1A "smart" coils to simplify things (search C.Ludwig on the forums)

Next you will need to figure out the "small" things like wiring, fuel plumbing (line and fittings), fuel pressure specs, induction plumbing/filtration, and the Big "small" thing.... Tuning

overall, planning will be your best friend in this project. If you try to plan, sort out, design, and price out each and every little piece you can think of needing in the project, you can minimalize total down time of the car and ultimately finish quicker AND cheaper than if you just jump into it and start tearing everything apart and try to piece it back together

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

The car can be down for quite a while and I won't miss it.
I already have the Fc injectors and the fuel pressure regulator.
My exhaust is a racing beat header and all that fun stuff.
My intake manifold I can make myself. I found the flange for the engine and the TB.
I've heard Haltech is good, what series should I use?
Coils I'm sure I can dig something up in my area.
I already have the racing beat side draft setup so I can keep what I already have and go with that. :/ Haven't decided.
I've got Rotary Performance and Steve Kan in my area so I should be fine with wiring.
I guess the only thing stopping me so far is what ecu to use.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

Now the Rx8 secondary injectors, can I use them if I do a side draft setup as the primary injectors?
I looked at Borla and I'm guessing I would need part number 202015.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

if Haltech is what you want, i've been reading good things about the PS1000 so far. however, your best move would be to poke around the Haltech forum and see what people that know them and live with them have to say.

i was saying use 4 secondary injectors. i specified the Rx-8 secondaries because the S1 Rx-8 (more common to find than the S2) uses two different sizes and if you'd be interested in looking for them, you would NEED to know that. all in all, the 8 used a few different sizes of injectors throughout the model run. however, the primaries would probably be too small to safely run your engine unless you planned to run a similarly staggered setup.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

So I looked into the Borla 2900 series and it only used two injectors.
I'm pretty close to a lot of people in my area and stock injectors are easy to come by especially the rx8 ones so I was happy that you mentioned them.
I shall now go live in the ECU section of the forum. I shall return!!! lol

peejay

I just acquired a 48 DHLA and it doesn't appear that parts are any harder to find than Weber. Everything is mail order for either one, in any case.

If it were my project, and the car was already carbureted, meaning running on a distributor, I'd do fuel-only first and get that running well, and only then switch to ignition control. If even necessary. I've been running fuel-only since 2008 (really, since 1998) and the only real issue I have is that when I run it over 8000rpm for very long the distributor cap needs to have the terminals scraped so the trailing ignition works well. And bridge ports seem to get their idle and low-load spark from trailing because you can feel when the cap is worn out and it barely runs at all with the trailing disconnected. (This with MSD doing direct fire on the leading)

Hell, you could probably do it right now with any flavor of Megasquirt, a GSL-SE fuel rail or a FC primary rail and an external regulator, EFI fuel pump, and a pair of injectors of at least 65lb/hr / 680cc. I'm on two 680cc injectors and making around 230hp, you're not going to be making that much horsepower. They were plenty fine for the various street port/stock port engines I ran with this same setup.

The TPS would be tricky but MS/Extra firmware will do MAP-based acceleration enrichment, this is how the BMW plug-n-play guys do it.

In truth it would be easier still to just find a S4 intake manifold and throw it on, you don't NEED ignition control right away.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

Thank you for the information.
I don't mean to be stubborn but like I said I was planning to do a turbo swap on the car so I do have some of the efi parts from a t2 motor, I acquired 6 port na stuff like the injectors along the way through friends, and I no longer own the carburetor that's on the car. The carburetor is being sold off in the future for my friend to fund his own project. It is what it is. I've got the exhaust already, I've got the manifolds for a side draft setup so that's not a big deal but if necessary I can make my own manifold. Really the only thing I have no experience with is aftermarket ecu's. Fuel rails can be made so that's not a big deal either.
Like I said I can have this car sit for a while and I can throw money at it little by little.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

You only need two injectors for an NA streetport. A pair of 850s should cover any amount of power you can make. Best case, you would need a pair of 1000s, but I highly doubt it. By using just two injectors you can eliminate the need to stage them and any difficulties associated with tuning the staging. Less parts, less plumbing, less work.

That said you could either leave the two injectors on the center iron or place them in the throttle body, assuming you use the Borla/TWM 2900 series. I would recommend leaving them on the iron.

The Borla setup has provision for a TPS. You'll want one.

That combined with a good basic ECU and a set of 2nd gen coils and you'll have a nice little setup.

I've done a couple of these setups and could put all the parts together for you, if you wanted.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

I appreciate the offer but I have come to the same conclusion of the parts I need and have already started the search in my area.
The ecu is still up in the air but several friends are pushing me towards the Megasquirt 3. :/ We'll see how it goes.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

Ludwig, I reread what you said and why leave the injectors on the irons?
Do you have any pictures of your setups?

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

The closer the injectors are to the ports, the better the fuel atomizes/stays atomized as well as more accurately delivers the fuel. not to mention that you will need to buy the fuel rail for the throttle body

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

^ Pretty much what he said. There are a couple benefits to placing the injector up stream but, IMO, they're out weighed by keeping the injector in the iron.

Only pics I have are of a GSL-SE engine that we put a TWM/Racing Beat combo on. The -SE doesn't have a provision for injectors in the center iron, so the injectors went in the throttle body. Curiously, this throttle body came from TWM before they were bought by Borla and the TB has provisions for 4 injectors.

Redliner223

iTrader: (6)

Any pictures would be wonderful.
Alright, good thing I have the iron with the injectors in them.
So pretty much cap off the injector holes on the throttle body, and run FD secondary injectors directly into my iron programming them to be my primary injectors. Got it.
What fuel pump would be sufficient? I need a inline one of course.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

was that RB side-draft manifold with TWM throttle or did RB contribute in some other way? i'm just curious.

how were the 4 injectors situated - 2 on top and 2 underneath? i remember when i bought my TWM, i had a choice of 2 vs. 4 ports, but mine is an IDA. i didn't realize they had done the same thing for the DCO-style TBs as well.

also, just for the sake of clarity, that engine you put together was probably built with a 12A intermediate, because the SE does have injector ports from the factory.

C. Ludwig

iTrader: (27)

Any Walbro. They're available in external inline configurations.

Sgt.Stinkfist

iTrader: (6)

walbro GSL392