MoTeC TitaniumTT's OFFICIAL MoTeC M800/820 Thread
09-01-08, 11:24 PM
#1
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TitaniumTT's OFFICIAL MoTeC M800/820 Thread
Much like StylEmons thread on his M2R, this thread will cover just about everything relating to my MoTeC, the installation, the wiring, the AIM dash, the tuning and the troubleshooting. I hope that this thread becomes a good source of information for anyone looking to purchase a MoTeC or anyone having issues. I think most issues that arrise in this thread are going to be operator controlled until I get a good feel for the software. So, onto the project and why I choose the M800. I have an S4 that started life as an SE, ignoring the countless other upgrades, about 20 months ago I started swapping in a 13B-RE with a set of the REW twins on the side. I've wanted sequential turbo's since I first drove an FD but don't want to own an FD. When I started doing research years ago I found out that the RE had bigger intake ports than the REW. Not to mention I wouldn't have to recreate the subframe or drill and tap the center iron to mount the REW properly into an FC. The choice was easy. Through a good friend I located a set of FD twins and drove with the motor to make sure they physically fit on the motor. They do - barely. There are somethings that needed to be adapted but all in all it was fairly easy for me. Staying sequential was never a question. I started sourcing all the factory solenoids becuase Rob Baily wasn't available and I couldn't find any good aftermky solenoids. Luckily Rob re-appered and I quickly ordered a set of his solenoids and started building all the little pieces that I would need to make the twins operate sequentially. Boost/Vac chambers, the maze of lines and tubing etc etc etc.
As you can see staying sequential and having proper control of them is paramount. Can an E6 control the sequentials? Tecnically - yes. Properly, not a ******* chance. After spending $85 on a call to AUS and talking with the head engineer/R&D/whatever guy @ halteck we discovered that the E11 couldn't do it the way I wanted to either. The PFC you say? Well, I would have to buy an FD harness to get all the connectors and then splice and re-route and etc etc etc and end up with something that MAY be able to do it. Remember the timing is different as is the intake ports. There is little support that I have found for that EMS and I wasn't convinced that it would do it. So I decided on the M800 and found a guy locally that deals with racing professionals, has forgotten more than I could know about EMS's, has alot of experience with 900+bhp rotaries, landspeed records, roadracing, etc etc etc and was actually excited about the project becuase of it's uniqueness. My mind was made up. After a few trips tp his shop, a few months of emails, phone calls, and ALOT of $$$$ I had an EMS, a harness, and all the sensors that I could need. So, let the fun begin
The harness had to be divided into two seperate hanesses. One for the engine, and the second smaller one for the Solenoids, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressuse, Lambda and spare I/O's. The Lambda is the only connector that needs to be unhooked when I haul the motor if I decide to mount the oil pressure sender on the fire as it was rec'd. Personally I would rather save the extra 3 potential leaks and leave it on the pedastal but we'll see.
Most everything removed and starting to run the harness. You can see the Adel clamp holding it in place. The injector clips fall away from there and the oil pressure & temp, all the ignition, the CAS, the Alt exite, AIT, BAC, TPS, OMP, Coolant, and the low sump & 2-stroke senders all carry on from there. Probably a good time to mention that I refuse to premix. Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise. I have spent WAY to long in the marine industry to be diswaded.
Here is a good shot of the injector clips for the primaries
The oil temp and pressure mounted on the first ever produced RE-Speed mount with the -10AN bung. Yes Billy is a great guy and the two of us came up with this idea for this project.
Seems liek alot of other guys like it too though.
As you can see staying sequential and having proper control of them is paramount. Can an E6 control the sequentials? Tecnically - yes. Properly, not a ******* chance. After spending $85 on a call to AUS and talking with the head engineer/R&D/whatever guy @ halteck we discovered that the E11 couldn't do it the way I wanted to either. The PFC you say? Well, I would have to buy an FD harness to get all the connectors and then splice and re-route and etc etc etc and end up with something that MAY be able to do it. Remember the timing is different as is the intake ports. There is little support that I have found for that EMS and I wasn't convinced that it would do it. So I decided on the M800 and found a guy locally that deals with racing professionals, has forgotten more than I could know about EMS's, has alot of experience with 900+bhp rotaries, landspeed records, roadracing, etc etc etc and was actually excited about the project becuase of it's uniqueness. My mind was made up. After a few trips tp his shop, a few months of emails, phone calls, and ALOT of $$$$ I had an EMS, a harness, and all the sensors that I could need. So, let the fun begin
The harness had to be divided into two seperate hanesses. One for the engine, and the second smaller one for the Solenoids, Oil Pressure, Fuel Pressuse, Lambda and spare I/O's. The Lambda is the only connector that needs to be unhooked when I haul the motor if I decide to mount the oil pressure sender on the fire as it was rec'd. Personally I would rather save the extra 3 potential leaks and leave it on the pedastal but we'll see.
Most everything removed and starting to run the harness. You can see the Adel clamp holding it in place. The injector clips fall away from there and the oil pressure & temp, all the ignition, the CAS, the Alt exite, AIT, BAC, TPS, OMP, Coolant, and the low sump & 2-stroke senders all carry on from there. Probably a good time to mention that I refuse to premix. Don't bother trying to convince me otherwise. I have spent WAY to long in the marine industry to be diswaded.
Here is a good shot of the injector clips for the primaries
The oil temp and pressure mounted on the first ever produced RE-Speed mount with the -10AN bung. Yes Billy is a great guy and the two of us came up with this idea for this project.
Seems liek alot of other guys like it too though.
09-01-08, 11:35 PM
#2
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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The harness then take a bend around the Vac/Boost tank that I built. I secured it with an adel clamp and from there everything spiders out to thier final destinations. You can also see the alt charge cable secured as well. Since I am running an electric speedometer I used the hole in the firewall and a bulkhead terminal to pass the alt charge wire through to the battery side of the remote disconnect solenoid.
The Marren secondary rail installed. The connectors clip on in such a way that you can't see them. Unfortuneately this means that the rails need to be removed to gain access to them. All that means though is that you can't rip the rails 5' in the air when you take them off. Finese is key I guess.
My EMS guy also has a machine shop and he has these really bitching LS1 coil mounts that he usually uses on Porsches. The bolt pattern for the brackets lines up with the valve cover bolts. All I needed was some 1/8 or 3/16" aluminum plate and I could put them wherever I wanted. That's where I wanted them. More adel clamps securing the harness as it leads down the plate and every coil is grounded to the mounting plate which also grounds to the boost/vac chamber which gounds the plugs, the ecu and the body. Planning ahead really makes a difference in wiring. Most people just keep adding onto of adding but if you take a little time in the beginning, it's a MUCH nicer result.
That's all the pics I have of the engine. I'm waiting on a few metripack connectors before I can do the low sump & the low 2-stroke. The AIT, TPS, BAC, CAS and MOP are all connected and can be seen in previous pictures.
The Marren secondary rail installed. The connectors clip on in such a way that you can't see them. Unfortuneately this means that the rails need to be removed to gain access to them. All that means though is that you can't rip the rails 5' in the air when you take them off. Finese is key I guess.
My EMS guy also has a machine shop and he has these really bitching LS1 coil mounts that he usually uses on Porsches. The bolt pattern for the brackets lines up with the valve cover bolts. All I needed was some 1/8 or 3/16" aluminum plate and I could put them wherever I wanted. That's where I wanted them. More adel clamps securing the harness as it leads down the plate and every coil is grounded to the mounting plate which also grounds to the boost/vac chamber which gounds the plugs, the ecu and the body. Planning ahead really makes a difference in wiring. Most people just keep adding onto of adding but if you take a little time in the beginning, it's a MUCH nicer result.
That's all the pics I have of the engine. I'm waiting on a few metripack connectors before I can do the low sump & the low 2-stroke. The AIT, TPS, BAC, CAS and MOP are all connected and can be seen in previous pictures.
09-01-08, 11:43 PM
#3
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So, where do all these wires pass through to get to the EMS. In the same place as it did from the factory. Just in an infinently better way. For me, I like to enjoy working on my car. If I can avoid bending over a fender for an hour or so to remove most everything ontop of the motor to get to the connections, I will. I did. We used Mil-Sped connectors for the pass-thru on the firewall side and let me tell you, they are AWESOME! No more hours spent undoing and redoing UIM's, alternators, injectors or ANYTHING. It's been simplified to 3 connectors and that's it! So, since that firewall pass thru is no longer needed, lets make it solid shall we.
The piece in factory form
I ground down the lip and sanded where I needed to weld
I used a hole-saw and some 16 gauge sheet steel to make a plug. After ALOT of tack welding and a little grinding, here is what we are left with.
Before I welded the hole shut I mounted the blower motor and took alot of measurements. Smoked a bunch of cigs and thought and placed and measured and though and replaced and measured and remeasured and then double checked and found where I wanted to mount both plugs. Here is where they wanted to be
The piece in factory form
I ground down the lip and sanded where I needed to weld
I used a hole-saw and some 16 gauge sheet steel to make a plug. After ALOT of tack welding and a little grinding, here is what we are left with.
Before I welded the hole shut I mounted the blower motor and took alot of measurements. Smoked a bunch of cigs and thought and placed and measured and though and replaced and measured and remeasured and then double checked and found where I wanted to mount both plugs. Here is where they wanted to be
09-01-08, 11:57 PM
#4
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
A few more holes and the third piece of the harness bolts to the firewall. Thee only plug save the Lambda and Oil Pressure that needs to be undone to haul the motor is the top one. I ******* LOVE it!!!
From inside the car you can see how tight it is. The blower motor does fit, it needed some slight trimming on one of the connector mounts but everything fits just about perfectly. I are happy
To mount the ECU was a bit of a head scratcher since there are no mounting tabs at all. The idea of useing velcro in the location that I had in mind just wasn't sitting well with me & I wanted something to dampen vibrations going to the ECU. Here is what I came up with. The bottom and the sides are from 14 GA Stainless that I quickly burned through with my plasma and sent through my brake to create all the bends. The two pieces strapped over the top are from 16 GA stainless (they need to bend) and are welded int he back. Any piece of stainless that would contact the M800 has been padded. The mounting platform bolts into the car, you lift up the two straps, slide the ECU in and secure the straps with some stainless button heads and the ECU is now one with the car. I like it.
Mounted up
Coming off that third harness are connections for the wheel speed, boost trim, CAN comm for the dash, ADL comms for the ECU, a bunch more spare I/O's and all the power and ground connections. i should note that there are no branched circuits on the harness in the engine bay. All splices are done in the inside. This way if something goes wrong or things need to be re-pinned, it's not only possible, but it's much easier.
From inside the car you can see how tight it is. The blower motor does fit, it needed some slight trimming on one of the connector mounts but everything fits just about perfectly. I are happy
To mount the ECU was a bit of a head scratcher since there are no mounting tabs at all. The idea of useing velcro in the location that I had in mind just wasn't sitting well with me & I wanted something to dampen vibrations going to the ECU. Here is what I came up with. The bottom and the sides are from 14 GA Stainless that I quickly burned through with my plasma and sent through my brake to create all the bends. The two pieces strapped over the top are from 16 GA stainless (they need to bend) and are welded int he back. Any piece of stainless that would contact the M800 has been padded. The mounting platform bolts into the car, you lift up the two straps, slide the ECU in and secure the straps with some stainless button heads and the ECU is now one with the car. I like it.
Mounted up
Coming off that third harness are connections for the wheel speed, boost trim, CAN comm for the dash, ADL comms for the ECU, a bunch more spare I/O's and all the power and ground connections. i should note that there are no branched circuits on the harness in the engine bay. All splices are done in the inside. This way if something goes wrong or things need to be re-pinned, it's not only possible, but it's much easier.
That's everything I have so far. I expect to be getting a bunch of connectors in soon and i'll be able to finish up all of the wiring. I leave in 12 days to go get my dash, trim switch, and comm cables. This beast should be fired rather soon. The end is almost in sight. I'll keep this thread updated and more goes on.
09-02-08, 11:15 AM
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The original design is flawed and will break under high heat and pressure. Ask me how I know....it nearly cost me a motor.
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09-02-08, 04:10 PM
#8
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Oh thank the lord I was hoping you would pop in. Subscribe please subscribe!!!! I know you will be an invaluable help to this project.
It's not the first 2-piece design it's the later with the threads for the filter machined. I heard about the first batch. Thankfully it was only an "almost cost." This piece was the first one that he produced with the -10AN bung as opposed to the banjo fitting. I hate banjo fittings so I called Billy and asked what he thought about this.
I love the mil-spec connectors. So freaking worth it in my eyes.
I should have a little time tomorrow to wire up some solenoids and get those mounted. I'm picking up my dash and trim switch on the 13th and when everything gets back from the coater, we should be ready to fire soon. I'm excited. 20 months and I can see the light.
If that is the first run design, then I'm assuming its a 2-piece unit with the oil filter bung actually threaded into the center of that pedestal. If that is, then I would STRONGLY advise to throw it in the trash and find a newer 1-piece unit.
The original design is flawed and will break under high heat and pressure. Ask me how I know....it nearly cost me a motor.
The original design is flawed and will break under high heat and pressure. Ask me how I know....it nearly cost me a motor.
I should have a little time tomorrow to wire up some solenoids and get those mounted. I'm picking up my dash and trim switch on the 13th and when everything gets back from the coater, we should be ready to fire soon. I'm excited. 20 months and I can see the light.
09-04-08, 02:35 PM
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[quote=TitaniumTT;8515086]A few more holes and the third piece of the harness bolts to the firewall. Thee only plug save the Lambda and Oil Pressure that needs to be undone to haul the motor is the top one. I ******* LOVE it!!!
so where could i get a few of these plugs? Ive been wanting to do this with my haltech too to make engine pulls easier.... but i couldnt find a harness connector with 30+ pins!
so where could i get a few of these plugs? Ive been wanting to do this with my haltech too to make engine pulls easier.... but i couldnt find a harness connector with 30+ pins!
09-04-08, 04:23 PM
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little bit of advice, re route the spark plug wires out away from the engine mount at least an inch away from anything conductive.
Every time I have used magnecore wires, if you get them to close to anything like brackets chassis etc, at night you can see tiny arcs jumping through the wires.
You really have to strain to see it, like pitch dark and it probably makes no difference (well maybe some extra EMI) but it pisses me off.
Every time I have used magnecore wires, if you get them to close to anything like brackets chassis etc, at night you can see tiny arcs jumping through the wires.
You really have to strain to see it, like pitch dark and it probably makes no difference (well maybe some extra EMI) but it pisses me off.
09-04-08, 04:47 PM
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I love using the autosport connectors, so simple and crimping them is a breeze.. E Dogg, I can get these autosport firewall connectors, however a special tool is required to crimp them.
I love using the autosport connectors, so simple and crimping them is a breeze.. E Dogg, I can get these autosport firewall connectors, however a special tool is required to crimp them.
09-04-08, 08:01 PM
#16
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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[quote=E Dogg;8523883]
I don't think those particular connectors would work for your Haltech harness. The max gauge that they can accomodate is 18 or 20 I believe. Plus the crimper for them is upwards of $500 iirc. That was the main reason I paid to have the harness built. After I got done buying a few specialized tools, it would cost me just about as much in tooling & connectors than to pay to have it built. Not to mention the final product probably wouldn't have been as nice and it certainly would have taken 5-10 times as long.
Yeah, but your cars runs. Mine is months away still 
I hope so too. I hope once we get into the tuning and really open up th potential of this little box alot of people will see the light.
Ne ****! Seriously. Thanks for the tip. I believe they are farther than an inch away but I will double check. Perhaps a trip to autobone for some plastic seperators is in order. My boots shipped today so hopfully mon/tuesday I'll be able to button up the ignition side of things
Oh thank the lord. I hope to have her fired in 4-6 weeks. Thats when the fun will really begin.
Damn strait they do. One of my favorite sigs on this forum is
FC car - FD money.
With any luck tomorrow I'll be able to get the solenoids all wired up. My metri-pack connectors won't be in till next week so there are still a few things on the block that need to be finished once they get in.
A few more holes and the third piece of the harness bolts to the firewall. Thee only plug save the Lambda and Oil Pressure that needs to be undone to haul the motor is the top one. I ******* LOVE it!!!
so where could i get a few of these plugs? Ive been wanting to do this with my haltech too to make engine pulls easier.... but i couldnt find a harness connector with 30+ pins!
so where could i get a few of these plugs? Ive been wanting to do this with my haltech too to make engine pulls easier.... but i couldnt find a harness connector with 30+ pins!
little bit of advice, re route the spark plug wires out away from the engine mount at least an inch away from anything conductive.
Every time I have used magnecore wires, if you get them to close to anything like brackets chassis etc, at night you can see tiny arcs jumping through the wires.
You really have to strain to see it, like pitch dark and it probably makes no difference (well maybe some extra EMI) but it pisses me off.
Every time I have used magnecore wires, if you get them to close to anything like brackets chassis etc, at night you can see tiny arcs jumping through the wires.
You really have to strain to see it, like pitch dark and it probably makes no difference (well maybe some extra EMI) but it pisses me off.
FC car - FD money.
With any luck tomorrow I'll be able to get the solenoids all wired up. My metri-pack connectors won't be in till next week so there are still a few things on the block that need to be finished once they get in.
09-04-08, 11:29 PM
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[quote=TitaniumTT;8525041]
I don't think those particular connectors would work for your Haltech harness. The max gauge that they can accomodate is 18 or 20 I believe. Plus the crimper for them is upwards of $500 iirc. That was the main reason I paid to have the harness built. After I got done buying a few specialized tools, it would cost me just about as much in tooling & connectors than to pay to have it built. Not to mention the final product probably wouldn't have been as nice and it certainly would have taken 5-10 times as long.
hmm i cant seem to find a vendor for one, even though i work at a huge company that produces mobile and rugged computing systems... lol
I don't think those particular connectors would work for your Haltech harness. The max gauge that they can accomodate is 18 or 20 I believe. Plus the crimper for them is upwards of $500 iirc. That was the main reason I paid to have the harness built. After I got done buying a few specialized tools, it would cost me just about as much in tooling & connectors than to pay to have it built. Not to mention the final product probably wouldn't have been as nice and it certainly would have taken 5-10 times as long.
09-05-08, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TitaniumTT
Damn strait they do. One of my favorite sigs on this forum is
FC car - FD money.
FC car - FD money.
-a
09-06-08, 01:55 AM
#21
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Nice work Brian. I know we talked about the m800 alot, but I still can't see how you spent that much on an ECU. You are insane! But, I got some good plans set out for the Cosmo. Yeah, yeah, I know, plans are plans, money talks bullshit walks, I know. But it's GOING to happen.
I hope to see you at 7Stock brother.
I hope to see you at 7Stock brother.
09-06-08, 07:53 PM
#22
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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[quote=E Dogg;8525797]
If you'd like I can pull a few numbers off the connectors and you can try a google search.
I don't know if i should be proud or embarrased @ that. Although, no debt incurred for any of this so I guess..... proud?
Thanks Justin, I am my own ***** and pimp so it works well. We'll have to chat about the cosmo plans. Hopefully @ 7Stock
So I got a few hours in today and got the rest of the solenoid harness built, wrapped & installed but the bat in my camera died. I'll get those pics up later on. Still waiting on my metripack conectors to come in before I can finish off the low sump & low 2-stoke warnings. Then the motor can go in for one last fit before getting blown apart for paint and coating. Pics later tonight when I get home from work.
Nice work Brian. I know we talked about the m800 alot, but I still can't see how you spent that much on an ECU. You are insane! But, I got some good plans set out for the Cosmo. Yeah, yeah, I know, plans are plans, money talks bullshit walks, I know. But it's GOING to happen.
I hope to see you at 7Stock brother.
I hope to see you at 7Stock brother.
So I got a few hours in today and got the rest of the solenoid harness built, wrapped & installed but the bat in my camera died. I'll get those pics up later on. Still waiting on my metripack conectors to come in before I can finish off the low sump & low 2-stoke warnings. Then the motor can go in for one last fit before getting blown apart for paint and coating. Pics later tonight when I get home from work.
09-06-08, 09:04 PM
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Well, you are going to have a "WTF?" look on your face when I tell you what is going to happen. lol
I wish you had your car up and running though to make it out there. I think it would take home cleanest FC.
I wish you had your car up and running though to make it out there. I think it would take home cleanest FC.
09-06-08, 10:33 PM
#24
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Very nice work. Been very slowly working on my (JV) MoTeC M4 / Autronic 500R all year, so I really appreciate the attention to detail.
Out of curiousity, did you ever consider running RPM/MAP/EMAP (Exhaust MAP) fuel/timing maps? One of the nice capabilities of the MoTeC and Autronic ECU is that option but I can't find any one else in the rotary world who runs that configuration.
Out of curiousity, did you ever consider running RPM/MAP/EMAP (Exhaust MAP) fuel/timing maps? One of the nice capabilities of the MoTeC and Autronic ECU is that option but I can't find any one else in the rotary world who runs that configuration.
