Megasquirt MS3X + FD electric OMP
06-08-15, 11:54 AM
#1
MS3X + FD electric OMP
My question: Can an MS3X drive the stepper motor on an FD's OMP?
I've done quite a bit of searching to find the answer to this question but haven't come back with anything definitive quite yet. The most promising conversation seems to take place here, but I can't find any follow-up to that thread.
Does anyone have any more information?
I've done quite a bit of searching to find the answer to this question but haven't come back with anything definitive quite yet. The most promising conversation seems to take place here, but I can't find any follow-up to that thread.
Does anyone have any more information?
06-08-15, 10:07 PM
#3
Think you'll have a chance to test it soon? PM me if you need some testing support, I'm willing to give it a go.
My plan B is to use an Arduino to control the stepper motor, and to control the Arduino using a generic PWM output from the MS3. Would be nice to simplify things and just use the MS3 though...
My plan B is to use an Arduino to control the stepper motor, and to control the Arduino using a generic PWM output from the MS3. Would be nice to simplify things and just use the MS3 though...
01-18-17, 11:10 PM
#5
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Code succesfully tested on several cars with MS3X setups. And i think every MS3X install in Russia use it.
Partially? Maybe, but even Haltec implementation of OMP is partially - without any checks for adequate reading from analog sensor, and no RX-8 omp support.
Not yet?
2 years of waiting for testing code thai i've done in 2 days...
01-20-17, 01:25 PM
#6
Senior Member
Don't think they/he is interested in adding it..if you look at the msextra site...there are a couple of threads both in the ms2 and ms3 development subforms asking/begging for even a partial implementation which goes on deaf ears.which is what haltech only does anyways.
does your code require a beefier stepper drive circuit? what would it take to implement your code into the ms2 and or ms3 firmware? thanks
does your code require a beefier stepper drive circuit? what would it take to implement your code into the ms2 and or ms3 firmware? thanks
01-29-17, 05:57 PM
#7
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Don't think they/he is interested in adding it..if you look at the msextra site...there are a couple of threads both in the ms2 and ms3 development subforms asking/begging for even a partial implementation which goes on deaf ears.which is what haltech only does anyways.
does your code require a beefier stepper drive circuit? what would it take to implement your code into the ms2 and or ms3 firmware? thanks
does your code require a beefier stepper drive circuit? what would it take to implement your code into the ms2 and or ms3 firmware? thanks
By the way, haltech use stepper drive circuit to control OMP and this not best idea - i had experience with PS2000 on 20BREW cosmo, and spend about 8 hours to sort out why stepper does not want move - answer was simple. With haltech you shoud cut off 12v center power from stepper.
It is almost impossible to port this code to ms2 because of insufficiently I/O.
Today i put my code into 1.4.0 ms3 firmware (last firmware with source code available) but still not tested in car - there is winter outdoor.
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02-03-17, 01:52 PM
#8
Senior Member
that is slick...any chance of uploading the firmware or getting a copy after you have tested it? i'm sure people on the forum would greatly appreciate it ...cheers
Rx-8 omp
02-12-17, 03:11 AM
#11
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Sucessfully tested yesterday on car. Works excellent.
https://defreezemotorsport.ru/firmware/1.4.0-DM0001.zip
for those who cant wait until 1.5.0.
Noticed that time step time 5ms (from previous screenshot) can be problem in some cases, but 10ms works great.
Also, you can find here some weird option "PNP hardware" - dont set it to YES. this is for my own lunapark.
Wiring for pre-96 FD (8bit ecu):
pin A: 4I - white
pin B: 4J - yellow
pin C: 4K - blue
pin D: 4L - black
this wire colors from OMP sub harness, not main harness.
https://defreezemotorsport.ru/firmware/1.4.0-DM0001.zip
for those who cant wait until 1.5.0.
Noticed that time step time 5ms (from previous screenshot) can be problem in some cases, but 10ms works great.
Also, you can find here some weird option "PNP hardware" - dont set it to YES. this is for my own lunapark.
Wiring for pre-96 FD (8bit ecu):
pin A: 4I - white
pin B: 4J - yellow
pin C: 4K - blue
pin D: 4L - black
this wire colors from OMP sub harness, not main harness.
Last edited by vl-alexander; 02-12-17 at 03:16 AM.
02-13-17, 09:40 AM
#12
Very interesting ..few questions to those who may know.
1. Does this code work to control an s5 pump as well?
2. Does anybody know if the s5/fd pumps are interchangeable? Rotary Aviation uses the same adapter for both.
3. I have one of each s5/fd pumps. is one better than the other in regards to reliability/flow?
4. Does this code allow us to increase the maximum flow over stock in order to eliminate the need for premix on high horsepower builds?
1. Does this code work to control an s5 pump as well?
2. Does anybody know if the s5/fd pumps are interchangeable? Rotary Aviation uses the same adapter for both.
3. I have one of each s5/fd pumps. is one better than the other in regards to reliability/flow?
4. Does this code allow us to increase the maximum flow over stock in order to eliminate the need for premix on high horsepower builds?
02-13-17, 06:09 PM
#13
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Very interesting ..few questions to those who may know.
1. Does this code work to control an s5 pump as well?
2. Does anybody know if the s5/fd pumps are interchangeable? Rotary Aviation uses the same adapter for both.
3. I have one of each s5/fd pumps. is one better than the other in regards to reliability/flow?
4. Does this code allow us to increase the maximum flow over stock in order to eliminate the need for premix on high horsepower builds?
1. Does this code work to control an s5 pump as well?
2. Does anybody know if the s5/fd pumps are interchangeable? Rotary Aviation uses the same adapter for both.
3. I have one of each s5/fd pumps. is one better than the other in regards to reliability/flow?
4. Does this code allow us to increase the maximum flow over stock in order to eliminate the need for premix on high horsepower builds?
2.3. - dont know
4. it can not increase flow more than omp can physically pump. but stock code may not use full available controlling limits.
Here is map from stock FD ecu. 0% = 0v from position sensor, 100% = 5v.
I got it by datalogging stock ecu. The top row (250kpa) was extrapolated, as test car run only 1bar of boost.
physically omp limits inside ~ 19-89% range. so at 1.5bar of boost and 8000rpm there is no room to add oil. but same boost on 5000-6000 range you can increase flow by 10-15% if you want.
p.s. my opinion that premix is not the answer. premixed oil decrease fuel octane. and lube not well as injected oil.
Last edited by vl-alexander; 02-13-17 at 06:14 PM.
02-14-17, 09:06 AM
#14
Thanks for the reply!
A real concern of mine is the failure rate of these pumps. I hear a lot about internal shortages in the stepper motors. Maybe this isn't really the cause of the failures, I don't know. It would be nice to find out a way to integrate some sort of fail safe to check that the stepper motor is indeed in the position it's being told to be in. and if not maybe trigger a rev limiter. I think the OEM computers do this but not sure if it's within the means of the MS3.
A real concern of mine is the failure rate of these pumps. I hear a lot about internal shortages in the stepper motors. Maybe this isn't really the cause of the failures, I don't know. It would be nice to find out a way to integrate some sort of fail safe to check that the stepper motor is indeed in the position it's being told to be in. and if not maybe trigger a rev limiter. I think the OEM computers do this but not sure if it's within the means of the MS3.
02-15-17, 12:05 PM
#15
Senior Member
thanks for uploading a copy...hopefully it gets put into 1.5
well if you are worried about failure ..maybe you should just stick to premixing or convert to a mechanical omp...likely we will be lucky if we can just get the code added to drive the omp let alone the work it takes to code a failsafe solution like the stock ecu.I don't think any aftermarket ecu offerings have that feature anyways.
this is a workaround...convert the eomp to run a separate small 2-stroke oil tank and monitor the consumption rate..running a couple of fuel tanks through the engine with lack of omp oil won't do any damage from what a few trusted as knowledgeable builders have commented on this forum..lot easier filling a small tank then metering/mixing 2-stroke oil in the fuel at every fillup
well if you are worried about failure ..maybe you should just stick to premixing or convert to a mechanical omp...likely we will be lucky if we can just get the code added to drive the omp let alone the work it takes to code a failsafe solution like the stock ecu.I don't think any aftermarket ecu offerings have that feature anyways.
this is a workaround...convert the eomp to run a separate small 2-stroke oil tank and monitor the consumption rate..running a couple of fuel tanks through the engine with lack of omp oil won't do any damage from what a few trusted as knowledgeable builders have commented on this forum..lot easier filling a small tank then metering/mixing 2-stroke oil in the fuel at every fillup
Last edited by Nosferatu; 02-15-17 at 12:13 PM.
02-15-17, 01:28 PM
#16
I already have a mechanical pump with external reservoir through RA adapter. I ask these questions because I like the idea of having the ability to more accurately control the flow where needed based on load. If these electric pumps are not reliable (I'm not saying they aren't, I don't know), then mechanical it stays.
I have a gallon reservoir currently and I go over 3k miles before needing to top it off. Therefor a visual inspection of the level wont tell you much, especially when flow is rpm and throttle dependent and varies with how the car is driven. If the stepper motor fails at any given time there's no saying how long you'll go before noticing. There's no evidence to suggests that losing lubrication has no effect on the apex seals or rotor housing wear for x amount of tanks ran though. Especially not if running E85, which has even less lubrication than straight gasoline, which I am.
Viable or not, this is why it makes perfect sense to have some sort of feedback/fail safe.
I have a gallon reservoir currently and I go over 3k miles before needing to top it off. Therefor a visual inspection of the level wont tell you much, especially when flow is rpm and throttle dependent and varies with how the car is driven. If the stepper motor fails at any given time there's no saying how long you'll go before noticing. There's no evidence to suggests that losing lubrication has no effect on the apex seals or rotor housing wear for x amount of tanks ran though. Especially not if running E85, which has even less lubrication than straight gasoline, which I am.
Viable or not, this is why it makes perfect sense to have some sort of feedback/fail safe.
02-15-17, 05:25 PM
#17
Senior Member
no one is disputing that... write your own position error failure code ...others are trying to get a solution to not premix on motors that have an electronic omp and at least drive the emop..obviously a gallon oil tank is going to be more difficult to spot a change...I wrote a small tank...like 1 liter that holds enough oil for a couple of fill-ups
02-15-17, 06:08 PM
#18
no one is disputing that... write your own position error failure code ...others are trying to get a solution to not premix on motors that have an electronic omp and at least drive the emop..obviously a gallon oil tank is going to be more difficult to spot a change...I wrote a small tank...like 1 liter that holds enough oil for a couple of fill-ups
If you're only using a 1 liter reservoir then it is little to no extra work to premix.
02-15-17, 07:39 PM
#20
Nah, Premixing got old, but the hassle of having to remember to fill a container every other fill up would be even less convenient for memories sake. An oil reservoir that small would make the car feel high maintenance which is the entire reason I got away from premixing to begin with. I top off at every oil change. To each their own.
05-30-18, 07:41 PM
#23
Nah, Premixing got old, but the hassle of having to remember to fill a container every other fill up would be even less convenient for memories sake. An oil reservoir that small would make the car feel high maintenance which is the entire reason I got away from premixing to begin with. I top off at every oil change. To each their own.
06-13-19, 04:52 PM
#24
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Ken;
I have downloaded the current 1.5.1 firmware and I don't see this anywhere. Is it in one of the betas? I would like to try it out if it is available I just need to know which release has it.
I have downloaded the current 1.5.1 firmware and I don't see this anywhere. Is it in one of the betas? I would like to try it out if it is available I just need to know which release has it.
