rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Hey I need to run some wire for the rear speakers,and i would like to know what is the correct type of wire to use?
Is the stuff from the stereo shops the same as home theater wire, or is there some special kind that is recommended?

Stereo noob so, if there is a special kind to use, would you kindly explain the difference?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

I'm not an Audio Guru,but the wire that I have used is the Stuff that has a Clear insulation.you can get it at any Audio shop.Usually comes in rolls of 50' or so.the Thicker the Wire the Better,in my opinion.(about 10-15 dollars a roll)I run stuff about as thick as a Regular household Lamp wire.That way if I decide to Run High power,I don't need to Rip wire out and replace it.I ran my Replacement wire Under the Rocker Panel Guards,under the side Moulding and up to the shock mount,where the speaker is.Alot of Guys have Run SUBS in the Storage bins.when Installed they look like they were meant to be there.Very Nice..anyways,I hope that may help a bit!

John64

16 gauge for component speakers 12-10 gauge for subs.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input guys

The actual purpose of this is to power a set of focal 165 a1’s for the rear bin area for a touring that does not come stock with speakers in that location. So I just need to run wires from the speaker location to the amp.


Another question is it advisable to pull out the stock wiring for the front door speakers and replace it with a better grade wire or will the stock wiring suffice?

If I was to replace the stock wiring what is the correct way to do so?
Would it be advisable to pull the pins for the existing speaker wires and solder and shrinking the new wire to the existing terminals so as to keep the stock appearance?

Or is this even worth it?

scrubolio

iTrader: (8)

replacing the stock wiring for the front speakers is not worth the hassle IMO, you would have to run new wires through the door jam/grommet which is the biggest pain in the ***, and there isn't much space to fit a bigger 16g wire through it. all in all i doubt you'll be able to hear much of a difference unless you are pushing some serious watts through, and it cant be more than 4-5 feet from your HU to your fronts, unless you are running an amp

whats the point of putting new wires to the stock terminals to keep stock appearance if you can't see it behind the dash/door panel?

RETed

If the OP is willing to pay the money for Focals, why get cheap?
I'd even easily go 14AWG or 12AWG on the speaker wire, since you did spend a pretty penny on those drivers!

Running wires through the doors?
Why not?
Sure, it's a PITA, but why get cheap?


-Ted

scrubolio

iTrader: (8)

pretty penny on the focals but what about the amp? OP, what amp are you running? and what speakers are you running in the front? if they are focals, maybe it is worth pushing the nicer 16g wire, but if "why get cheap" might as well build kicker pods...be much easier to wire up

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Well thanks for the interest and advice guys, I really do need help with this project as I honestly know nothing about the stereo equipment despite my appearance for good taste.

And I guess if I give a little background, it may help others give me better direction.
Though I should start a new thread because this is going to get way off track.

So this is for a 93 touring, but I am dropping the headunit for a carputer setup. I have a set of focal 165 A1s I had intended on using in the front door panels (already mounted to the stock pods with spacers), but I couldn’t see a very good way to mount the component tweeter in the opening without partially covering the tweeter. So the new plan (also taking suggestions as to whether this is really a good idea to do) was to mount the component 165s in the 6x8 position in the rear bin panels staggered, and find a new set of non component 6.5” so I don’t have any issue with fitment



The reason for asking if it would be advantageous to rerun the wires is because I could do it very easily right now, as the interior is out at the moment. And I am no stranger to soldering and working with wiring, if fact I would say I am very good at doing something like pulling out the wires and terminals and replacing them with a better equipment.

To pull the pins out of the door harnesses is difficult yes, but there would only be 8 total so no big deal, entirely doable IMO.

Though not knowing if it is worth the time to change it is the issue I have, as I really have no concept of how good or bad the stock wiring would be for a stereo, or how much it will affect the sound quality if I were to change the wire out to something optimal.

So to physically do is not a problem, it is the “should I do it” that I need to know from the experienced guys that I would like to get advice from.

RETed

8<

Just so you don't get the wrong idea...

Most of the higher quality speaker wire is "OFC" or Oxygen Free Copper stuff.
Putting a soldering iron to this type of wire will cause it to corrode to death...or I haven't figure out the magic trick to doing it right!
A good, quality crimp connection is the standard when working with this stuff.


-Ted

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Just need to know if it will be worth my time, is there an actual discernible difference when listening to it?

I just don’t have a concept as I said….anyone that is willing to lead me in the right direction my ears are open, and I would love to learn a little on the topic.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

See right there Ted, I had no concept of how this stuff is done correctly. It will give me a good chance to use all those cool crimping tools I spent money on.

Thank you for taking the time to share.

RETed

Personally, car audio is meant to be listened to when you're driving around.
I think it's a little weird to just sit in the car with the engine off just to listen to your car stereo system!
...although I've done that before.

I would think that audible differences in speaker wires would not be noticable over all the engine and road noise driving around...unless you've got thousands of dollars worth of noise insulation installed!

With that said, I would not "cheap out" on the wiring and go with the "zip cord" stuff.
A good median is a good compromise.
Stay away from the 25 cents / foot crap from the local discount store in downtown.
At the other extreme, paying $100 / foot for Kimber Kable is...uh...overkill?

Personally, I like Streetwires myself.
The other alternative is Phoenix Gold stuff.
I absolutely ABHOR Monster Cable!
Speaker wires from the above is normally in the $1 - $2 / foot price range.


-Ted

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

The amp is an xtant 403a (which I am told is fairly nice, any opinions from this board?)

I had planned on running the xtant 1.1i for the center channel, but the stereo shop guy told me to not even hook the center channel up, so it found a nice home in the seadoo would it be good to run a center channel anyone?

I would love to go into how to wire the amp correctly, if someone had the time and patience to explain the advantages of one way over the other.

Pics of speakers and amp attached and the 1.1i seadoo rig just to toot my own horn

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Not thousands per say, just something to keep the drone out, or at least minimize its effects, and hopefully take care of some of those annoying squeaks and rattles!

Applied a coating called quiet car/coat and also filling empty spaces wit ha acoustical noise reduction material where possible.

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

BTW way what are "kicker pods"?

RETed

Xtant is good stuff in my book.
It's on the higher end of the entry-level brands.


Wow, I was staring at that thing trying to figure out what it was!
It looks like something James Bond would use!


This depends on your personal preferences...
Mind you, I haven't serious messed around with this stuff in almost 10 years!
Back in the early 90's, center channel set-up's were the rage.
Audio Control made a specific signal processor called the ESP-3 that made integrating a center channel driver very easy.
I've heard center-channel systems, and the soundstage is very touchy on the reference material being played - some songs sounded wonderful with it, and some songs sounded downright dreadful with it.
Then came "kickpanels" (which I assume is the same as "kicker pods"?)...
Keeping left and right path lengths as equal as possible, this solidifies the soundstage - it's the definition of two-channel stereo high fidelity.
Very simple set-up with less components (versus the center channel set-up) and works with almost any music you throw at it...
Mounting speaker driver as far away as possible (usually in the footwell kickpanels), you keep the pathlength difference between left and right drivers to a minimum.
Horn loaded front-stage drivers also used this principle and were the rage at about the same time.

This is when I left the "sport".

I know multi-channel processors were beginning to creep in (i.e. Dolby 5.1, etc.) and video was starting to get popular, so fancy theater signal processing was right around the corner...this was almost 10 years ago.
I think center channels made a small comeback due to this technology...

I don't think is what you were looking for, but this is about all I can offer to you.
It comes down to what you prefer - try to get a test listen to both systems (from a local car audio shop?) and see what you wanna go with...

Sorry for the ramble!


-Ted

scrubolio

iTrader: (8)

audio insulation/sound deadening material (like deadmat, brown bread, dynamat stuff, fatmat) is some stuff to take into consideration since the rx-7 is mainly built as a go car mazda engineers probably tried to use at least as possible, and if your interior is entirely out at the moment, it would be real easy to apply this stuff, especially now that they have the liquid paint-on applications

kicker pods or speaker pods are just like RETed said, just custom made speaker pods right down by your feet (click these links for examples: pic1 | pic2 i believe that they set a better "sound stage" in the car, i believe they have to be someone properly built as the angle of the speakers toward you matters. but really simple fiberglass laying with resin can get the job done fairly easily if you have the patience, i think this is more of a bigger upgrade though, as it will take some work to make it look stock-like

however, you really need to start off with what are you goals? (damn sounds like your going single turbo haha) do you want a nice audio system when you are going on long car trips, a just better than the crap stocker, or a thumping bass system. movies or music? or both? seems to me with the focals and the xtant you are going to a nicer "touring" system

since you are thinking of getting a carputer, maybe you'll be watching some dvds? but honestly i dont' think that the measly center channel speaker will be able to put out much oomph at all, so your probably better off without it, music, IMO, doesn't really require a center speaker, if your fronts are setup properly, it should "seem" like the music is coming out from in front of you. also with a center channel all your audio gets jumbled through some weirdo algorithms such as pro-logic I or II, DTS 5.1, etc which as RETed states doesn't always make the music sound better, rather it just "figures" out which sounds should goto which channel

and your rears don't play into the sounds factor that much at all, don't concentrate too much on the rears, they are really just there for "filler" i wouldn't waste your focals on the rear, leave the focals you have in the front and mount the tweeter on the triangle piece on the doors, if that makes sense: on the driver's side door its the small triangle (sailboat) piece that snaps right off on the top right where the window meets the door panel

i also don't think that soldering is better in this case, get some marine grade crimp connectors (the ones that you heat up with a heat gun or hairdryer afterwards） these seal out moisture and other debris and give the most solid connection, could be overkill for the interior though. for the through the door jam wiring you could probably just leave the existing wire and crimp your better 16g wire on each end if you really wanted to use better wire, because honestly even after taking out those 8 wires, i highly doubt you'll be able to squeeze a 16g wire through without messing up the other wires...

wow that was a lot....hope it makes sense, wiring up the amp is probably the easiest part, especially since your entire interior is out, make sure you are running proper gauge power wire! at least 4gauge, and have a fuse no less than 16 inches (IIRC) from the battery, if you plan on running more amps in the future, maybe just run a 0g (its really fat) and then running a distribution block with 4g wire running off the distribution block to your amps, make sure you run a signal wire to tell your amps when to turn on/off!

i'm going to stop now, hope this helps, and if anything is wrong or needs to be corrected someone help me out

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

good to hear, honestly that’s all I need, I like good sound but I am certainly no snob about it.


Ya it looks a little different with the SS shroud off of the 1.1i, and housed in a pelican box. That mess of random circuitry I made to turn the system on and off via a remote momentary that integrates into the stock controls.

It was one of those projects that was really more of a could I do it, rather than a should I do it….but it turned out nicely and works remarkably well. Pics can be seen here if your interested
http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=34829&page=3



Well by wiring it (this may be very basic for you guys), I meant that it gives you the option to do 2 and 4 ohm, and the stereo guys said it can do both stable IIRC from what I was told.

Is there a distinct advantage to running one way or another between the 2 and 4 ohms?

I never really have been able to get a good response on why one would want to run it in one or the other configuration?

Here are the specs on the device if it helps

http://www.xtant.com/html/techSupport/pdfs/403aMan.pdf


My plan to run this amp (xtant 403a) was to either run the 4 ohm focals in the front at 50 watts and get a set of 2 ohm 6x8s and run them in series for the rear to achieve 4 ohms at 100 watts, allowing the amp to run 4 ohms


Or I could run the 4 ohm focals in the rear in parallel to achieve 2 ohms at 200 watts, and getting a set of new (non component) set of 6.5” 2 ohm speakers to run in the front at 100 watts, this would allow the amp to run 2 ohms

And if this sounds a little confusing, just think how a non enthusiast feels…

All this sounds kosher, NO?

Honestly thanks for shedding any light on the topic!

Spec sheet screen grab:

rotarypower101

iTrader: (1)

Ya if you look closely at those poor quality pics, you will see a black residue over everything on the interior, it is a product called quiet coat, supposed to work remarkably well according to David Hayes (think that was his name)


thanks for the pics, I just don’t think that is my bag, I really really want to keep stock appearances on the interior as much as possible, and the fact that it takes up what little foot room this car has is unacceptable IMO.

That’s why I was thinking about moving the focals back so I could mount the component set in the 6x8 shroud without impeding the flow of the speaker.

my goal are in a very grey area, as uninspired as this is going to sound I am just trying to ask questions and have others tell me what to do.

I really have absolutely no experience and no confidants that are willing to go into detail on how to do it correctly.

Its just one of those areas that I have never really been interested in, and unfortunately have no friends that are into it either…I try to do a little research now and then, but it always feels like people go on a fast tangent and start talking way to technical and I get disinterested quickly.

already have all the computer components, and I run this in my daily driver, love the thing as I don’t have a very keen sense of direction GPS is a godsend.

do people regularly mount the component tweeters on the triangles any pics?

If the center speaker is not going to be in use, is it possible to mount them in there or is this a big NO NO? I have big reservations about modifying the interior as I said…

Ya I have a set of really nice crimping tools and crimps that I got from a friend for fleet electrical wiring so I am set in that department, and melty shrink makes for a almost watertight joint.


Ya just joining the wires to pigtails would be much easier, will do.

The amp already has a 0000(4/0) AWG non intrusive routing on the floorboard and routed through the rear bin support with high temp convoluted tubing over the length and fused ~ 12” away from battery.


All of it helps immensely! I really haven’t been able to find anyone that was willing to advise me on the topic.

RETed

Personally, I don't like to drop the impedence down like that.
There's this spec called "damping factor", and it's a value (no units) which describes how well the amplifier can control the speaker driver.
So, you would like the damping factor # to be high(er).
Although most amps are stable down to 2-ohm loads (per channel), the damping factor gets cut in half.
Thus, control gets cut down in half.

Now, this is all purely numbers...
In reality, can you hear this effect of the damping factor being reduced?
Most people can't.

If you can afford it, just run a single 4-ohm load per channel.
IMO, there's no reason to be dropping impedences like unless we're talking about competition (skirting power class rules), or you just want to show off.


-Ted