DigitalSynthesis

Ok guys. Yet Another E6X Ignition Problem (YAEIP). I've tried everything I know of right now and am left scratching my head going WTF.

At up around 6500 rpm or higher I am experiencing severe breakup of the ignition signal. When I rev (free or under load seems to make no difference) to that rpm or higher I'm picking up spikes to 16000 rpm on the Haltech. My stock tach of course doesn't jump since its filtered somewhat. But even though my AFRs are sane (~12-13) I'm getting severe bucking and popping in the exhaust. I'm afraid to hit these rpms under boost since I'll trigger fuel cut. But the wierd thing is a few times, under moderate boost (~4-5 psi) I ran straight to redline no problems.

So, to remedy this, I've tried the following:

- Relocated the CAS wires further away from the plug wires
- Changed the reluctor gain from 0 to 7 with no noticable effect on the problem
- Changed the spark plugs
- Verified solid timing (timing is bang on)
- Added some additional temporary shielding to CAS wires to see if it would help any.

None of this made any noticable effect on the problem.

Can anybody shed any more light, experience, or suggestions on how to solve this? I'm attaching a sample datalog for you to check out:

Datalog showing breakup

zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

I'm assuming you are keeping your distance from the alternator cable as well? I know it runs in the same bundle but I guess some people have experienced stumbles that they said got better when they spaced the wire out. You can also take the zach approach to this and just buy refridgerator water hose from home depot and case the wire in it. I don't get ANY interference. Is the cas fairly clean on the inside? It's kind of a long shot but maybe if there is some build up on the magents or something? Like I said, not likely but I could see it messing up the signal maybe?

GUITARJUNKIE28

damn, i guess i got lucky on danny's car...

did you hold the cas wire closer to the plug wires to see if it got worse? what kind of plug wires are you using anyway?

DigitalSynthesis

Hm. I can check the CAS but I think with it working all the way to 6500 (and working once or twice to 8k) that its probably fine. I will give it a thorough electrical check soon. As for better shielding, most people don't seem to need any better than the Haltech's come with stock, so I'm surprised at this. Mine is properly shielded up to about 3" from the CAS. But those 3" might be the problem. I'm going to see if I can source any inherently heavier shielded cable.

The alternator thing might be worth a shot, I did think about it but ruled it out as a serious chance of being "it".

No I did not. I'm using the stock NGKs, but new ones. Its only me troubleshooting this car so I can't really move the wire while watching my gauges and trying to redline it. I don't like just yanking the throttle in the engine bay w/o a good look at what its doing to the rest of the car. If I can get a friend in here I might be able to.

zjbarra

iTrader: (2)

Like I said, it's probably not super likely but it's not something you want to overlook and have come back to haunt you. Chances are if you give it a couple inches from each cable you should be fine, otherwise I'd just say do what I did and stick a metal pipe around it with a fat ground temporarily just to eliminate it.

RETed

I think the new RA8 built-in reluctor is causing more headaches than it's worth.
The E6K with an earlier version built-in reluctor had no problem with the FC / FD ignition triggers.
If you see anomolies in the RPM's, it's an ignition input problem, period.
So far, I haven't seen an instance of a clean FC / FD install with an E6X yet.
I've been holding back customers on buying the E6X's until Haltech gets this sorted out.
In the meantime, we're looking for a bunch of used E6K's...


-Ted

DigitalSynthesis

****. So has Haltech acknowledged this as a problem and are they going to do anything about it?

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I dont think so because they would not admit there was any problem to me when I talked several times with them on the phone VERY LONG DISTANCE. So I don't think they have admited the problem, but there is definitely a problem.

DigitalSynthesis

Kso. So, now. What can I do? I'm not about to run friggin copper pipe just for a CAS.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I agree, I am getting very frusterated! I mean there are about 8 people that I know of having the very same problem with the E6X there is definitely a problem. I hope that somebody at haltech realizes this and helps us fix the problem because this just isn't working! I have had my haltech in my car since May and I haven't driven it yet... now it is winter and I spent a whole summer working on trying to get my haltech to run my car.... and my $33,000 investment is sitting in the garage all year round.. and I am walking...
I hope Haltech will give us all a hand.

dubulup

what do you consider clean? I've got a single FD running on the E6X. Install went as planned, didn't fire up first crank...but that's expected with a rebuild/single/haltech install.

Fires up now first crank, still needs tweaking with cold idle speed stuff but...I've got 500 miles, nothing silly so far. :crossesfingers: :knocksonwood:

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

ok I edit out of nine people I now know with an e6x (1 FD) the FD one works! the rest I know of are still having trouble!

GUITARJUNKIE28

and here i though i just did something wrong with the first 2 i did...

i talked to haltech and they really pushed for using a 1k resistor inline for the home n trigger signals. i'm in the middle of an install on a 450+rwhp fd and i don't even wanna take any chances of **** going wrong in the high end... i don't wanna have to replace that motor.

let's all flood them with emails and see what we can get done.

in the meantime, if you find a better shielded cable, let us in on where you got it.

DigitalSynthesis

I'm seriously considering another EMS if this cannot be fixed quickly and solidly. I will evangelize if Haltech doesn't step up to the plate on this.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

yeah I am concidering an autronic system.
I had a microtech and the install and running went way better. My freind is now using that Microtech and is driving his CAR!!!! :|
But I sincerely hope that haltech helps us all out.

DigitalSynthesis

I hold very little hope for that happening. It is probably a physical prob with the units and they won't want to fix that. They'll shuffle us around with work-arounds and tell us to **** off.

On the other hand, if they DID fix the problem, I'd be a Haltech die-hard for life. ;-)

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I sincerely hope that isn't the case!

RETed

I'm talking about something that drives just as well or better than the stock ECU in terms of every day driveability.
We got fricken hosed on the E11V1, so I'm already steamed about that.

For E11V1 customers who have problems, Haltech is taking then ECU's back and replacing them with E11V2 ECU's.
One of the BIG problems with this exchange is that the wiring harnesses are totally different.
This means the E11V2 wiring harness needs to be REDONE.
This adds more labor and frustrations.
I had two E11V1 customers.
Due to a nasty bug that turns the E11V1 off while adjusting maps, I've managed to kill a 13BT rebuild.
I've had to eat the costs associated to fixing this motor due to a Haltech E11V1 problem - you think Haltech AUS is going to reimburst me for their error?
I don't hold my breath on it.
One of them already sent their E11V1 back to Haltech for an exchange.
The other customer is just sitting on the fence right now, as the unit is still working okay.
Just to be a good vendor, I would have to eat the labor costs of replacing and reinstalling the new harnesses.
Yes, the E11V1 for E11V2 exchange is official from Haltech AUS.
Haltech AUS is officially not supporting the E11v1 anymore - all problems with the E11V1 is officially solved by return-E11V1-and-we-will-replace-it-with-a-new-E11V2.

Now, the E6X problems have not been officially acknowleged by Haltech AUS at this time to my knowledge.
I was pissed to find out about the voltage regulation problem with some of the E6X units - some of the shut down when cranking, and battery voltage drops under 11.5VDC - this is just downright ludicrous...
The problems with the RA8 reluctor and the ignition trigger install problems are plentiful - I've worked on at least 3 of them online, and I've seen countless others.
This just looks bad for Haltech AUS.

All the other E6K customers I have and support have run into minor problems which have all been fixed quickly.
The E6K's are all running superbly versus all this E6X headaches.

I can understand the frustration of E6X owners...


-Ted

enzo250

Good Old trusty Haltechs.

GUITARJUNKIE28

i'm never recommending the x to anyone. EVER
i'd honestly rather find a used k and get a new flying leads harness.

DigitalSynthesis

Ok, my dealer (mike @ kickyride.com) and I are going to slap this bad boy on an oscilloscope, hopefully this weekend (Sunday is the plan). We'll post what we find here and send it to Haltech.

Haltech took a 13B CAS on the bench and spun it to 12k on an X. They had no problems whatsoever. Both sides are convinced its a noise immunity issue, we just aren't sure if its an application issue or a reluctor pickup issue. I think you guys know which I'm more likely to suspect but this test on Sunday should provide some conclusive data (we hope). I'll bring the extra CAS if I can find it. Mike is going to try to find some magnecor 10mm wires as they seem to have even lower noise than the stock ones.

I have to say, Mike's support of this thing has so far been superb. Whatever we end up thinking about Haltech I have to say I've had nothing but a good experience working with Mike on this.

It appears that Haltech has now recognized this as an issue with this application and are taking steps to work with us to determine cause. We will see where it goes from there.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I just got a reply from haltech and here it is;
[quote]
Haltech
Hello Jeffrey,
I have had the mazda distributor going now for a
half an hour or so at over 10000RPM without any problems so i do not think
there is an inherit problem with the E6X and the mazda trigger types.

If you are having trouble with this a simple solution could be an RA8
external reluctor adaptor, this external unit is much more shielded from
ignition noise.

If there is anything else i can do to help, please let me know.

Kind Regards,

Matt Wright

Haltech Sales/Support
10 Bay Rd
Taren Point 2229
Sydney, Australia
www.haltech.com

[quote/]

SO in order to run the E6X in a Rx-7 you need to spend another $100 on an external RA-8 external reluctor adapter.
I am so far very unpleased with the e6x.

DigitalSynthesis

Well that's the "easy fix". Matt is a solid guy over there, so he's not selling you up the river, they just don't yet believe its a problem with the unit. Once we get solid oscope data we should be able to determine one way or the other. Mike's oscope has datalog and image print capability so we'll take dumps of what we get and let you guys know.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

so you are just taking data while the engine is running? or are you taking data with just spinning the trigger?
and with this data you hope to accomplish what?
Not badgering just simple direct questions.

RETed

Um, having the CAS isolated from a running motor is probably not going to turn up anything.

I know I've had a LOT of headaches just trying to use the existing CAS wiring plug, but I've learned to remove and clean the pins on all installs.
Some Haltech installers even recommend to go as far as cutting that plug off and installing your own replacement (I prefer Deutsch).

The close proximity of the alternator is a valid argument.
Having the CAS away from it on a test bench doesn't prove much.

The thing I don't understand why the E6K didn't have as much problems as the E6X does.
If Haltech still has those RA6(?) reluctors used in the E6K available for sale, that might be a viable option.
I don't think running a newer RA8 that's already internally built-in is going to change anything?
Anyone got a spare set of MSD 8509's for experiment?


-Ted