MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

My now FI Haltech equipped car is 10x's as bad as the carb'ed one ever was... Its hard as hell to start, I have tinkered with the Haltech fuel maps, primer map etc, and I have gotten no where... I tried to get some people from this baord to help me via email and I have gotten no where... I cant get it tuned anywhere within a 1000 miles of me, so Im crying out for help here... LOL

Well here what it does you go to crank it, and it wont try to start for ****, but if you lightly keep pumping the gas and cranking it, it will eventually start backfiring bad, and you keep cranking and keep pumping lightly, it eventually catches , runs like ****, hold the gas, and it eventually straightens out. After its been running a minute or so, its smooth as glass. Runs at about 20 vac at idle , so I doubt its the motor. I have also done a compression check with a rotary engine compression tester and its damn near perfect.

I need help my mods are in my sig..

Bucrx7

Do you have a heated garage where you can try to start the car in? It's probably the correction map that needs to be tune. If your car starts fine in a warm climate and hard in cold then it's most likely the correction map.

pistonsuk

i have a large port turbo 13b with e6k.
i have noticed that when my engine is cold it cranks longer before hitting. (my original battery wouldnt sustain a rapid crank for this slightly extended period when it was cold so i upgraded from 500cca to 1000cca, -very good idea-.). a fast strong crank really helps.
when it does start it takes a little time before it really wants to do anything, i usally let it idle for about a min. be for moving. the idle is manualy set to 1k
during a hot start it hits immediately and is ready to go.
approx. settings that might help:
crank ignition: 14-15deg advance
ignition maps below 1k and below 0psi: 13-15deg advance
ignition trailing: 4-5deg
coolant correction: approx 30% around 30degF
i also have the coolant correction not quite linearized to 175deg. it is slightly humped up.
i also set post start map to 18seconds and linearized from approx. 20%-0% correction under 55deg
i also have my 0rpm and 500rpm maps much richer than my 1k or 1.5k. the low intake velocity (large ports) require a lot of fuel to make it hit.
hope it helps
email me at gastrich.2@wright.edu if you want to see my map
justin

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

No to heated garage as asked earlier, I do however have a heater in it. But its only heated when im in there working...

In the warmer climate, youd have to crank it for a good 10 seconds. But you didnt have to keep lightly tapping the gas... It would eventually fire and run, still had to be babied for some time with the gas before it would idle on its own..

It smells very very rich when it trys to start, it almost acts like its flooded. Its kinda funny to explain, but you WILL NOT START IT if you dont keep lightly pressing the gas pedal.

Hell if I know what im adjusting, I mean im not stupid LOL I just feel that way.

My idle is manual set to idle at 1k, and after the motor is hot, you barely bump the key to start and it will fire right up... I guess when I get my wideband on there I will tinker with it further, this is starting to become annoying.

tims

I would work on the correction tables. these are some of the hardest to get right. my car is sometimes difficult to start when below 50*( sorry I am in southern california so winter is kind of relative) try a lower setting on the timing also. wide band is not going to give much info for cold start problems. if you are constantly pumping the pedal it reasons that it is in need of more fuel.

Rx7-AIII

Have you checked the little things such as the TPS. Is it zero'd correctly? Are you hitting the home key in the primer map page and increasing the correct bar? Have you tried to increase the fuel during cranking in the fuel maps page?

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Watching the data screen it says 9.0 somthing mS when you first turn the key, does that for a few seconds. I assume thats the first little spray of fuel in there before you crank it. When its cranking w/o pressing the gas it says something around 2 something mS injector time...

The TPS is zeroed, and shows accurately on the engine data page. I know when its cold you have more air, cause the air is denser and thus you need more fuel, but it acts like its getting too much already...

I will print this out as a guide when I get a chance to go back out there and fiddle with it. If anyone wants to take a look at the map, ill send it LOL

tims

I have found that my engine idles and starts better the more fuel that is added. I can smell it out the pipe, but it starts better. no real harm in trying. might need to run a hotter spark plug for the winter months.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

I think it is too rich already, thats why its backfiring?

tims

could be. I would just experiment, sorry I just don't have any experience with cold weather. I think the coldest it has been at the track has been about 50*.

Bucrx7

If it is Backfiring it is too lean, i had the same prob mine sounded like a cannon 'BOOM' it would scare the **** out of me. i richen my coolant map alot and my air not as much,hope this helps.
Barry

T88NosRx7

iTrader: (1)

Need to mess with correction maps.

fatboy7

Backfiring can happen anytime the ignition misses, but its hot enough down stream to light the mixture. So it could be either lean, or rich. Try richening either/both your primer map and your coolant temp map for the starting temp, and playing around with your Ignition Crank map. I remember when checking my timing the other week that when the engine was cold, the timing retarted. Don't know about cranking though.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Must be nice, its about 20 here right now

Im gonna go out and tinker with it again, I got the map saved on disk so Ill be back at day 1 if I screw it up LOL

Thanks for all the help guys

jetenginedoctor

Is it backfiring or afterfiring??? There is a critical difference.

Backfire: That unpleasant sneeze of burning air/fuel that roars back through your induction system sometimes blowing your air filter to hell. This one is caused by a lean condition. On an ignition event where there is just enough fuel to ignite but not enough to finish burning before the next intake event, that little bit of flame ignites the incoming air/fuel mixture. This is probably not the case you're experiencing, as I find it pretty much impossible for enough slow-burning gas to remain in the combustion chamber/rotor recess to lead to this problem. But hey, my areas are piston and turbine engines, so I can't count this one out entirely.

Afterfire: When something goes 'ka-boom' and fire shoots out the tailpipe. This one is often wrongly called a backfire. This is caused by an overly rich mixture coupled with an air leak in the exhaust system.

Finding a solution to your cold start problems will rely on you being able to determine whether you're too rich or too lean. My money is on you being too lean, as even a pig rich engine should fire and smoke like hell when it's cold. The fact that you fanning the throttle while you crank gets it to fire leads me to believe you're way too lean. Try increasing the temp correction factor a bit. Let us know what you figure out.

BK

BMEP Fuel & Tuning

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Nope its out the tail pipe

I sent you the map, did you ever get that emal, you never responded?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i jusr reread the manual (mine starts on the 3 rd turn of the key) it seems like the primer map, is there to squirt fuel into the engine to get it started, and the cooant corrections are for when its running, sorta

mike

jetenginedoctor

MIKE-P-28

I took time last night and reviewed the map file you sent me a few weeks ago (-sorry-) and it appears to me that you not only need more cold start fuel on your primer map, but you probably need a little more coolant temp correction and perhaps a little more post-start enrichment. The fact that you get it to start by fanning the throttle leads me to believe you're too lean, as well as the fact that the car is afterfiring, that's no doubt due to the fact that fuel is accumulating in the exhaust, and then iginiting by the slow-burning air/fuel mixture that's still burning as it's pumped from the exhaust port into the exhaust tubing itself.

Try adding fuel a little at a time on both the prime map and the coolant correction map. Keep doing so and try again to start the engine, but stop when you can smell the engine flood. You'll want to keep a strong spare battery handy to make sure you've got plenty of cranking speed, otherwise you might not be starting for other reasons.

Let me know how things go.

BK

jetenginedoctor

For some reason, the forum shows j9fd3s as having the last entry in this thread. Mike-P, did you see my above response????

BK

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Thanks BK, I have been toying wiht it a lot, I got it to start tonite, but its still needing a shitload of cranking. Im about at my wits end, LOL. Slaps self , could have had a v8 LOL

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i was able to get mine to start a lot better, not from dead cold though (i dont have the battery for that)

mike

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Ok to update this saga:

I have leaned the primer map quite a bit. It still had a little trouble when it was dead cold. But here the last few days its been in the upper 30's-50's. Started the car 3 days straight every nite, and it fires up pretty good now. Theres still some issues to resolve, but all in all its a crapload better

thanx guys