AdrianE

Hi,

I have installed my E11v2 on my 3rd gen RX7 (series 6) and need some good advice with regards to setting up a "base map" that I can start tuning from. I have the latest firmware in the E11v2, but the only base map that came with the Haltech software is for the 'series' 4 RX7. I tried to adapt this map to start the engine, but I still think some of my settings are wrong!

Anyway after I re-checked my wiring, the first time I turned the ignition key, I managed to get the engine running at about 2000-2500rpm for about 5 minutes. But it wouldn't idle well and eventually stalled.

The E11 v2 manual isn't specific enough about the 'series 6' RX7 (yes I know there's about a 100 other cars it has to cater for!). Initially I used:-
Spark Mode = "Waste Spark"
Ignition Spark Edge = "Falling Edge"
Dwell Mode = "Constant Charge"
Trigger Angle BTDC = 65deg
Tooth Offset = 5

But since then I have been on K2RD's website (http://www.k2rd.com/haltech/drawings/rx7drawings.html) and found that I should have been using "Direct Fire" for the standard FD3S ignition module. I changed the Spark Mode setting from "Waste Spark" to "Direct Fire" without changing any other parameters, and the engine will not fire at all. Changing it back to "Waste Spark" again worked fine, and it fired up. I'm puzzled!

Does anyone have an E11v2 base map for the 'series 6' RX7, just so I can compare the basic Ignition and Fuelling settings?

Thanks,

Adrian

AdrianE

Does anyone know what the correct Ignition settings are for a 1995 RX7 (FD3S)?
Waste Spark on IGN1 (leading), IGN3 (trailing), IGN4 (trailing)
Direct Fire on ???

Adrian

RETed

I believe the DIRECT FIRE setting uses 4 channels of ignition: L1, L2, T1, T2
You should be using WASTESPARK for stock coils: L1+L2, T1, T2


-Ted

Mr. LV

Definatly need waste spark. I am running mine in sequential as well (you may want to check that). I would definatli make sure that the timing is lining up. Check the tooth offset and recheck the timing.

AdrianE

Thanks for the replies, I'm using Waste Spark now. I'm just having problems with the trailing plugs firing at the correct time and in the correct order. In the E11v2 manual its supposed to be ... IGN1 fires Leading 1 & 2, IGN3 fires Trailing 1, IGN4 fires Trailing 2.

I have Trailing 1 wired up as the Trailing Front, and Trailing 2 wired up as the Trailing Rear. I think this is correct but I'm not 100% sure on this. I spent a lot of time yesterday just trying to get the engine to fire up and then not die as soon as I get off the throttle!

I have also been datalogging Fuel Injection Time (in ms), RPM, Load, Leading Ignition advance, Trailing Ignition advance etc and have seen some 'strange' things happening. If I lock the timing to 10degrees to help start the engine then the Trailing ignition advance locks at -4degrees with respect to the Leading plugs (ie. it fires 4degrees before Leading!). Also if I changed the values in the Trailing ignition advance to be +10 to +14degrees AFTER Leading, then Trailing fires 10 to 14 degrees BEFORE Leading. The engine is not happy at all with this and sounds like its in pain!

I had to changed all the values in the Trailing ignition advance to be -10 to -14degrees with respect to Leading to get around this problem. But still there are entries in the Log where Trailing drops to ZERO degrees with respect to Leading ! (ie. both plugs fire together). Its as if there's a ZERO value in another map I don't know about (and yes I have read the manual) ...

The only thing I can think of to get the engine fired up without dying is to remove both the Trailing HT Leads and connect them up to spare spark plugs earthed on the chassis. That way, whenever the Trailing plugs fire, it will make no difference at all...

Adrian

AdrianE

OK, so I cut the wires that go to the Trailing (front and rear) igniter. It was too cold outside yesterday to take off the intake 'elbow' and wire up my spare spark plugs! Now just the Leading plugs will fire. Or so I thought. When I finally cranked the engine it was nowhere near firing up, it felt as if no sparks were being generated. This leads me to believe only the trailing plugs were firing before I cut those wires! This might explain why the engine was such a bitch to start!

Today I have to connect the Trailing wires to the igniter again, and get yet another battery, as I've killed this one. Maybe I should buy a truck battery this time! Then I'll connect up my timing gun and start marking up the bottom pulley, to see when (and if) the plugs are firing. But I think the CAS is working OK as the RPM is not spiking under cranking and is smooth.

I'm getting very pissed off with this E11v2. If this carries on I'm just going to chuck it in the bin and burn it! Maybe I should film this and post it somehere on the Net.

Adrian

Mr. LV

Man... I hate to say it, but you have something fouled up big time somewhere. It may be the wiring, the ign. set up, or ????. You should not in any way have the trailing firing before the leading! I'm not trying to be rude, but it is not the e11, it is something you have done.

AdrianE

I don't think I have screwed up somewhere and broken anything. I'm getting sparks on all the HT leads. It's just that the ignition timing is not doing what I expected! I have marked up the (standard) bottom pulley at the place where there is a small indent (ie. not the large marker that sticks out from the pulley). I then used a timing gun to find out WHEN the Front Leading and Front Trailing spark plugs were firing.

Then having 'locked' the Ignition Timing to 0.1deg, and having attached the timing gun to the Front Trailing HT Lead, I got someone to crank the engine (approx. 200-300rpm) while I pointed the timing gun at the bottom pulley.
I then compared the position of the (Timing) Mark to that of the Pointer (ie. on the casing behind the pulley). I got some strange results!

In the RX7 manual (which I got from iluvmyrx7.com) it says that the Front Leading plug should fire at -5deg BTDC (=5deg ATDC). Then the Front Trailing plug should fire at -20deg BTDC (=20deg ATDC). So the split between Leading and Trailing in this case is 15deg. Is all this info correct? (I thought that most piston engines fire at approx 10deg BTDC when cranking over).

With the Timing locked to 0.1deg, the Leading/Trailing Split set to 0deg and the timing gun on Front Trailing, when I pointed the timing gun at the bottom pulley I saw the (Timing) Mark jump between 2 locations on the pulley. These were at approx 20deg and 30deg BTDC. Why did this happen? The Datalogger shows Front Leading and Front Trailing both to be 0.1deg BTDC.

Next I tried exactly the same test after having set ALL the values in the (correct) Ignition Map to -10deg BTDC. But still the (Timing) Mark was jumping about in the same area BEFORE TDC. Why? The Datalogger shows Front Leading and Front Trailing both to be 10.0deg BTDC. Maybe the Ignition Map doesn't like negative values?

I have already asked Haltech (AUS) for help, and upgraded to the latest Firmware (Build 26). I'm also thinking about putting some more marks on the bottom pulley at regular intervals (eg. 3 marks for 10, 20, 30deg BTDC), and then repeating the tests.

Any more ideas?

Adrian

AdrianE

I found out the main reason why the ignition timing was so much off target. It was the 'CAS Trigger Angle' and 'Tooth offset' values on the Ignition Setup screen. I copied other peoples' values of 67.0deg and 5 respectively, but these are wrong for my setup. So I changed them to 30deg and 2 respectively (I worked this out from Posts on this forum and the Haltech Manual). I checked with my timing gun to see the difference. Now the (Timing) Mark on the bottom pulley lines up correctly with the Pointer (ie. on the casing behind the pulley). Problem solved!

Hold on a minute ... I checked again with the timing gun and could see the (Timing) Mark on the pulley jump to approx. 10deg advance, and then back to Zero again. I can see this happen on the 3D Ignition Map (0deg then to 10deg) in the Halwin software. Also the Leading / Trailing Split is jumping from 0deg to 176deg on its 3D Map. This is with the engine NOT cranking (ie. 0rpm). Why is this happening? Could be a bug in the Halwin Software related to mappings at 0rpm?

Mr. LV

See I told you. I only speak from experience. The angles, tooth offset, etc. is the hardest part about setting them up.

AdrianE

I am still having problems with the Ignition Timing. I don't think it's firing on every RPM. I've recorded some more datalogs (rate= approx. 20per second), and I can see the Home Counter jumping around (eg. from 11 to 44 in 1/20th of a sec). Why does it do it? Probably due the same issues as the E6X. I'm not impressed...

Mike_REW

iTrader: (2)

Is the datalog showing the correct RPM while cranking?

AdrianE

Its difficult to say whether the RPM is correct or not, but it is not as smooth as I'd expect. Cranking RPM is approx. 200-250rpm but there is the odd spike here and there as well (especially when the engine starts to fire up). The engine dies after a few seconds, so the datalogs are short.

I've attached 2 logs, and these show what the Home and Trigger counters are doing (ie. they're not incrementing by 1, they're jumping instead). If this is similar to what other people have seen on the E6X, I'd like to know.

Thanks,

Adrian

Mike_REW

iTrader: (2)

Have you double checked your wiring to your crank angle sensor?

Sorry I have not played with a E11 yet,good thing this stuff applies to any EMS

AdrianE

I've checked the wiring to the CAS (Home, Trigger and Grounds) and it is wired up correctly, but the cable is NOT shielded in the engine bay area. I thought it would be shielded as standard (even for the OE Mazda ECU)!

I have now re-wired the CAS using Phoenix Gold triple shielded Interconnect cable (as I had some spare), and also wrapped it in some aluminium heat wrap. I just have to connect the water and air temp sensors in the engine bay, and then I can see if all this works OK...

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

you also might need to adjust the trigger gains

AdrianE

Thanks. I had to set the Home and Trigger Gains to 0, to get a good signal without distortion. Also I adjusted the Pre-Gain Filters for Home and Trigger from 0 to 2; this also helped. I just have to get the fuelling right now (it's 2deg C here in the UK!) ...

AdrianE

Well I tried to start the engine yesterday, and adjusted the fuelling from approx 4ms to 8ms but it still wouldn't fire up properly. I tried adjusting the Cooling Temp, Throttle Pump, Post Sart maps etc , but it gets up to 700rpm and then dies. The CAS Home and Trigger signals look good now, so what can it be?

It might be a problem with the stock Ignition module. Maybe its only firing half of the time that it should fire. I only have a basic timing gun, which I have used to check that all of the spark plugs are firing. I guess I might need an 'oscilliscope' to check the "rate" of firing for each plug lead. But these are expensive and I don't want to have to trailer the car to a garage that has one. Are there any other ways to check each plug lead is firing at the correct rate?

Thanks,

Adrian

AdrianE

Has anybody got a datalog of the Home and Trigger signals, so I can compare to mine?

eViLRotor

iTrader: (2)

Just throwing out ideas. The E6 series has a setting called 'Igntion Divide By'. Does the E11 have that as well. Make sure it is set to '2'...

AdrianE

Thanks but I haven't got that setting in the software for the E11v2. I think I need the use of a timing gun with RPM readout (eg. from snap-on) just to check that the spark plugs are firing when they are supposed to...

AdrianE

I borrowed a Snap On gun from a friend. I confirmed that all the plug leads are firing when they are supposed to, and that Lead-1 and Lead-2 fire twice as often as Trail-1 and Trail-2. Also I found out I had Lead-1 and Trail-1 plug leads swapped around by mistake! However there is still a problem starting the engine! It gets up to 1200rpm max, and then the engine dies after a couple of seconds. I looked at the Home and Trigger Counters in the Datalogs I took, and found out that the Home Counter jumps values eg. 1,3,4,7 when the rpm starts to climb. The Trigger Counter does the same thing.

Now I think this problem is due to the Reluctor circuitry in the E11v2 NOT the CAS wiring in my car. I have the Home and Trigger Gains set to minimum (ie. 0), because any other Gain values distort the signal enough to stop the RPM climbing above 200rpm.

Either my E11v2 is faulty or there is a circuit design problem related in the Reluctor circuitry. Maybe the Home and Trigger signals need 'attenuating' (and not boosting via 'Gain'). I'm going to email Haltech again and see if they admit that there are design problems with the E11v2.

Here are some Logs I took to demonstrate the problems:-

Has anybody else got an E11v2, that works properly on their 3rd gen RX-7?

Adrian

AdrianE

I have now sent an email to Haltech (Australia) detailing the E11v2's CAS (Home and Trigger) problems. I have also told that I will be expecting a REFUND from the place I bought it from (www.horsepowerinabox.com).

RETed

E11 is set to run full sequential injection, and this option is gray-out so you can't change it.
It defaults to "1" when set this way.


-Ted

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

I had the problem with my car starting and dying... in the end it was because when I rewired my fuel pump I just spliced into the stock wiring system for the fuel pump and the stock Relay would click off causing feedback and the haltech Fuel Pump relay would switch off the simply fix for this was to Disconnect the Stock Relay. Have you checked this?