When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
We are putting together a Group Buy for the Samberg Roll Cage. The Roll cage is a 4-point bolt-in cage made from 1 3/4" .120 wall chromoly tubing with a strut tower brace/harness bar. Excellent construction and is able to retain the factory interior panels. We need at least 9 people for a price of $925 each. Shipping is an additional $75. So it comes out to $1,000 shipped. If you have any questions please let me know your also able to order through our website at the group buy pricing:
Purchased one a while back from Justin directly, had issues with the rear mount behind welded backwards or drilled incorrectly. Brought it up to Justin, never heard back. Not sure if it was a batch issue or isolated case. I can provided pictures if needed.
@Chris2ndGen - I'm sorry you had that experience, seems very odd. I would def. try and contact Samberg as they have been very good with communicating with me and standing by their products. It is worth mentioning that they have changed their construction method on these cages by going with a CNC laser cutter to assure perfect fitment. Also have had very good feedback from other members here running this same cage.
@tys93r1fd - Thank you! Hope we can get people interested and get this thing going!
I can't comment on fitment as I haven't gotten it back yet... but man, it's a nice piece.
Even more surprising is how light it is. I haven't put it on a scale (I will) but it can't be more than, 30-40lbs tops? It's also SMALL, I forget how compact the interior really is - 48 x 42 x 20 IIRC.
I'll reach out to Justin again.
It is definitely a well made part. Fitment is very tight but once everything is settled in its great. I went with the optional diagonal bar as well. Keeps full seat function for the driver side but you lose 1 click (when moving the seat back) on the passenger side. Nothing crazy.
Any idea if this fits with rear seats? It should, I believe the bins sit farther forward that the seats. But then my son would need a helmet to sit in the back on a cruise...lol he'd probably love it tho.
I wonder if it's possible to get the rear shock tower bars to be bolt on to the main hoop so removal could be easier. It's a really beautiful piece I've been eyeing for a while, perhaps this could be my solution.
Well, street-ability is the idea behind a roll bar as opposed to a full roll cage.
The bars are supposed to be behind you for safety and also not to impede ingress/egress.
That said- **** happens.
Your reclining seat back could fail, your tall friend could drive or ride in your car and put the seat too far back...
I have been interested in this design for a while (as made by original shop) and am going to sit in my FD and check to see that the main hoop will be entirely behind my fixed seats.
Khan Racing-
will this roll bar be available with the optional diagonal bar through this group buy?
Can you guys make one more for street so that there is enough room to put foam padding on it?
I think this is solidly a "street" cage. It looks tight, but I think we'll be able to wrap some padding around it. Also, as Blue TII mentioned - it's not like this is a full cage with a bar inches from your head / door entry. A LOT would have to go wrong to come in contact with it.
I am interested in it, I have been trying to figure out if this meets all specs for SCCA usage... I think it does but I am no expert in the area. I tried looking at old threads relating to the bar and didn't find any 100% confirmation... so I just emailed asking directly.
Hopefully if this goes through I can go drive an pick it up locally since I am an hour away from the shop according to the address...
elfking I am interested in it, I have been trying to figure out if this meets all specs for SCCA usage...
I am going to give Khan Racing a chance to answer this in the thread.
You may PM me if you want.
Feel free to post information here, we don't race with SCCA. This would benefit all, after all this is a forum for sharing knowledge!
This roll bar is marketed for street use but reading over solo roll bar rules this bar should not have issue with the optional diagonal bar. Material thickness should be fine, all that's additionally needed is inspection holes.
When searching for answers on here I always trust your information and opinion BLUE TII!
This is all heresay- information I have gathered reading this rx7club forum researching this roll bar because it has always been my favorite design.
Others will be able to fill in the names, dates, etc or one could do the same research I did and write all that down.
The originator of this design was the proprietor of the Race Shop rollbars who made them for the now defunct M2. I say "this design" because it is different than the usual AutoPower, Kirk, etc design in that the rear bars mount to the top of the shock towers instead of into the rear wheel well.
Mr Race Shop got into a big debate with the SCCA because someone there said his design did not meet their criteria for solo competition (GCR spec full cage required for SCCA door to door racing).
-------
I believe the points of dispute were-
1) The SCCA solo rules say the roll bar must attach to the vehicle frame. On unibody cars this is defined as reinforced boxed sections elsewhere in the rules. However, the rules specifically state that on unibody cars the roll bar may also attach to the floor, as long as the load is spread through as large an area as possible with backing plates the full dimensions of the mounting plate.
On the FD the shock towers are quite strong and tie into the reinforced boxed arch over the outside of the wheel well and the reinforced boxed section inside the wheel well where the subframe mounts.
In some cars like BMW the shock towers are notoriously weak and tear out under normal shock loads (even without a coil spring on the shock). Well, the entire rear sub-frames tear out of M3s, so just don't race those poorly engineered cars.
The "correct" spot for the rear bars according to some in the SCCA is where the AutoPower and Kirk bars attach. The single sheet, wide, fairly flat upper fender arch area.
On the FD this area is much weaker against tearing out than the upper shock mount. Also, it is neither the floor nor a reinforced boxed section of the unibody- so I have no idea how it became the "correct" spot.
-------
2) The SCCA specifies the mounting plate and backing plate material and thickness for the roll bar and that each plate must have at least 3 through bolts of minimum spec.
Can the upper shock mount meet that specification?
It can, although the SCCA has very strong rules against the use of Aluminum in roll bar design, so all the aftermarket upper shock mounts are not legal just for that. Also, the rules do not say that the backing plate may serve another function (such as attaching the suspension).
This could be viewed as a good reason not to attach at the suspension- why use a backing plate/bolts that are constantly in use seeing stresses for the safety gear of the roll bar when you could use backing plates/bolts elsewhere that will only be in use and see stresses when the car rolls.
------
3) The SCCA defines the roll bar as a device to serve as safety gear (not to reinforce the chassis for performance).
The Race Shop design mounts to the suspension mounting points in the rear so it definitely reinforces the chassis more than if it was on the big wide flexy tear prone upper wheel arch.
SCCA solo rules definitions- "roll bar / roll cage
A tubular steel structure designed to provide the passenger compartment with additional crush resistance in the event of an accident. A roll bar/cage will always include a hoop behind the driver that provides crush resistance from overhead forces and may additionally include structure that provides crush resistance from other directions. Roll bar/cage structures may be used to provide additional chassis rigidity and attachment for suspension and other components, if preparation rules allow for it. See Appendix C or the Club Racing General Competition
Rules for additional requirements & design methodologies."
And from Appendix C- "APPENDIX C - SOLOŽ ROLL BAR STANDARDS
A. BASIC DESIGN CONSIDERATIONS
1.
The basic purpose
of the roll bar is to protect the driver in case the vehicle
rolls over. This purpose should not be forgotten."
I looked into the rules for Street, Street Touring, Street Prepared, Street Modified and Prepared solo classes and they do not mention the roll bar being allowed "to provide additional chassis rigidity and attachment for suspension and other components".
So, according to solo rules it is not allowed (SCCA solo golden rule- if it doesn't say you CAN do something you CANNOT do it).
Also known as the racers bane; we want to know exactly what we can't do.
------
5) 3/16" inspection hole required (easy to add).
------
6) All braces recommended to be same diameter as main hoop (just a recommendation, but can cause bias).
------
Materials-
Then there is a separate issue not related to design of this roll bar, but materials.
The SCCA does not want you to use 4130 (Cromoly) tube.
They allow it, but do not allow you to run a smaller dimension tube than DOM mild steel, so the weight break is nearly non-existent. In many sanctioning bodies, you get to run a smaller 4130 tube because it is 4x stronger than DOM mild steel in tensile strength; the weight savings then are substantial.
SCCA doesn't want you to use 4130 because they have found in actual practice it cracks. They considered banning its use.
4130 chromoly must be preheated, TIG welded with the right filler and then heated again to relieve stress or else it gets under weld cracking over time. The thicker the 4130 tube the easier it cracks.
The SCCA does not like the welding of dis-similar metals in roll cage construction (not allowed in GCR, not mentioned in solo rules) so, mounting plates should also be 4130 if the tubes are to make scrutineers happy.
------
One SCCA scrutineer on this board who knows the FD chassis and SCCA rules equally well said he would have NO PROBLEM passing the Race Shop roll bar (I inquired about the original mild steel version).
So, your results may vary.
I am sure you can make this style roll bar compliant with the SCCA, but for the above reasons many SCCA scrutineers will operate with a bias against it from the first second they see it.
------
This roll bar is my favorite style for the FD. I found out all of the above researching because I want to use it- I am not bias against it.
If you want to do your own research (which I always recommend), check page 238 of this SCCA solo rules document.
Let us know!, so far we haven't had much interest as we wanted. But I'd love to get this going!
I'd be interested in one of these that can be easily removed like I mentioned before, with the rear section removable as well. But I guess since there isnt much interest, no need to waste yours or justins time. :-(
@BLUE TII - Thank you very much for all the helpful information
@silverTRD - We have had a couple people interested off the forum, going to see if any interest for this picks up in the coming week before blowing it dead.
08-01-16, 11:23 AM
