turbo-minivan

im brand new to these, never had or worked on one before so forgive my stupid questions.
im putting an 85 13B in a vintage 1940s style speedster based on a 1928 ford frame. it will be a little hot rod for city streets and tearing up dirt roads outside of town. obviously i want to strip things down as bare as possible for simplicity. im wanting to clean up the motor of any un-needed vacuum solenoids and bits but im unsure how much i can strip. can anyone point me right? all of this vacuum stuff on top... can i remove it all? is any of it necessary to make the engine run? or is it all for things like vac controlled flip up head lights, heater box flaps, and so on??

all i need is for the engine itself to run and drive. no need for any other luxuries or accessories.

i have a complete harness and computer, im told the trany behind it is from a turbo car (is there a way to confirm?).
heres the project as it sits right now, and the last 2 photos are what im wondering about. there looks to be 2 sets of vacuum solenoids, a small diaphragm of some kind, and a larger one under the intake that looks like a typical EGR. can i remove all of these? or do i need them?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

welcome to the board.

i guess the simple answer to your question is no. the engine doesn't need that stuff to actually run and given the fact that this is a totally custom application, you can probably get away with stripping more than an Rx-7. that stuff is collectively known as the Rat's Nest. it's mostly emissions related items. you can search for thread in the Gen II section on rat's nest removal or you check out the writeup on Rotary Resurrection's site.

i am surely not the best source for ECU knowledge, but i think you will have a few issues to address. it will be looking for certain things for the engine to run right.

by the way, that's not an '85 (S3) it's an '86-'88 (S4) engine. that's just an FYI, it doesn't affect much as far as your question is concerned. the tranny is indeed a T2 tranny.

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

is this bare enough for u? altho it's an old school 13b, the same would still apply to the 86 and later model engine u have. remove the CAS and drop in a distributor and first gen coils or use one of many tutorials for the use with fc coils. get a carb setup for ur 6 port engine. can't get much simpler than that.

lduley

iTrader: (1)

thats pretty bad ***

like what was said above, just remove and block off all vacuum lines and ports, put in a distributor and 1st gen coils, do a little wiring for the alternator, turn the key and go

your gonna want bigger tires all around, you'll destroy those bike tires first clutch dump

ps: I think you should add an ooga horn

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

My honest response to you is you should have looked for an older carbed engine if you wanted the truly barest engine possible. However that EFI engine you've got there can be stripped down pretty well if you swap to a carbed setup. Otherwise it will have to look something like GySgtFrank's MG Midget engine.

turbo-minivan

thanks for the reply's guys!! i think i will look into doing a carb set up. i have a little M90 supercharger off a GM 3800 that i may fab up a manifold for if im going that route.

so if im hearing right, i can simply ditch all the wiring, get or fab up a carb intake, and get an earlier 1st gen distributor, and im good to go? obviously some tuning work will be needed with a blower but is that all i need to swap out? just distributor and carb?

thanks for the info guys!

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much, and some coils

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

If you go with the blower- it is easy to kill the front bearing in these motors with excessive belt tension (even with stock serpentine accessories' belt on later 13Bs)!

Use a Gilmer drive for the blower.

turbo-minivan

^good advise. thank you. do you think that it would still be too much strain given that the only other accessory id be running off the crank will be the alternator? (and water pump obviously).


so i had a few minutes this afternoon and i tore the rats nest off the top. definitely makes things look cleaner and helps me feel less overwhelmed, but now i have a few more newb questions (please forgive my ignorance)........



^these 2 vacuum vent sensor looking things.... can i remove these if going carbureted? what exactly are they and are they needed? there are 2 more i see on the lower portion of the intake manifold (which i will likely be fabbing my own version of for the blower).




^ those vac sensors mentioned above have lines going to this block on the front of the motor. again, can this be removed if going carbureted? what is its function? (look at all the oil mess! i need a new cover plate gasket. good thing its an easy engine bay to work in!)




^ i am assuming the oil fill tube is pressed in. id like to remove it and shorten it if possible. is there a proper way of getting it out? (perhaps its threaded in?) (perhaps im just retarded?)



^ this one may sound real stupid but do all of these upper ports act as intake? or are the outer ones part of an EGR design. when looking at it with my lack of knowledge and trying to see how the oddly spaced multi-ports work, i cant seem to get my head around it.


again, sorry for the super stupid questions, but they gota be asked because i dont even know what things are called in order to use the search function. haha.


heres how it sits and looks right now with my 92 buick blower resting on top for looks. (might need to mount the alternator on the side). =) thanks guys!!

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

V-belt or serpentine belt at stock recommended tension will be fine for the front bearing with a blower. Only problem is it will slip and if you tighten it up it can kill the bearing.

The nipples on the "block" and lower intake are oil injectors, you can take those out and put short bolts in and then put your two stroke mix in the gas tank when you get gas.

That block with the lines coming out of it to the oil injectors is the Oil Metering Pump. You take that off and use a block off plate when you remove the oil injectors.

You pull and twist to take the oil filler tube out of the "block"- yes, just light press fit in.

The four upper round things and the oval things between them are the intake ports. The weird sleeve thing in the upper two closed them off at lower rpm as they are higher duration ports (its like Vtec).

The two big round things below are the exhaust ports.

The four little round things below that are the port air/egr passages- its good to block those with the exhaust flange.

The egr was where the block off plate on top near the fuel injectors on the "block" is on your engine.

Side note- you MUST run a fairly large oil cooler on a rotary as the rotors are internally oil bath cooled. The oil outlet is that big banjo bolt on the aluminum front cover and the return line goes to the big banjo bolt on the rear housing down low on the same Dr. side.

turbo-minivan

^ thanks!
do the oil injectors simply use/inject oil from the pan?
could a guy get away with running just the 2? or 4 is a must? .....if i were to keep using them.

i feel like such a **** here. haha. typically diesels are my thing, so this is another world. heres what lives beside this speedster.... dynod 2 weeks ago at 733hp/1283tq @ 3500rpm. weighs 3100 lbs and is near unmanageable.
i post this to make myself feel better about looking like such a child when it comes to these engines. haha.











heres one of it breaking a dyno on fathers day with an open -4 line of nitrous. didnt get the power read out due to the break, but ill bet it was close to or just over 1000hp for that split second.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, basically the Oil Metering Pump gets fed through a tiny circuitous path from the oil pump (yes, right from the oil pan) so it is a lower pressure oil system (from pressure drop).

You can leave two oil injectors or add the other two back into whatever manifold you make- or take them all out. The more oil injected or premixed the longer the engine lasts.

In NA racing you use a bunch of premix in the fuel for a little less high rpm wear and safety margin so it smokes at idle a bit like a 2 stroke.

Probably the way to go for a rat rod just for the blue smoke if nothing else.

Nice diesel

turbo-minivan

How do these oilers react to a blower or "cylinder pressure" from boost? Will boost push the oil back into the lines as it overcomes the oil feed pressure?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the turbo cars have the same ones, there is a vacuum line on top that goes to atmosphere. and there is a check valve in those things too, you should make sure its working, they usually are stuck

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

How do these oilers react to a blower or "cylinder pressure" from boost? Will boost push the oil back into the lines as it overcomes the oil feed pressure?

They are designed for boost as the pressure above will overcome the manifold pressure below and still allow them to operate as j9fd3s says.

What you must NOT do is put a vacuum source on them- they go to a fresh filtered air source (nipple on intake manifold inline with airflow for no vacuum as opposed to at 90 deg angle for vacuum).

turbo-minivan

^ perfect, thanks. ill likely run all 4 but well see when it comes down to making the new intake.
i probly wont be working too much with the engine for a bit as i need to finish the steering and build a fiberglass body next. then i can do some more engine work.
thanks for all your guys' input and help so far!!

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Its usually easier to get the engine all set and ready to go, than build the body around it, just my opinion

turbo-minivan

not when the body is this simple....
basically just a single piece fiberglass tunnel that will be able to clip on and off.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i like! i've wanted to build a car like that for a while, i'm a little more inspired by the Grand Prix cars from the late 20's, but its still cool, and its so light, its going to be fast no matter what.

the most bare i think you can get a rotary, is to have a magnetic pickup for the ignition on the flywheel, and a carb. you still would need an MSD or something like that, two coils and such, but those can hide. or maybe it looks cool on top of the engine.

the rotary has a normal ignition, except that there are two ignitions, one for the leading and one for the trailing. the older rotaries actually had 2 distributors, then 1, and then they had your crank sensor in place of the distributor, and then they used a magnetic pickup on the crank pulley.

turbo-minivan

hi again guys....
so in order to go carbed, im going to need a distributor and coils like you have said. sorry to be such a newb but what year of distributor and what year of coils should i be looking for?

Slides

If I was going to run one, especially with the blower i would stick with injection, if it was a turbo motor to match the gearbox the factory injectors will flow enough for you to make ~240rwhp and you have everything ready to go. It would be a very simple ecu wire in on a car like that.

Be aware that rotaries need about 1/3 extra air (and a bit more fuel again for thermal management) to make the same power as piston motors.

If you are determined to go carbed with the blower you want a 12a turbo dizzy, I'm not sure if they released them in the US I think they may have only been JDM. There are still plenty of 12AT bits floating around in Australia however so I imagine you could pick one up over there. The reason you want a 12AT dizzy is that they have your usual mechanical advance for rpm as well as dual acting vacuum/boost pots (which retard timing with boost) where the normal dizzys only have vacuum advance. This means you can maintain decent timing and response from off throttle and have appropriate ignition timing on boost.



The diesel rig is tuff.

turbo-minivan

^ i am determined to go carbed as much as it sucks and may not be as reliable, but i have to keep it as wire free and clean/simple as possible.
ive been working on the body braces and steering the past few weeks so i havent realy touched the motor any more since stripping it as pictured above, but i have been thinking about this blower and boost....
i dont plan to run too much boost. i dont want to find myself in the uncontrollable power/always breaking something realm that im in with the diesel car.
but the blower will look cool and be cool if i can do it right.
any ideas on what i should shoot for for a mild boost range? this motor has a street port done on it, so that will help its NA power as is, but if i were to shoot for 200-220hp with the blower, what kind of boost do you think i would need?
(guesstimates obviously)

the guy i bought the motor from said with its street port i should be in the 170-175hp range?? does that sound about right?

or should i forget the blower and just race port the hell out of it and stay NA?

Slides

Seems I overlooked the fact it was a 6 port, doesn't matter too much.


I would definitely go with the blower. I'm assuming given that you want it to be minimalist that you don't want to fit an intercooler? I think if you stick to 0.5-0.7bar with plenty of fuel and factory base timing on a boost retard dizzy you should be fine. The 6 port should be pretty rev happy as it is if the ports have been tickled.

heynoman

iTrader: (5)

Did you purchase the engine and transmission combo together from the same person??

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

anything 1981-85. don't waste time looking for 12A-T parts and then paying a premium for them because you can make the ones more readily available to you work just fine.
if you are talking about power at the flywheel, you're good to get the power you quoted above no problem without forced induction. it will depend on which carburetor/intake you end up running though.

if you are talking about power at the wheels, then 175 shouldn't be an issue, but 200+ will be.