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Finally dyno'd the car!
Ended up making 538whp and 406wtq on 25.5psi
We were on the dyno for over 3 hours making pull after pull chasing boost control.
I really wish I had tuned closed loop boost control before we headed to the dyno. Boost creep with the exhaust cutout made it a pain in the ***.
All in all, the car made 55 full pulls and never missed a beat. Ran as high as 28 psi on pump+water injection and the motor didn't leak or smoke or misbehave at all (almost).
On the last and final pull, the car hit limiter so hard it literally blew apart my eBay wastegate cutout.
We found screws on the ground under car lol.
I had to make a 50 mile drive home with the cutout open. My ears are still ringing.
I still have some stuff to fix. Fuel pressure was tanking at higher RPM and boost. I'm still using stock rails and a Walbro 400 is fairly tapped out at these power levels.
I also had a BIZARRE result from removing the air filter. The car made 4PSI and 60WHP LESS without the filter!
See this thread for more details on the filter
Probably due to an internal velocity stack and IAT rises since now you've got warm engine bay vs. location in front of radiator. Makes sense!
Great power on such a minimalistic fuel setup. <3 Yu crazy mang!
IATs were almost the same. The 60* inlet tube ***** the opening to the turbo just past the side of the radiator. I also had the hood on and 2 large fans on. The car stayed surprising cool all night and IATs never went over 105*F with back-to-back pulls.
The velocity stack is an interesting point. The base of the air filter goes from either 5 or 6" down to 4 with a nice radius.
I just saw your other post in the single turbo section. Interesting now that I know the AITs were the same.
Pretty nice torque curve if you ask me, super predictable power.
How does it feel ?
Thanks Elliot,
I've very happy with how the car drives. I just wish the roads were a bit straighter around here! Driving home from the dyno, the first pull on the high way blew the tires right off in 3rd gear. Before the dyno, second gear was suspect, but I rarely felt it move around in third. Going to try to play it safe through the remainder of the fall and buy some 275 NT05s for next year, currently on 255 Continental Contiprocontacts which suck. I'm going to hopefully finish up wiring traction control tomorrow. I have to figure out why the front wheel speed drops out after 45mph. I already have a trim pot on the dash to adjust allowable slip% to be able to tune the traction control in the weather. It works great on my friends 550wtq turbo E30 with 225s.
IAT's were 90*F with the filter off. Basically the same as every other run. I only ever say runs over 100F at the very end when we were pushed for time and were trying to finish the timing map.
There is still lots to be done with boost response. I'm running open loop control for now and I have the duty cycle at 100% at 0 rpm and ramp down to 40% at 4000rpm and carries down to 35% at 5000 and taper back up to 45 at redline. It's still pretty course and COMPLETELY different with the cutout open.
I only ever did one comparison with and without the cutout. It made 2psi more boost with the cutout open, which isn't exactly fair to compare. But it did make 60whp more on the same timing and slightly richer AFR. Considering I was making around 13hp/psi up high, it should be good for a solid 40whp by itself. I was able to repair it today and loc-tite'd the hardware so it should stay together. After all the headaches I've had with it, I should have just bought a Tial or Precision!
Yeah…
I feel like I’m kind of at a cross roads. If I want more power out of the car, I’ll need to sacrifice quite a bit of drivability. I drive the car a lot and even the large street port can be annoying some times. Going bigger on the porting, or SemiPP would probably require a better flowing exhaust which would mean the car would be louder which I also don’t want. Last, which I know seems dumb, but getting horrible gas mileage and having to break out the funnel and 2stroke ever other morning gets ******* old.
I know I sound like a whiner, but it’s my car and my money. I’m sure I’ll own another rotary car in the future, but some good deals fell into my lap and I’m going to try the V8. I bought an aluminum 5.3 late-model truck engine, Z06 heads, T56 Magnum with twin disk, and a Ronin 8.8” IRS kit. I’m going to keep the Megasquirt and convert it to run the V8 and likely go with a Borg Warner S369 so I can have something that spools quick but will still make 650-700whp. The plan is to hit up some of the roll-racing events out here on the East coast next season.
My whole setup is for sale. I’ll be making a partout thread as soon as the forums cooperate, but it’s not letting me create a new thread at the moment lol. I should probably take that as a sign…
Yeah
I feel like Im kind of at a cross roads. If I want more power out of the car, Ill need to sacrifice quite a bit of drivability. I drive the car a lot and even the large street port can be annoying some times. Going bigger on the porting, or SemiPP would probably require a better flowing exhaust which would mean the car would be louder which I also dont want. Last, which I know seems dumb, but getting horrible gas mileage and having to break out the funnel and 2stroke ever other morning gets ******* old.
Out of all of that, I agree with the horrible gas mileage and premixing. Its sad, but I feel like I accomplish something big when I got the tune down to 250 mile per tank
Originally Posted by Shainiac
I know I sound like a whiner, but its my car and my money. Im sure Ill own another rotary car in the future, but some good deals fell into my lap and Im going to try the V8. I bought an aluminum 5.3 late-model truck engine, Z06 heads, T56 Magnum with twin disk, and a Ronin 8.8 IRS kit. Im going to keep the Megasquirt and convert it to run the V8 and likely go with a Borg Warner S369 so I can have something that spools quick but will still make 650-700whp. The plan is to hit up some of the roll-racing events out here on the East coast next season.
My whole setup is for sale. Ill be making a partout thread as soon as the forums cooperate, but its not letting me create a new thread at the moment lol. I should probably take that as a sign
Nah man, its all good, your car, your $$$. Too bad I am broke, otherwise I would take the turbo and intercooler
More than anything, I thought it'd be wise to try and make my money back while everything I built is still in great shape. I'm sure I could get more power out of my setup on more boost, better fuel, bigger exhaust, but I'd really start to worry about reliability considering I drive the car so much. I've really enjoyed the car and setup, but I want more power and a reliable drivetrain (with better gearing!). The T56 Magnum and 8.8" rear should make the car much more relaxing on the interstate. 3500rpms buzzing along gets annoying haha
Still, 540 WHP is nothing to shake a stick at. That's impressive, but I completely get it. There is an FD thread where the guy went from a GT35 based setup at 527 WHP, to a crate LS3 swap and he hasnt looked back. I think it was xler8 (sp) who did .it
So, a little update. I've sold pretty much all of my rotary setup and spare parts. It kinda bummed me out, as I feel like I will probably own another rotary one day and it'd be worth keeping the parts, but I can't justify storing all that stuff for a maybe.
I've also purchased most of the big ticket items for the V8 swap. The engine is back together and Ive had it in and out of the car a few times to get an idea of what fits and what doesnt. The current goal is 700whp/700tq and to kick some *** roll racing this summer.
Heres a rundown of what Ive got so far:
Engine: 2009 GM LC9 5.3L
Aluminum block,
243 casting LS6 cylinder heads
New rings, but stock rods and pistons
MLS head gaskets and ARP head bolts
Brian Tooley Racing 0.660" lift dual valve springs
Brian Tooley Racing "Stage 2" Turbo cam
LS6 intake manifold
ICT Billet accessory brackets for power steering(!) and alternator
Turbo stuff
(2X) Borg Warner EFR 6758s INDYCAR Turbos! Pretty small but should still make 700whp and spool like crazy
(2X) 44mm wastegates
50mm BOV
Stock truck exhaust manifolds and SCH10 304SS for the turbo hotside
Drivetrain
Tremec T56 Magnum, wide ratio
Monster LT1-SC twin disk 1000whp clutch/fw
Ronin Speedworks 8.8 IRS swap, 3.73 gears
Body:
Shine RE-spec front end with 90mm HIDs
Shine carbon sunroof delete
Still need to buy:
Megasquirt MS3PRO-Ultimate ECU/wiring harness
New seats (Mazdaspeed3 OEM?)
Steering wheel hub/quick release for my Momo 330mm wheel
Right around $10k so far. $3600 of that were just the T56 Magnum and clutch which is still about $1500 cheaper than retail plus shipping. I probably could have found a Fbody T56 and a single plate clutch for $2500, but it would have eventually broken and cost me more than the Magnum which is way stronger and better shifting. I have also found some sick deals. Those turbos retail for almost $2000 each, I didn't pay that lol. I also do 100% of the labor myself which is a big savings.
I still have probably another $4k to spend I think. It's all the $2-400 **** I need now. Intercooler piping, couplers, driveshaft, fuel hose, AN fittings, ect. I should at least have the engine buttoned up and in the car for the last time by the end of Feb. Then it's all the exhaust and intercooler fab. I have a shitty 120V chop saw and a 120V MIG welder, so that's not a fast process either.
I know you're right, but I was planning on running the 3.73s for now. The trans has the 0.5:1 6th gear, so it cruise great, but first will be very short.
I know you're right, but I was planning on running the 3.73s for now. The trans has the 0.5:1 6th gear, so it cruise great, but first will be very short.
Does your rear have LSD? If not just save yourself the headache and rebuild it with an LSD and the gearing you want. If yes I'd rebuild the LSD and throw in the gears you want.
500+ WHP is going to suck with 3.73s. You won't get traction until 4th gear unless you run drag radials.
Does your rear have LSD? If not just save yourself the headache and rebuild it with an LSD and the gearing you want. If yes I'd rebuild the LSD and throw in the gears you want.
500+ WHP is going to suck with 3.73s. You won't get traction until 4th gear unless you run drag radials.
I have 400 WHP with the same 6th gear and 3.73s.
Well ****. I was hoping it wouldn't be that bad. I was planning on dailying on a 275 NT05 and running a 15" radial at the track. I already have the capability to do boost-by-gear and traction control, but it might be worth doing the gears while the diff is out of the car.
Well,
There's a little to update. I just started a new job this month and am closing on my first house in a few weeks, so my car has taken somewhat of a back seat. Im also moving out of my rented work shop when I close on the house which means Ill lose access to a lift, welder, plasma torch, and a lot of nice specialty tools. BUT, Ill be moving into my very own 32x24 garage with a second story and additional storage. After getting moved into the house, it will be nice to not have to drive 45 minutes to my workshop to get anything done on the car!
Since the last update, I buttoned up everything on the engine. This includes new piston rings, cam, pushrods, LS7 lifters, ARP headbolts, every single gasket, Fbody oil pan with oil drains for turbos, Improved Racing oil pan baffle, and going through everything to make sure the engine was healthy. I ended up finding a collapsed Displacement on Demand lifter which is most likely why the engine ended up being replaced by the previous owner. Everything only had 70k on it.
I also installed the flywheel, clutch, starter and transmission. Twin disk clutches suck, btw. Theyre a royal pain to line up with the input shaft. Hopefully it drives nice and holds power. With everything bolted together, I installed the engine/trans in the car for (hopefully) the last time in a while.
I still need to install the Ronin 8.8 kit, set pinion angle, measure for a driveshaft, and modify the shifter to work with the stock location.
I also finished the brakes/clutch hydraulics. I had to replace the proportioning valve with a Wilwood one and move it out of the way of the exhaust manifold. I replaced some of the stock hardline with braided PTFE to make it easier. I also installed a Wilwood 7/8" clutch master cylinder with a Stu Kelly Motorsports adapter. The stock master is too small to push the fluid volume necessary for the T56 throw out bearing. I ended up just tapping the stock pedal clevis to 5/16-24(same as Wilwood master) and cut the Wilwood rod shorter as well as cutting the threads further up the rod. I was able to get zero pre-load on the master this way and have some threads in/out to adjust.
I also purchased my ECU and wiring harness. I got a MS3Pro Ultimate with the DIYAutotune full Plug n Play harness for a killer price. Its a seriously nice piece and has more features than anything for the price. I also purchased a Perfect Tuning Gauge which is a neat little LED 52mm gauge that interfaces with the MS3 via CAN to displace basically anything the ECU is monitoring. I also ran 8AN PTFE fuel line and (tried to) install a second Walbro 450. I got both pumps on the hanger, plumbed, and wired, but I cant seem to get them to fit between the baffles in the bottom of the tank I have them side-by-side and its a hair too wide. I think Im going to have to offset them. Anyone else had this experience?
My current project is finishing up the turbo stuff. I have one manifold tacked and hope to finish the other side this weekend. A friend is going to TIG weld the whole setup for me so it actually looks professional. I also bought a On3 twin turbo intercooler. It is a massive 3.5x10x24 core and was stupid cheap for $150 shipped with 2 Tial BOV flanges integrated into the end tanks. Ill see this weekend if it actually fits or if its way too big.
Im pretty set on the exhaust also. Theres not really room to do twin 3 downpipes out the back and retain power steering, so Im going to put an X-pipe between the water pump and radiator and do a 3 downpipe out both fenders in front of the front tire. Hopefully theres room to squeeze 2 small mufflers in there too
Finally finished fitting the turbo manifolds. They should be all TIG'd up by tonight and back on the car to start mocking up the downpipes. The wastegates are going to be a pain to route. I was limited in space with the heater hoses, power steering reservoir, and hood clearance.
I also was able to mock up my intercooler. It's an On3 Chinese intercooler with a 3.5"x10"x24" core, twin 2.5" inlets and a 4" (!) outlet. It's pretty massive, but i think it'll clear the hood after I cut out the latch striker and a couple ribs.
I also got a quick idea of what the downpipes will look like. I'm going to run the X-pipe below the water pump and pipe each outlet infront of the front tires. I'm pretty sure I can fit a little bullet muffler on each pipe too. If that's still too loud, I think I'll try something with a vacuum-actuated exhaust cutout in the downpipe to quiet it down for cruising and idle. My new house is 15 minutes away from one of the 2 E85 stations in the entire state of Connecticut. Hopefully the corn will keep the car from being so smelly with the front exit exhaust. If it's unbearable, I'll try running a 3" exhaust out the back and a cutout up front for boost only. With the manifolds like they are, I can't fit a downpipe down the drivers side of the engine and I really cant fit much larger than 3" down the passenger side.
Turbo manifolds are done.
Downpipes are mostly done. I need to figure out where I want each side to go through the fender, cut the holes, and extend the downpipes to exit the car. If you look closely in the photos, there is a small muffler in each downpipe as well as an exhaust cutout valve. Its a normally open cutout that closes with vacuum. Im going to wire it to a PWM output and a solenoid to be able to control how much it restricts the exhaust but the idea is to partially close it at idle and cruise to maintain some civility. I just bought a house and moved to a small, quiet beach that has an average age roughly double my own age. I dont think open downpipes will be appreciated lol
I also need to modify the radiator in/outlets. They dont clear the pass. side turbo. I also need to find a fan thatll work. Im probably going to buy a Ford Contour dual fan as theyre compact and flow a lot.
I was able to fit 2 Walbro 450s in the stock FC fuel sending unit, but I was less than happy with how the fit. They were a pain in the *** to install and one pump would be sitting against the bottom of the tank.
Since I dont have rearward exhaust anymore, I bought an Integrated Engineering twin pump surge tank and 2x AEM 380lph pumps. This should be enough fuel for my goals and will be a lot more safe if I ever run the tank low. I already have 8AN PTFE line ran to the stock tank, but it shouldnt be hard to modify to work with the surge tank.
I still need to rebuild the Ford 8.8 diff and get different gears. A friend has a set of 3.31s hes going to sell for cheap. If I cant find a great deal on a 31 spline TrueTrac, Ill probably rebuild the OEM Trac-Lok with carbon clutches and let it ride. I bought spherical bearings for the rear control arms bushings and Stu Kelly spherical toe rods. All that needs swapped over too.
The ECU and wiring should be pretty easy. I bought a MS3Pro Ultimate ECU and 58X LSX drop-in engine harness. Ill have to finish the little things like boost controller, gauges, ect, but 95% of the harness is populated. Ive been helping my friends setup and tune their MS3Pro Ultimate cars and have been really impressed. The traction control system works great. My friend was cutting 1.5s 60s in a full-weight LS-swapped E36 sedan with a stock BMW IRS and a TH400!
Thank you. I've since redone the entire turbo setup lol. I was frustrated with how intrusive the old turbo manifolds were. I was going to have lots of headaches with melted plug wires. Changing plugs was also an ordeal and it made running a full exhaust impossible.
I bout a set of Camaro ZL1 stock exhaust manifolds and welded the turbine housings directly to it for an OEM-style setup. They could not possibly be tighter to the block but they swing on and off the car super easy. They are VERY close to the steering rack, so we'll see how long inner tie rod boots last. I've yet to start the car, so who knows how well the oil will drain with the turbos 2" above the oil level. Worst case scenario I'll need a scavenge pump.
Lot's of other updates on my Norotors.com build thread. Most of the rotor heads could care less about the car now that it's turned to the dark side lol.
Twin Tial MV-R wastegates (holds as low as 4psi of boost 😃 )
T56 Magnum trans w/ Monster LT1-SC twin disk clutch
Ronin 8.8 IRS swap w/ 3.55 gears and Detroit TrueTrac LSD.
Custom 14 Brembo front brake swap
Custom 13.8 rear brake swap w/stock calipers
Forgestar CF5 18 wheels + 255/285 tires
Fortune Auto 500 coilovers
MS3Pro Ultimate ECU
External surge tank w/ twin AEM 380LPH pumps
8x 2200cc injectors
I got the car tuned this weekend and it ended up making 450whp/436wtq on spring pressure (4psi), 610whp/572wtq on 12.8psi and pump gas and 715whp/662wtq on 18psi.
It is a rocket ship. We have the timing and boost tapering in to protect the stock rods and pistons and it still makes 500wtq by 3000rpm and 600wtq around 3500rpm.
Now I need to turn my attention to cosmetics and make the car a little less Mad Max-y. Im getting too comfortable driving it around without a hood lol.
Also, I managed to crack the main case of the T56 Magnum the day after I had the car tuned. Still no idea how this happened. ☹
Trying to figure out how Im going to fix that. The transmission may need to be torn down and the case replaced.
If anyone is interested, I have way more info on my norotors.com build thread.
10-02-16, 03:47 PM
