The turbo gRoadster 7
02-20-15, 09:47 PM
#77
At only 12psi, you will be limited in the amount of boost you can run. Let's call the Nikki required 2.5psi a wash, so that leaves you with just 9.5 psi of head room.
Maybe I'm not doing my math right or something, but just 9.5psi above and beyond the initial 2.5 the carb needs, just doesn't sound that good to me.
The way I figure it, the MSD pump trades volume for pressure to get to 40psi. When you reduce its pressure all the way down to 2.5, you'd think it's now exchanging all that pressure for volume. The fuel pump motor is still spinning and it's still pushing fuel. I'm not entirely sure I'm correct and that it works this way, but it does provide more fuel than I need pretty easily.
Well, keep an eye on your wideband. Oh and if you can run a fuel pressure gauge taped to your windshield, that would be good.
Maybe I'm not doing my math right or something, but just 9.5psi above and beyond the initial 2.5 the carb needs, just doesn't sound that good to me.
The way I figure it, the MSD pump trades volume for pressure to get to 40psi. When you reduce its pressure all the way down to 2.5, you'd think it's now exchanging all that pressure for volume. The fuel pump motor is still spinning and it's still pushing fuel. I'm not entirely sure I'm correct and that it works this way, but it does provide more fuel than I need pretty easily.
Well, keep an eye on your wideband. Oh and if you can run a fuel pressure gauge taped to your windshield, that would be good.
02-21-15, 06:04 PM
#78
Yeah, I only plan on running the stock S5 boost (7#s?). So 9.5#s is fine for me.
2 years ago when I initiated this project a buddy of mine (a professional mechanic of 15 years and he has boosting experience) told me I needed a high flow low pressure pump. At the time I didn't fully understand what he meant, but now I think I get it. This Mallory is made for boosting on carbs (I think its also made for a GIANT V8 that guzzles fuel like a mad man). It may not have high pressure to go above 9 pounds of boost, but up until that point it won't flood the carb with unnecessary fuel. The 4309 is only supposed to run 3-12#s of pressure anyway.
All that said I haven't run any test yet. I have No data. and I can't tell you whether its better or not.
As for keeping my eye on my wide band.... Don't gotta.
I went ***** to the wall; I got the LM-2. The real McCoy. I have the data logger to end all data loggers. I can monitor and record like 16 channels of info simultaneously with two O2 sensors. I've got the inductive clamp to log ignition, and I'm rigging up a TPS and a fuel pressure sensor.
2 years ago when I initiated this project a buddy of mine (a professional mechanic of 15 years and he has boosting experience) told me I needed a high flow low pressure pump. At the time I didn't fully understand what he meant, but now I think I get it. This Mallory is made for boosting on carbs (I think its also made for a GIANT V8 that guzzles fuel like a mad man). It may not have high pressure to go above 9 pounds of boost, but up until that point it won't flood the carb with unnecessary fuel. The 4309 is only supposed to run 3-12#s of pressure anyway.
All that said I haven't run any test yet. I have No data. and I can't tell you whether its better or not.
As for keeping my eye on my wide band.... Don't gotta.
I went ***** to the wall; I got the LM-2. The real McCoy. I have the data logger to end all data loggers. I can monitor and record like 16 channels of info simultaneously with two O2 sensors. I've got the inductive clamp to log ignition, and I'm rigging up a TPS and a fuel pressure sensor.
02-21-15, 11:16 PM
#79
There is some confusion. S5 wastegate spring pressure is 5.5psi, same as S4. The stock S5 ECU has a boost control solenoid to get it higher than 5.5psi. The only reason I was getting around 7psi was due to boost creep because the wastegate is stock on a full 3" exhaust.
I'm going to use a manual boost controller to jack it up to 10psi once I get an intercooler. I might have the wastegate ported. I'd have done it myself but the S5 has an iron casting in the way. I think I'd rather have BNR do it.
So far no intercooler at 7psi has been fine.
Wow, sounds like you have a complete wideband package.
I'm going to use a manual boost controller to jack it up to 10psi once I get an intercooler. I might have the wastegate ported. I'd have done it myself but the S5 has an iron casting in the way. I think I'd rather have BNR do it.
So far no intercooler at 7psi has been fine.
Wow, sounds like you have a complete wideband package.
02-21-15, 11:35 PM
#80
LM-2 Wideband O2 Digital Air/fuel Ratio Meter
The LM1 is fine, but I use the OBD II at work so I figured I'll pay the extra couple of bucks for the LM2.
Thinking about it I should put a MAP sensor on my LM2 as well. Then I can correlate boost with fuel ratios at different throttle positions.
5.5~7 I'm not picky. Just want to be able to say "I did that"
I'll be running a 2.5" exhaust.. glass pack and a muffler nothing special. Dunno where that will put me on the boost scale, but I suppose Ill find out.
EDIT: ooooooh I'll just get this....
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=1
and this...
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=265&page=1
The LM1 is fine, but I use the OBD II at work so I figured I'll pay the extra couple of bucks for the LM2.
Thinking about it I should put a MAP sensor on my LM2 as well. Then I can correlate boost with fuel ratios at different throttle positions.
5.5~7 I'm not picky. Just want to be able to say "I did that"
I'll be running a 2.5" exhaust.. glass pack and a muffler nothing special. Dunno where that will put me on the boost scale, but I suppose Ill find out.
EDIT: ooooooh I'll just get this....
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=250&page=1
and this...
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/x...cat=265&page=1
02-22-15, 12:11 AM
#81
2.5" exhaust should put you right at 5.5psi. That's what I'm hoping my baja does. I installed a 2.5" thickwall u-bend from Racing beat as a downpipe into a single Magnaflow (only room for one muffler back there). The u-bend's ID is only 2.25" so it probably will never creep. Probably won't spool all that quick either, but I don't need a lot of power in the baja. Just low end torque and somewhat quiet. Turbos make great mufflers!
I thought about the Innovate widebands, but went with an AEM because it was all inside the gauge. I didn't need anything overly complicated or fancy.
I thought about the Innovate widebands, but went with an AEM because it was all inside the gauge. I didn't need anything overly complicated or fancy.
02-22-15, 12:37 AM
#82
That's the beauty of it. Once I'm done with all the over the top calculations; I'm just gonna put a cheap narrow band o2 in there so I can keep an eye on the fuel ratios and remove the computers.
I have MANY uses for this kick butt diag tool. Up until now I've always pulled plug chops, color tunes, and exhaust sniffers BUT NOW I can cut that time in half. and I might get a more precise measurement.
I really want to plug this thing into my other tunes I've done before using those "archaic methods" and see how good I really was. Betcha my CB pulls straight 13.5s all day long. *
* In Charleston during the summer on dry days. lol
I have MANY uses for this kick butt diag tool. Up until now I've always pulled plug chops, color tunes, and exhaust sniffers BUT NOW I can cut that time in half. and I might get a more precise measurement.
I really want to plug this thing into my other tunes I've done before using those "archaic methods" and see how good I really was. Betcha my CB pulls straight 13.5s all day long. *
* In Charleston during the summer on dry days. lol
02-22-15, 04:13 PM
#83
carb whisperer
Yeah, I only plan on running the stock S5 boost (7#s?). So 9.5#s is fine for me.
2 years ago when I initiated this project a buddy of mine (a professional mechanic of 15 years and he has boosting experience) told me I needed a high flow low pressure pump. At the time I didn't fully understand what he meant, but now I think I get it. This Mallory is made for boosting on carbs (I think its also made for a GIANT V8 that guzzles fuel like a mad man). It may not have high pressure to go above 9 pounds of boost, but up until that point it won't flood the carb with unnecessary fuel. The 4309 is only supposed to run 3-12#s of pressure anyway.
All that said I haven't run any test yet. I have No data. and I can't tell you whether its better or not.
As for keeping my eye on my wide band.... Don't gotta.
I went ***** to the wall; I got the LM-2. The real McCoy. I have the data logger to end all data loggers. I can monitor and record like 16 channels of info simultaneously with two O2 sensors. I've got the inductive clamp to log ignition, and I'm rigging up a TPS and a fuel pressure sensor.
2 years ago when I initiated this project a buddy of mine (a professional mechanic of 15 years and he has boosting experience) told me I needed a high flow low pressure pump. At the time I didn't fully understand what he meant, but now I think I get it. This Mallory is made for boosting on carbs (I think its also made for a GIANT V8 that guzzles fuel like a mad man). It may not have high pressure to go above 9 pounds of boost, but up until that point it won't flood the carb with unnecessary fuel. The 4309 is only supposed to run 3-12#s of pressure anyway.
All that said I haven't run any test yet. I have No data. and I can't tell you whether its better or not.
As for keeping my eye on my wide band.... Don't gotta.
I went ***** to the wall; I got the LM-2. The real McCoy. I have the data logger to end all data loggers. I can monitor and record like 16 channels of info simultaneously with two O2 sensors. I've got the inductive clamp to log ignition, and I'm rigging up a TPS and a fuel pressure sensor.
02-22-15, 09:24 PM
#84
BAD NEWS!
My down pipe is 2" or 2.25". I think its factory stock at least that's what I was told.
I'm gonna run with it for now. I'll get around to making a real 2.5" down pipe.
AGGH this is gonna bug the crap out of me till I make a 2.5" one.
03-11-15, 06:22 PM
#86
Well, I fixed the turbo I got for cheap. I figured out why it was so cheap; one of the studs was threaded down to a nub. When I went to back it out it snapped inside the housing. No bother I just welded another stud into the turbo. Making this turbo not serviceable anymore, but functional for the moment.
As for the car itself, rebuild time. I've come to the decision that I personally cannot reuse apex seals. I don't know enough to determine whether or not they are in good shape. I'm also not gonna mess around and the irons are getting lathed down. I did a hasty build cause I needed a car ASAP and now I'm paying for it.
So the big question is do I rebuild and keep using the edelbrock or do I rebuild and drop the question mark Nikki in there? I know the edelbrock works great, but I got this car almost 3 years ago with the intention of turbocharging. I don't want to wait much longer. ^^^^ I guess I answered my own question. Edelbrock break it in and TAKE MY TIME, no more haste.
As for the car itself, rebuild time. I've come to the decision that I personally cannot reuse apex seals. I don't know enough to determine whether or not they are in good shape. I'm also not gonna mess around and the irons are getting lathed down. I did a hasty build cause I needed a car ASAP and now I'm paying for it.
So the big question is do I rebuild and keep using the edelbrock or do I rebuild and drop the question mark Nikki in there? I know the edelbrock works great, but I got this car almost 3 years ago with the intention of turbocharging. I don't want to wait much longer. ^^^^ I guess I answered my own question. Edelbrock break it in and TAKE MY TIME, no more haste.
03-11-15, 08:24 PM
#87
Lathed down irons? You're joking, right? If anything, leave the nitrided surface alone. You're just doing more damage if you lap/resurface/grind or even block sand. It's not a piston engine that needs honed cylinders. Side seals don't break-in the same way as piston compression rings. Thus a similar surface prep to bed-in seals is not required on a rotary and actually does damage. This isn't the year 1978.
I explained all this to tallbozo and how I prep irons for a rebuild which works great every time. Simple razor blade from a box cutter.
Glad to see some progress is being made.
Hey, I installed an Edelbrock in the GLC yesterday. It has a rotary. They do work, but tend to have glitches when you slow down and turn left. That's why I test fitted a Nikki. Turns out it would take way more time and effort to get the Nikki to work at this time than to throw the Edelbrock back in. But the Nikki will go in at some point once I get tired of the Edelbrock. It just requires a total redo of the fuel system (like I did on the brown car recently), a redo of the throttle cable, and some kind of custom air filter, or better yet, a carb hat! But I'm not there yet. I think I'd rather do a turbo in the REPU first as it will need as much work, except the throttle cable works with the Nikki and 1/3 of the fuel system is already done (Mallory already installed and tested, yeah boy!). Oh and an RB spun aluminum air filter actually fits under the hood. So I'm using a Nikki to break in the engine.
I explained all this to tallbozo and how I prep irons for a rebuild which works great every time. Simple razor blade from a box cutter.
Glad to see some progress is being made.
Hey, I installed an Edelbrock in the GLC yesterday. It has a rotary. They do work, but tend to have glitches when you slow down and turn left. That's why I test fitted a Nikki. Turns out it would take way more time and effort to get the Nikki to work at this time than to throw the Edelbrock back in. But the Nikki will go in at some point once I get tired of the Edelbrock. It just requires a total redo of the fuel system (like I did on the brown car recently), a redo of the throttle cable, and some kind of custom air filter, or better yet, a carb hat! But I'm not there yet. I think I'd rather do a turbo in the REPU first as it will need as much work, except the throttle cable works with the Nikki and 1/3 of the fuel system is already done (Mallory already installed and tested, yeah boy!). Oh and an RB spun aluminum air filter actually fits under the hood. So I'm using a Nikki to break in the engine.
03-11-15, 10:32 PM
#88
Yeah, but don't the irons need to be completely flat? I've heard of oil seeping by the control rings, but I'm fine with a little smoke* if it means a good running engine.
I'm gonna break it in at LEAST 100-500 miles with the edelbrock, cause I know the carb works well. If nothing else works I know that the carb/fuel pump is definitely not the problem.
That was the issue with me putting this car on the road last year. I bought the car with no engine and I didn't even have a distributer. So on first fire up I didn't know if the distributer was bad or something else was going wrong. I thought maybe the starter was weak. I also found out the tank had MANY rust holes in it.
Anyway, I don't want to repeat that fiasco. I just want to be able to scientifically approach the issue of low compression... deal with that then move on to other unknowns. The Nikki just throws up red flags of warning. Ideally I'd like to get the car running on boost with the Nikki THEN do a rebuild, but its getting more and more annoying to start (maybe its just the cold).
*I like smoke.
I'm gonna break it in at LEAST 100-500 miles with the edelbrock, cause I know the carb works well. If nothing else works I know that the carb/fuel pump is definitely not the problem.
That was the issue with me putting this car on the road last year. I bought the car with no engine and I didn't even have a distributer. So on first fire up I didn't know if the distributer was bad or something else was going wrong. I thought maybe the starter was weak. I also found out the tank had MANY rust holes in it.
Anyway, I don't want to repeat that fiasco. I just want to be able to scientifically approach the issue of low compression... deal with that then move on to other unknowns. The Nikki just throws up red flags of warning. Ideally I'd like to get the car running on boost with the Nikki THEN do a rebuild, but its getting more and more annoying to start (maybe its just the cold).
*I like smoke.
03-11-15, 11:04 PM
#89
The rumors of the irons having to be flat are spread by crooked shops who make money by lapping your irons, and thus ruining them. I have yet to see an actual warped iron in real life. Now, I've seen overheated irons and these, whether warped or not, are not useable so there is no need to check them with a flat bar for flatness anyway.
Well as for your other problems, I can't really diagnose them over the internet, but I hate to say you're on your own too. I know what a slow starter sounds like. I just installed the motor from an FD onto the nose from an FC and it works beautifully well. It cranks quicker and the engine started in one second of cranking after having sat since right after Christmas. And the funniest part is I used old housings with missing chrome across the top that very few others would have used, but it starts up quick and makes the most power of any rotary engine I've ever driven. Not sure if that's saying much, but it can break them lose in gear on dry road so that's plenty enough for me. It's all I ever wanted, really.
Anyway it sounds like you've got some things to figure out over there. Maybe post a video of the cranking speed too. Maybe upgrade some battery cables and look for an even better starter option than what I did: get a later RX-8 starter (the 2KW one) and an S4 NA starter and swap the RX-8 motor into the FC nose. That, and some new thick battery cables, will crank at like 300rpm. That's fast for a starter!
Well as for your other problems, I can't really diagnose them over the internet, but I hate to say you're on your own too. I know what a slow starter sounds like. I just installed the motor from an FD onto the nose from an FC and it works beautifully well. It cranks quicker and the engine started in one second of cranking after having sat since right after Christmas. And the funniest part is I used old housings with missing chrome across the top that very few others would have used, but it starts up quick and makes the most power of any rotary engine I've ever driven. Not sure if that's saying much, but it can break them lose in gear on dry road so that's plenty enough for me. It's all I ever wanted, really.
Anyway it sounds like you've got some things to figure out over there. Maybe post a video of the cranking speed too. Maybe upgrade some battery cables and look for an even better starter option than what I did: get a later RX-8 starter (the 2KW one) and an S4 NA starter and swap the RX-8 motor into the FC nose. That, and some new thick battery cables, will crank at like 300rpm. That's fast for a starter!
03-12-15, 10:13 PM
#90
Well, with my last engine I didn't lap ****. I just used nice housings, nice rotors, and NEW atkins 2 piece seals. I'm not a fan of 3 piece seals. I guess I will just use my current irons.
As for diaging the car. Pretty sure compression is the issue. <80#s average on all faces. I thought it was a weak starter, but I swapped it with a known good one a few weeks ago. No Bueno. So a rebuild is eminent.
I need to figure out this distributer. When I time it at TDC the engine won't run worth a crap. 20 degrees off, and it runs like a champ. Maybe its a trailing thing?
As for diaging the car. Pretty sure compression is the issue. <80#s average on all faces. I thought it was a weak starter, but I swapped it with a known good one a few weeks ago. No Bueno. So a rebuild is eminent.
I need to figure out this distributer. When I time it at TDC the engine won't run worth a crap. 20 degrees off, and it runs like a champ. Maybe its a trailing thing?
03-12-15, 11:30 PM
#91
Glad you didn't lap. Lapping doesn't increase compression. It can reduce it over time, and cause excessive oil consumption too. Properly clearanced side seals and new rotor housings give best compression.
20 degrees off sounds like the pickup wires are hooked up backwards to the ignitor.
Do you know which direction the dizzy drive gear went on the shaft when you built the engine? Installing it backwards can screw with your mind when you stab the dizzy.
20 degrees off sounds like the pickup wires are hooked up backwards to the ignitor.
Do you know which direction the dizzy drive gear went on the shaft when you built the engine? Installing it backwards can screw with your mind when you stab the dizzy.
03-17-15, 08:40 PM
#92
Glad you didn't lap. Lapping doesn't increase compression. It can reduce it over time, and cause excessive oil consumption too. Properly clearanced side seals and new rotor housings give best compression.
20 degrees off sounds like the pickup wires are hooked up backwards to the ignitor.
Do you know which direction the dizzy drive gear went on the shaft when you built the engine? Installing it backwards can screw with your mind when you stab the dizzy.
20 degrees off sounds like the pickup wires are hooked up backwards to the ignitor.
Do you know which direction the dizzy drive gear went on the shaft when you built the engine? Installing it backwards can screw with your mind when you stab the dizzy.
I'm always paranoid about that when I put the front cover on. Its maddening for me. Yeah, its camfer towards the rotors.
As for getting compression; I got an EXPENSIVE gift today from myself.
And I made some gaskets.
03-20-15, 06:42 PM
#94
I am as good as I thought I was.
I practiced with my new wide band on my new CB exhaust. Same kerker pipes just minus the rust I acquired over the years. With minor changes in elevation.
As for the RX7. I mock mounted my Mallory regulator and AN lines. Two headed to the carb from the regulator. One from the source. And one returing to the tank. The last Mallory hole will be filled with a fuel pressure gauge.
As a side note AN lines are pretty slick little gismos. They look sharp and are pretty easy to work with. Just slip the compression fitting on there and done.
03-31-15, 06:42 PM
#95
Oh THANK THE MAKER!!! or rotary gods I don't know which.
Its off!!!
I think some of my red Loctite got down from the threads on the flywheel nut and got on the area where the E-shaft mates to the flywheel. But an hour with the slide hammer, heat and finally a BFH and the thing came off.
And yeah yeah yeah, I know "shoulda used a brass hammer".
Its off!!!
I think some of my red Loctite got down from the threads on the flywheel nut and got on the area where the E-shaft mates to the flywheel. But an hour with the slide hammer, heat and finally a BFH and the thing came off.
And yeah yeah yeah, I know "shoulda used a brass hammer".
04-05-15, 09:39 PM
#98
Can I reuse the rotor that spun its bearing?
Well I guess the rotor didn't decide to spin the bearing my right foot made it do that.
Cause other than the bearings and the OBIOUSLY warped apex seals the rotors are top notch. Yeah, after disassembly I put a strait edge up to the apex seals.... I don't know what I was thinking, or if I was thinking at all.
Well I guess the rotor didn't decide to spin the bearing my right foot made it do that.
Cause other than the bearings and the OBIOUSLY warped apex seals the rotors are top notch. Yeah, after disassembly I put a strait edge up to the apex seals.... I don't know what I was thinking, or if I was thinking at all.