Banzai

iTrader: (13)

Did you disassemble the differential before submerging it? If not, you may want to open it up clean it out and re fill it with fresh gear lube. Media blasting works well to remove crud and rust too.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

WOW, that's an awesome thing to say Rick, thanks! I'm glad I could inspire you! There's lots of people on this forum that are way more knowledgeable and experienced than me and everyone is willing to lend advice and that's one of the things that makes this forum great.

I've taken a ton of pictures of this project and only uploaded the best of the most relevant shots, so if there's ever a time you're looking for a better or different shot of something just PM me and I'll send you what I have - maybe it'll help.

Hi Banzai! No, I did not disassemble it prior to soaking it. It wasn't leaking fluids so I thought that if I could get it all soaked I wouldn't have to disassemble anything. Made sense to me, but you're all gonna laugh at this story:

I had planned to build the box and line it with plastic and soak the entire assembly intact up to the driveshaft flange on the differential, since the entire thing was a rusty hulk. So I carefully measured everything out and built the box. Went to the store and bought some 4 mil plastic thinking anything less would be too thin and would easily tear if this assembly, which probably weighs a good 50 lbs., rested on it directly. To further decrease my chances of poking a hole in the plastic, I placed rags on the bottom of the box, and then set two pieces of scrap particle board on them so I had a cushion to place the rear end on and not tear up the plastic. So far so good.

The store only had plastic that was three feed wide. The engineer in me said "that ain't near wide enough to line this box in one piece", but the impatient amateur mechanic in me said "I'll make it work", and so I bought - you guessed it - duct tape. It fixes EVERYthing, right?

Well, I carefully lay out a section of plastic, fold it neatly into the box, and then another, and carefully tape the bejeezus out of it and then I do the short ends, carefully tucking, folding, and taping everything into place. The engineer in me says "duct tape ain't waterproof", but the other guy says "never doubt the power of duct tape in large quantities". Yeah, I hear voices inside my head....

Anyway, I carefully set the assembly in there and begin to fill it from a hose, being careful not to spray the plastic directly with a powerful stream and loosen any duct tape. Again, so far so good. I got about 3 inches of water in that bad boy when I look around the side of the box and I see a puddle of water growing at a rate that is much larger than anything that could even remotely be considered "manageable" and my garage was filling up. The engineer in me said "see, toldjya so", and the other guy said "I can fix it".

So I bailed out the water, and tore it all out. I knew I wasn't going back to the store for more plastic because all they had was 3 foot wide 4 mil plastic, and I wasn't about to drive around and search for wider stuff. I had to make hay. So, instead of laying it out across the short side of the box in two 3 foot sections, I laid it out along the long side of the box in one continuous piece. The downside to that was that with the box being 12 inches wide, I could only run the plastic up the sides 12 inches which brought the water level up to the level where the differential seats into the rear end housing.

It meant that I'd have to remove the differential to soak it (which it's doing now), and I would have to remove the axles, which I did. It's really the RIGHT way to do this, and I should have done it first. But no harm no foul. As it turns out, when I drained the axle, the oil (which I'd changed out a year ago before I started this whole thing) was milky looking - like oil does in a boinger with a bad head gasket. So water got in there somehow and it's a good thing I took it all apart.

I would have media blasted a lot of this stuff if I could, but my little 5 gallon compressor doesn't even come close to supplying enough pressure to accomplish that, and I don't have a box to media blast in even if I did have the right compressor. I learned that while sandblasting the front of the car. Plus, my garage isn't really wired to handle that load anyway. I kept tripping the breaker while I was sandblasting. It was a pain. in. the. ***... Doing it all this way, while not as quick as media blasting, achieves similar results and allows me to do other things on the car while it's working.

Yolo7

Wow looks great!

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

Na, nobody's laughing at the most determined SOB on this forum.


But the vent holes in the rear end would have filled with water and the seals would be worn down if you had gone ahead.

Now that you have it all apart are you gonna hunt down a small axle LSD? or keep it stock?

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

I'm not sure what diff I actually have to be honest. But if a LSD fell into my lap I'd prolly install it... I did get it all cleaned up and ready for paint and reinstall into the housing. Prolly paint it tomorrow.

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

If you see the two axles side by side its obvious. I've got both sizes sitting in a shed somewhere coated in grease.

There is nothing wrong with going big axle. The tinny ones are harder to come by.

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

just kidding, you have just made to bar rather high for your updates. If I had at least half of your patience, I would have finished my car and maybe be driving it.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

So I gather that the LSD has larger axles? These are pretty small so I think I have a stock GS non-LSD. Other than size of the axles, if I happen across a junkyard car again, how can I tell if a car has LSD? Is there a difference in the exterior of the housings?

I'll put some pics up when I get it painted. I'm gonna have to replace the front seal. There was some water that got into it when I had it in the bucket, and I'm not exactly sure if it leaked into it or dripped into it, but better safe than sorry and as long as I've gotten this far I might as well.

I've kinda been treating this thread as a method to document my work since I haven't been keeping a log otherwise, and it's a convenient way to do so, and it gives my parents (who love this car) the ability to check in on the progress. Would love to get it complete and drive it back home and take them for a spin, although they may want it back!

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Happy Veterans Day to all of our Veterans out there - THANK YOU for your service!!

I finished up prepping the rear end, the watts link pieces, the front and rear swaybars, and some other bits today. I painted the rear end, torsion bars, and watts link sections with NAPA Chassis Black #7243, but honestly it looks like regular semigloss to me. That should be it for the warm weather and I got everything painted up that I need to for now, including the two sections that the radiator bolts on to.

Here's the rear differential after a wire wheel, after treatment with metal ready, and wet with POR-15 gloss black. I'll hit it with the chassis black when it's dry.










Here's the other pieces that I finished:


And the swaybars cleaned up:




Well, that's it for now. It's gonna get cold here in the next few days so I think I've gotten all the parts restoration and painting done that I'm gonna get done for a long while. Time to get busy on the sanding and prep for paint, which I hope I can get done this spring. Not sure what it'll cost, but I know it's more than I have right now (and for the foreseeable future). My wife wants the house painted, and I'm running out of excuses...

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

double post - sorry!

Yolo7

Be careful with the front seal. If your referring to the pinion seal mark the nut and housing with match marks before taking off. If you over tighten the nut on installation you will change the pinion bearing pre load and cause bearing failure. Then you will be hunting down a new diff. Go just tighter than your marks. Not by a torque wrench.

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

First gens had two axle sizes, big and little. I don't know the actual measurements. The earlier 7s had little ones the latter had bigger ones. LSD or open they made both in both sizes. The bigger axle design is more prevalent because Kia used the 3rd member in its cars along with other Mazda creations. The small axle is (I believe don't know for sure) only used in the first gens.

If you spin the wheels on an LSD car both rear wheels will spin the same. On an open diff car the opposite wheel will turn backwards.



On the differential note I have recently decided what I plan to do with my gold '79. I'm gonna get a 3rd member from a Kia, the open but ridiculously close geared one. and weld the spider gears. Just to make a BURNOUT machine. I'm also gonna cut the top off and make it a permanent convertible. With a true duel exhaust. \m/

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

from what i've read, the 84-85 has the large spindles and axles. all others small.

WJM ROTARIES

Yes only the series 3 has the larger axels 26 splines and 24 splines for all others

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Thanks fellas! I appreciate all the help! I'll keep what I have and upgrade later if I get the chance.

Cheers

FCinWV

iTrader: (8)

I here ya dude. I live in WV. Terrible. My gas tank looks like it should be strapped to the back of a post apocalyptic go cart in Thunderdome.

FCinWV

iTrader: (8)

Man I bought a blast box from harbor freight for all my smaller parts suck as the rad brackets and virtually all the bolts i re used. Greatest investment ever for my build.

Outstanding work by the way. I have never tried electrolysis but I have a gsl rear that looks identical to how yours did. I am sold.

ATC529R

nice work by the way. I'll have to go through this whole thread tonight. A couples questions.

what type of welder? flux core? any major issues welding body panels or advise?

also see that rear seam on the back end. It's right above the support going across the back-the one with holes in it. The are just above it where factory seam sealed the metal is rusting like crazy on mine. it's just a bad design. I am contemplating grinding it down and just welding the seam, but concerned it would cause more rust in the future. there is also a lot of rust on mine where the spare tire support meets the rear section....the support with the holes in it.

any advise on your plans for that rear section would be appreciated.

ATC529R

do you have any rust inside your frame rails? mine has some on the fron and rear drivers side.

honestly I am not sure if I should weld supports as I have hear the heat would only make it rust more. or b to leave it and oil inside the frame rails like once a year or c. get a coating, which I think might be even more trouble if it trapped moisture. mine is a FL car.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Thanks FCinWV! If I stay in this house permanently, I think I'll invest in an upgrade of my garage wiring so I can run a 240V 60 or 80 gallon compressor and get a small blast box. It would SO be worth it I think.

Yeah, I feel your pain with the rust. I did a writeup in this thread somewhere about how to do the electrolysis and it really is plug and play. Easier than anything I've tried so far to remove rust, and it works great.

Thanks ATC529R! I bought a cheapo HF 90 amp flux core welder, with a coupon and on sale, for $90. It won't build any bridges, but it got the job done on this project. I did have some issues welding the sheet metal on this car, mainly because it's so thin. I would have blow-throughs and make a small seam a large hole that had to be filled in. The more I welded tho the better I got. Someone on this forum once said that a bad mechanic blames his tools, and I'm not blaming my tools, and I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a proficient welder, but I do think that if I could get my hands on a decent Miller or Lincoln welder I could do a better job. With experience I could do better, and a good welder would also help.

Advice? I'd go with a decent welder like I just mentioned. And if you've never welded before, practice, practice, practice. In my case, none of the welding I did will be easily visible, unless you crawl under the car, so I didn't really have a lot on the line. If you want to see some good welding on a rusty project, look at 82Transam's thread. He's done some amazingly good work on quarter panels. He gave me some great advice about overlapping panels to make a good seam. Look on or around page #13 of this thread and you'll see some stuff on welding advice and a couple good links for more information.

I think the lower valence on the rear of my car was replaced when the rear passenger quarter panel was replaced. All I did in the areas in the pictures you quoted was clean up the rust with a wire wheel, treat it wth the POR-15 metal ready and painted it. I did that on the inside (underside of the car) and outside.

Yes, I had some rust on the inside of the frame rails that I exposed when I took the floor sections out. You can see in some of the pictures early on in this thread where I started on the floor pans. I'm certain that the inside of the frame rails all along this car have some surface rust. Where I exposed it I took a wire wheel to it and cleaned it up as much as I could, then treated with POR-15 metal ready, and painted it. It's not a permanent solution, but should last a good long while especially since I won't drive this in the winter on salty roads.

There was only one section of the frame that had a rusty hole in it that concerned me. It was the section of frame under the passenger floor and I took a section of frame from my donor car and welded it over top of that section, adding about 12 to 14 inches of frame rail over that section so it should be secure. The other sections were not as bad.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Been thinking on this and I think you mean the seam that goes across the back where the rear deck panel meets the structural channel that runs across the back, correct? The horizontal seam in this picture:?



This seam is where the rear deck panel (outside the car), the rear deck panel (inside the car, under the carpet), and the rear quarter panels all come together in a layer that is spot welded together. I didn't have a lot of rust in that area aside from surface rust, except on the passenger side and I opened that seam up to remove the long skinny section of interior deck panel that was rusted pretty bad.

You could easily (relatively easily I suppose) undo the spot welds in that area and cut out the rusty section that you mention and replace it with some sheet metal bent in a 90. As far as I know, so long as you prime the welds you shouldn't have any further rust issues. You can see on mine where the replacement inner quarter was (the red section) the welds weren't primed and they rusted over, but they were only covered with surface rust. Those rusty spot welds cleaned up pretty nicely with a wire brush so structurally they were ok. Just not what I wanted to leave in there.

Do you mean in the small section that runs from the rear side-to-side frame section forward towards the front of the car and meets the spare tire well? The short section in this pic:



Yes, that short section was about half gone. I hit it with a wire wheel and a rust tornado ensued. That piece is kinda like a 2 or 3 inch long box channel that connects the spare tire well to the rear frame support and the vertical sections had rusted out pretty badly. I cleaned it up as best I could and investigated to see if it was still intact enough to go with it. It was, so I went with it without adding any new metal. Again, this car will never see a salty road again so I don't anticipate any further serious rust issues.

ATC529R

thanks for the response. that section on mine is the worst part of the car. I jus can't decide. on one hand I could patch it up and por15 it up, but it's bad. the section between my spare tire and the support is gone.

I am REALLY considering cutting it out, and putting in a 2x3 from frame rail to frame rail. then fixing the sheet metal above it. I am just scared if i do not do this the rust will come back within a couple years easily. that and if i do everything else on the car, why 1/2 *** it on one part.

nice build, and thanks for the info.

craaaazzy

iTrader: (9)

wow, u've been doing all this with a HF flux welder? i'm even more impressed!

ACR_RX-7

iTrader: (1)

Boy I'll say! I used to work for an exhaust/muffler shop and the owner was cheap. And by cheap, I mean we only had service software (OnDemand) up to 2003....This was in 2007 when I worked there. Anyways, we had a HF MIG welder that I had to use on exhaust work and it was LOUSY. The big thing with any welder is the duty cycle, basically how long you can weld before the machine overheats and starts to weld like crap. After TONS of practice, we were able to make serviceable welds, but doing all that on your car with a flux wire?!

Like you said, a good person doesn't blame their tools, but it just makes it all the more impressive what you have accomplished. I envy your patience.

Andrew7dg

I just got done going through all the pages! Very impressive!

I was going to mention something about welding that is going to make your life easier (especially since you have more welding to do). Stop using the flux core! It is the wrong welder and wire for the job. You are doing so much work on this car and I am cringing every time you are welding with that welder and wire. Your welds don't look good because flux core of that type will never look that good. It will never weld pretty whatever you do and there is always a large amount of spatter if you haven't notice already. Plus your welds are "cold welds" and you might have flux inclusions which doesn't make for very strong welds. Christmas is coming up. Get yourself a mig 110 miller or holbart welder (they are pretty reasonable priced) with a GAS attachment option. Start using .23 small hard wire with a co2/arg mix (not straight o2 because that burns hotter and will melt through the metal) Get some scrap metal and practice a little to get the feel and then go back welding your car back together. You will be much happier that you changed over. The hardest part is controlling the heat input and warpage of the thin metal but you will get the hang of it. You have a lot of welding to do on the car for practice.
I am ranting because I am admiring the work you are doing. Please go the extra step. Plus you will like the fact you could fabricate anything for the car knowing how to weld.

If you have any questions about welding please feel free to ask me. I have had to weld on a whole roof on a rally car because of a roll over

I am restoring a 1955 Chevy truck and you made my day by showing the electrolysis rust removal trick!!! You just cut down on my work 80%