DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Hey guys, I'll just start off with a few pics and details of the cars: as I promised.













1984 Mazda RX-7 GS
1.1L 12a carburetor engine
Stock engine, trans, rear end
No ECU
Complete burgundy interior













1987 Mazda RX-7 Turbo II
1.3L 13b turbo engine
TII transmission
Stock ECU
Interior partly gutted but should be complete

Project description:
I plan on swapping the TII 13bt engine and TII trans out of the 87 into my 84, along with all of the wiring and necessary parts.

I will be posting up all of my links that have helped me in this post, then quoting a member's post that has proved to be extremely helpful in my considerations of what to do during this swap.

Links I found helpful are as follows:

Other Member's Build Threads
Chronicles of a TII Swap
Sean's TII 83 S
Matt’s T2 FB Build (pic heavy)
(TURBO) TII swap into GSL-SE
Matt's Original Swap
PeteyTurbo’s TII Swap

How to notch the 12a for a 13b install
How to Notch the 13b for install in a previously 12a car
How to Notch the 13b for install in a previously 12a car another way

FB FMIC?
FMIC Installation into FB

FC TII 5-lug conversion
Write up - FC subframe swap (how I did it)
Any one have 5 lug pictures of their First gen
BBS vert wheels on 1st gen with big brake kit
5 lug fc conversion on the rear of 1 gen

Difference between 13b and 13bt
13b NA and 13b Turbo engine differences

Downpipe
What did you use for a Downipe?(FC)

TII Swap Questions
TII swap couple questions

My favorite single post on the TII swap, from Directfreak, found here at (ENGINE) TII swap into GSL-SE page 4

START DIRECTFREAK QUOTE
================================================== ========
Sorry Guys, I decided to use this as my running parts list. I will add to it, change it, and so on as the project continues. It was originally a PM I sent to another member, and I posted it elsewhere (area 51). I figured it belongs here anyway.

Aftermarket ECU? Much fabrication?
Info? I got your stinkin’ Info right here!!.

First, let me tell you, a GSL-SE is the best model available to do a 13B Turbo transplant. It already has several things necessary to make the swap easier:That is just the GSL-SE stuff. For my particular swap, you will still need:SUSPENSIONGAUGES:
EVENTUALLY:As you can see,MY parts list is quite extensive. Luckily I am about 90% of the way there. I will be completing this list within the next 60 days, and then tearing into the car shortly thereafter. I anticipate finishing by the end of the summer if it all works out.

By the way, this does not include Labor, misc parts, time, time, and did I mention time?
Also TOOLS. Engine lifts, engine stands, Air compressors, parts washers, extra nuts, bolts, aluminum sheets for fabricating, etc. Labor is very expensive, as only a real quality rotary mechanic can do this, unless you know how to do it yourself.

I will be doing most of it myself, with the exception of the fuel system, Haltech installation, tuning, and Dyno testing. All of which is very expensive as well.

As you can see, it is not easy, quick, or cheap. It is quite an expensive toy that will NEVER be worth what you put into it. In other words, even if you do a real awesome job, that looks like factory OEM - you will never even get half of the money you invested into it if you try to resell it.

Why I am I doing this? Because I have always wanted a Turbo 1st Gen since my first RX-7 over 14 years ago. I plan to keep it as long as I can, and make well over 400 hp to the rear wheels. It will be my “fun” car. Not a daily driver by any means.

Before you consider this route let me recommend a few things.
1) Have another Car for daily use (pick-up truck recommended)
1) Don’t start until you have all the parts you need. (you will need more than you think)
2) Unless you want more than 250 hp (which is a shitload for a 1st Gen),
go another route.

ANOTHER ROUTE:

1) Take your (12A) engine, rebuild it, Streetport it, get some nice headers and a good carb (Weber/Dellorto) and you’ll be at about 200 hp for less than $1200
2) Same thing, with a 13B = 230 hp, about $1500

3) Turbocharge your 12A. – Get a Holly 550, a Rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator, an Intercooler, an old RX-7 Turbo with manifold (modified), a locked distributor, and you’ll be at 220 HP on a stock port 12A, 250 HP with a Street Port. – Less than 2K

4) Turbocharge a 13B. – Get a Holly 550, a Rising rate Fuel Pressure Regulator, an Intercooler, an old RX-7 Turbo with manifold, a locked distributor, and you’ll be at 240 HP on a stock port 12A, 280 HP with a Street Port. – Less than 2200

5) A Nitrous Oxide System. Good only on a Street or Bridge port, you must do this EXTREMELY Well, with plenty of safeguards to avoid blowing your engine. – Less than $500 for the kit, and Extra 50-75 HP over what you currently have.

I hope this has provided you with MORE THAN ENOUGH information concerning a swap like this. Go to the RX-7 Forum, the web and Read, Read, Read.

Check this particular thread for all the goodies:
TII Swap itno GSL-SE

Good Luck and keep us posted!
================================================== =======
END QUOTE

(I just didn't like the italicized way a regular quote is used so I wrote where his quote starts and stops)

Now, as anyone looking at this thread should know by now, I am a very open guy that likes to share info and things for others. I've provided my list of links so far to things that have helped me learn and move towards my goal.

I'll keep posting here with pics, videos, and ideas and I'd appreciate those of you that are considering the swap and those I've featured above could help me out as well.

Thanks,
Austin

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Here's a short video of a walk around of my TII car that I'll be using for the swap.


Not meaning to double post, it just came through right now.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Nice detailed post so far, much better job than I did with mine lol. Hopfully I can put together a better writeup when I get to the T2 swap in my GS in a few months...

Good luck with the swap, you're off to a good start.

highnitro12187

iTrader: (21)

looks like a good swap you got going on! glad to see another turbo fb guy starting up. welcome to the club!

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

In about 2 hours I'll have my turbo and exhaust manifold too.

But I've still gotta lot of time left on building my BP engine... And a Shiton more money needed.


I'm not gonna intercool. Just because I don't like all of the plumbing involved. It detracts from the beauty of the engine bay IMPO.



Spool up brother! \m/




.

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Thanks I'm looking forward to your help throughout the swap, I'll need it.

I can't wait to drive the thing! Just running the TII is fun enough, and I'm taking it out for a drive tomorrow.

Hope your turbo install goes well! I figure buying a running, driving car with good compression on the engine is more beneficial to me right now than tearing an engine down since I don't necessarily have the space, time, or tools to complete the engine build in a reasonable time.

Tonight I got in the Energy Suspension bushings for the rear control arms and the Watts linkage for the rear axle from UPS.


I'll be taking out the TII for a drive tomorrow just for the heck of it (if the roads are somewhat decent and I don't see any cops) and will tape it with the Gopro. I just want to make sure the engine warms up, idles decently, and the trans works well also.

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

Saweeet! Let the games begin. I'm really glad you went with the turbo swap. You're going to have a blast man!

Your car is CLEAN. First that's one of my top favorite colors on an FB, second that interior is mint. Don't get rid of it!

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

I'll be keeping the interior just as it is now - as much as people rip on the burgundy I do love it when it is in mint condition

Here are a few tidbits I bought with the car:
A Walbro 255lph fuel pump


A Turbonetics wastegate


An eBay shiny BOV


And here's all the paperwork that came with the car and I may be getting a title for it as well...maybe...



And I found all of this while going through the entire car with all the bins of parts and such that was included in the sale. Among other things was:
A complete A/C system for the S4 engine
Another S4 UIM and LIM
Complete rat's nest
Stock Turbo II TMIC
And some other odds and ends

So today I took the TII out for a spin and that thing RIPS!! Compared to my little, completely stock, worn out 12a the TII felt like a rocket! Unfortunately the plows haven't cleaned up the 3" or so of snow and sleet we got yesterday and into last night so I couldn't fully open her up. I took a video again of my drive and will post it as soon as it's on YouTube. Uploading 1080p 30fps video takes a very long time...

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Here's the driving video I took.

woodmv

iTrader: (8)

Nice! makes me wish I had mine running...

82transam

iTrader: (18)

It's amazing how fast a T2 engine feels compared to the 12a isn't it? Wait till you have it in the much lighter FB

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

Dang dood that looks chilly.

I will no longer complain about 38 degrees (F) and gravel all over the roads. You're driving down that road I'm like **** BRO SNOW WATCH OUT!

But when you're embedded in it like you are i suppose you totally get used to it. When I sand bag it and put winters on the rear I can drive teh FB no problem in snow. I prefer not to, and after my WRX wagon, AWD with 4x studs, its hard driving anything else in the snow.

I hope you have a good shop heater ;-)

captainbizzaro

Gotta love S4 Turbo motors, low compression ratio ahoy woopwoop.

MazdaMike02

iTrader: (4)

Looks like its getting underway. Hope it turns out well.

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

It's a blast, let me tell ya. As Sean has told me, the 200hp that makes the FC a fun car will make the FB a rocket and after driving it I cannot WAIT to swap!!

Oh it's ridiculous! And in the video I only took three pulls, and only one of them kind of counted and I am anxiously awaiting the day I get the engine in the FB and get it running

You had my fiance and I literally laughing out loud with that one! I have never typed lol but LOL,

Yeah, it just takes a few times in the ditch and you learn real quick how bad it can suck. I blew out a 4 speed automatic tranny on a 4x4 truck because I got stuck in the snow and had to rebuild it in my bedroom in 2 weeks. I learned real fast after that.

And there's a Subaru Legacy Outback AWD 5-speed Wagon under a lean-to connected to our shed right now waiting on an $800+ driveshaft since Subi made sure not to put replaceable u-joints in their cars so you had to buy the Subi shaft. Dumb. But that thing is a blast in the winter in an open lot

Well, I use a shed...what's a shop?? is that like a garage???

I have no protection for this car right now besides the exterior body panels covering the interior and the hood covering the motor. My FB is in my grandparent's one car garage and that's where I'll be doing the swap (even though it's an hour away from me) but I have to deal completely with the elements, and have had to since I was born. You get used to that too, and it'll make me appreciate the shop later in life.

Oh yeah, bunches of fun and a little safer than S5 with a higher compression ratio.

Thanks! I hope so too

tacoboy1503

iTrader: (1)

sweet !!! i just did mine this wkd and gotta redo the my intake gasket since i forgot to order mine,, i just made me own w/ cork and it didnt do the trick.. got vacuum leak so after i get that fix i think im set besides exhaust

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Yeah, I'll be ordering a few different gaskets from Atkins before the swap so I can take the external parts off of the engine to paint it before the install. If I would have stayed 12a I would have done the same thing this winter because I want a nice, clean, shiny engine bay instead of the dusty one I have now.

Exhaust... I got the stock downpipe with the purchase and will probably use it for a mock up for a while but I'm extremely undecided what I want to do. Probably 3" stainless with two Magnaflow mufflers, one acting as a presilencer and the other as a muffler at the end of the car. I just don't want to restrict it too much but I don't want it to be extremely loud either..

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

On my s4 turbo swap I had the RB 2.5" down pipe, single 2.5" presilencer, then 2.5" over axle into a 2.5" inlet (street port) RB powerpulse muffler.

Best soundin exhaust I've heard on any car ever.

However, a little birdy told me they can get a hold of super secret 3" RB powerpulse mufflers.

Honestly that may be the way to go - full 3"

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

I'm doing 2.5 all the way back.

$15.95 glasspak & whatever $15.95 muffler I can find.

$20 of steel piping....

$50 exhaust good to go!!

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

Be ready to do it over again. I had a similar setup, eBay special N1 style muff. That lasted a week. Couldn't bear to drive it

Qingdao

iTrader: (3)

Nope... There is a local parts dealer that has a rack. Good stuff sold cheaply, not cheap stuff.

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Well, I've researched it out and I don't think I can justify the cost to get full 3" stainless exhaust. I think I'll be doing the RB downpipe, because that seems to be a reoccurring theme in TII swaps - and why not use what works?? I'll try to get the 3" DP and go into a presilencer, to a Magnaflow muffler out the back. Would got from 3" to 2.5" but we will see.

Yeah, I'll probably go a bit more all out than that - but with how expensive this build is getting I may have to go with something along these lines. Hopefully not though, I'd like the system to last a few years until I can do a complete system that will support 500whp

Now, what I've done over the last few days:
I went on an hour and a half excursion to meet up with a local member (username TOFUDRIFTER) with my RX-7 buddy and found Mike to be an awesome guy who I look forward to hanging out with this summer. He has an 83 LE that he's stripping the interior out of and put up for sale. So I went out and picked up some parts from him and would like to come out and get anything else he doesn't use.







And here's a video of what I believe is the dreaded S4 ECU fuel cut. Take a view and let me know.


This has got me considering running the Rtek 1.7 or 1.8 to avoid this fuel cut and get better performance out of the almost stock ECU. We will see...

Here's another video of the loping idle issue I'm having and trying to figure out - any ideas??


Oh, and I tested the compression in both rotors yesterday - 110psi for 3 solid bumps on both rotors for the win!!!

ioTus

iTrader: (5)

NICE score on the interior parts - that carpet, seats, and panels look amazing!!!

Def go with the rTek. I'd get the top model -what is it 2.1 or something?

I'd say you're on the right track with the exhaust. Get the solid downpipe, and count on doing everything there-back over at least once

With two magnaflows, you should be alright, though it may be a bit loud. I think with 2 in there it shouldn't be tinny at all though, so you should be good to go there. The turbo quiets it down a bit, almost like 1/3 of a muffler, one magnaflow I dont think will be enough.

One thing to consider is that if you're using 3" on a stock-ish turbo, you may encounter boost creep after the wastegate is maxed out and the exhaust is still welcoming more flow. It will suck through the turbo, spooling it faster as the wastegate is now effectively "blocked" (still flowing but at max capacity).

82transam

iTrader: (18)

Yeah if you want to keep all the stock functionality but have the ability to tune it then go Rtek, i'm very happy with mine.

If you plan to go standalone in the future, a cheap way to get around the fuel cut is to just buy one of those fuel cut defenders that RB (and a slew of other places) sell for like $50.

I agree fully with ioTus, whatever you decide to do now on the car, whether it be the exhaust or the intake piping etc, expect to redo it at least once or twice. I've redone all of mine several times over lol It's just how it goes. Like I said in that one email, you're biggest concern at this point should be to get the engine in the car and running/driving without issues

DreamInRotary

iTrader: (49)

Oh yes they do! I'll be going back and getting some more parts from him if I take the time to go down again, maybe on a day off I'll go work on my car and get some parts from him at the same time.

I actually just found a deal for an RB DP and presilencer for a turbo application - praying that no one else steals it from me before my next pay check on the 27th....tempted to put money down on the setup to ensure I get it.

Ohhhhhhh boost creep! I actually just read on porting the stock wastegate on the S4 turbos since they are prone to have the issue of boost creep. Aaron Cake is becoming a rotary legend and I will be following his tutorial on his website for porting the stock wastegate. And I'll be doing the 2.5" method now, looked at prices and want to go with a worthwhile exhaust but one that I won't feel bad about replacing later.

Rtek it is! I'm just not sure which version to get:
1.5 too outdated
1.7 550cc primary injectors, 720cc secondaries minimum $150 new install
1.8 720cc primary and secondary injectors minimum $150 new install
2.1 Can be tuned, but looking at ~$500+, and for that price I could get a Haltech with a harness

I looked into them and I decided that for an extra hundred, why not just send my chip into the Rtek guys and have them address many common issues instead of just the fuel cut? I figure it would be a $100 well spent on a safety feature, performance is also a factor though as well. Trust me, the RB FCd is the first thing I looked at then I found the Rtek option.

Oh yeah, I plan on getting it running well then redoing it all - I'm a realist I plan on putting it all in, driving it until the engine goes or I have another car and the income to build it into the monster I believe it can be. Like upgraded turbo, exhaust, ECU, widebody, interior work, rims, tires, among many other things

I'm having a serious issue right now figuring out how to run the fuel system. I have that Walbro 255lph in line fuel pump that I could use, but finding a post or thread on how to do it safely is proving to be difficult.
Fuel Pump Research
Directfreak's Fuel System - nopistons
(INTAKE) EFI-prepping a 1st gen
Best upgraded fuel pump

Or I could do a FD pump for $55 but that's in-tank and I'd have to mod the fuel tank - which isn't out of my expertise, I'd just like not to.