94 white track/street build. Simple but effective
12-08-16, 08:29 PM
#76
feel free to post away Mike. I won't have many more updates for a while anyway so it's a good time to bench race. I have passed many a GT3 in the FD: 996, 997, 991 and have videos of it, but they're not the ones I'm benchmarking against! haha.
I know Fritz has a lot of time in both platforms which is helpful. My brother and I have switched cars before but not for extensive amounts of time. We have driven with/around each other on the track all the way back to when we were late teenagers on motorcycles so we're able to pit our cars against one another pretty often and consistently.
I know Fritz has a lot of time in both platforms which is helpful. My brother and I have switched cars before but not for extensive amounts of time. We have driven with/around each other on the track all the way back to when we were late teenagers on motorcycles so we're able to pit our cars against one another pretty often and consistently.
12-08-16, 09:03 PM
#77
I have not yet ran into a 996 or 997 GT3 on similar tires I cannot run with or pass with my FC. A guy in a 991 GT3 was faster, but he spun twice trying to stay ahead of me, and I was faster than his buddy in a v10 R8 on R888s. Another guy in a 991 GT3 I ran with and passed.
At track days I generally have the most fun running with the Porsche guys.
It is amazing what these RX7s can do when they are dialed in. Mine has been incredibly cheap to run and and maintain, but I have a V8 in the car...and I know it is not and FD but I am enjoying this thread.
At track days I generally have the most fun running with the Porsche guys.
It is amazing what these RX7s can do when they are dialed in. Mine has been incredibly cheap to run and and maintain, but I have a V8 in the car...and I know it is not and FD but I am enjoying this thread.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 12-08-16 at 09:12 PM.
12-09-16, 09:23 AM
#78
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I think the brotherly rivalry has pushed us both to be better throughout the years. Chris was always better on bikes, Traditionally I was better in cars but both were relative to seat time. I'd say in the past few years we've both ended up near the same level of development and while I still learn and plan out attempted learning every time I get in the car we're both to the point of no more large incremental gains to be found out there.
Having cars that have always been a good match for each other also helps. In current configurations they're real close to each other in lap time potential with a slight edge currently to the GT3. He could easily sway that the other direction with a little more power and aero. But that's kind of the beauty in how we both decided to build our cars. Full interior, mine still has A/C (
) and easily used on the street and driven to and from the track. I've been tracking cars for quite awhile and I only just bought a trailer 2 seasons ago to start traveling further for track days.
I think most GT3 owners who complain about running costs are the ones that are convinced they need to pay a race shop to maintain and support their car. I do all of my own work and the consumables cost between the two cars on a yearly basis is almost a wash. I haven't bought a new set of tires in years, my yearly tire budget the last 4-5 seasons has been $1200 or less running on used nitto's and more recently used slicks. My pads cost more up front but last 2x + as long as the pads on the FD. Mine gets almost twice the fuel mileage of his on the track. Our yearly running costs between the two cars are pretty darn equal.
Cost of entry is where the large gap is, which for outright performance is hard to justify. I've dreamed of a GT3 since the first day I saw one and it's a car that will be with me for a very long time.
I look forward to being on equal tires with Chris again this year...It's always better when you've got someone to chase and play with with the same speed as you to push driver and car development that much further.
Having cars that have always been a good match for each other also helps. In current configurations they're real close to each other in lap time potential with a slight edge currently to the GT3. He could easily sway that the other direction with a little more power and aero. But that's kind of the beauty in how we both decided to build our cars. Full interior, mine still has A/C (
) and easily used on the street and driven to and from the track. I've been tracking cars for quite awhile and I only just bought a trailer 2 seasons ago to start traveling further for track days.I think most GT3 owners who complain about running costs are the ones that are convinced they need to pay a race shop to maintain and support their car. I do all of my own work and the consumables cost between the two cars on a yearly basis is almost a wash. I haven't bought a new set of tires in years, my yearly tire budget the last 4-5 seasons has been $1200 or less running on used nitto's and more recently used slicks. My pads cost more up front but last 2x + as long as the pads on the FD. Mine gets almost twice the fuel mileage of his on the track. Our yearly running costs between the two cars are pretty darn equal.
Cost of entry is where the large gap is, which for outright performance is hard to justify. I've dreamed of a GT3 since the first day I saw one and it's a car that will be with me for a very long time.
I look forward to being on equal tires with Chris again this year...It's always better when you've got someone to chase and play with with the same speed as you to push driver and car development that much further.
12-09-16, 10:50 AM
#79
That said, it's not about "beating" the more powerful car, it's about improving your driving skills (after which the the more powerful car is toast
)
12-09-16, 01:07 PM
#81
I would go as far to say it's all about beating the more expensive car for less. If you look at how many manufacturers have used Porsche as the bar when developing their "track focused" competition. One just need look at development of the most recent M3 and GT350R. While always competing with those other GT car rivals like Audi and Merc in the BMW case and the Camaro in Fords case
I believe those manufacturers came right out and said they focused squarely on the 911 Carrera S as the Performance bar for lap times. While buyers of the 911 won't likely be in the market for a mustang; the buyers of the Mustangs will believe their money was well spent if they see the performance Per dollar.
Of course in 30 years the Porsche will sell for much more money than a 30yr old mustang.... but that's a different metric lol.
Like LOF said; Yes I think we are all very much enjoying this thread.
Nothing against the GT3 but it's a Mazda RX7 forum so it will have to be the Darth Vader in this scenario.
I believe those manufacturers came right out and said they focused squarely on the 911 Carrera S as the Performance bar for lap times. While buyers of the 911 won't likely be in the market for a mustang; the buyers of the Mustangs will believe their money was well spent if they see the performance Per dollar.
Of course in 30 years the Porsche will sell for much more money than a 30yr old mustang.... but that's a different metric lol.
Like LOF said; Yes I think we are all very much enjoying this thread.
Nothing against the GT3 but it's a Mazda RX7 forum so it will have to be the Darth Vader in this scenario.
12-09-16, 03:12 PM
#82
LOL @ the GT3 being Vader, but I like it. Like was stated in our current configurations our cars are really close performance-wise so that makes it fun. There's a reason the Porsche values are up on the GT car and that's because they do everything well. I attent mostly PCA events so I guess I see the virtues of their cars often.
If I can continue to get the FD better with track reliability then I will be able to confidently go to further events like VIR, Road Atlanta, Etc and not be worried about breaking and losing time. That's a big goal for me.
If I can continue to get the FD better with track reliability then I will be able to confidently go to further events like VIR, Road Atlanta, Etc and not be worried about breaking and losing time. That's a big goal for me.
12-10-16, 08:20 AM
#83
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I could write on book on the GT3 vs FD subject.
For reliability it's GT3 hands down. I've had 4 different GT3s on track and never opened the bonnet on one of them. With my FD I rarely go 1 session without having to fix, change something LOL
Speed it's not even close in a single turbo FD. I don't consider a twin turbo FD a true/fully prepped track FD LOL. The FD will stomp (350 to 375 rwhp) a 6 GT3 and barely beat a 997.2 (I'm going to look at 997.2 GT3 today so may gather some more data in the 2017 track year ). It's all about power and weight. The GT3 can squeeze in big tires but so can the FD. The FD must have 275 or more tire to even begin to compete with GT3s or corvettes etc.....
Sure I've passed pretty much every car in the world but all that matters is your lap time vs the lap time of a well driven car not the sunday driver variety. A well driven viper or vette and it's game over for the FD or the GT3 LOL.
A twin turbo FD doesn't stand a chance against a well driven GT3 because even if comes out of the gate strong it will heat up and start loosing power after 2 or 3 laps. Key component is WELL driven.
Here's a Video from June 2015 (second time I was in this car) in the 6 GT3. Slicks are old with lots of heat cycles (at least 20/tires very closet to cording/not indicators left) and the GT3 runs a 2.05 near the end of the session and I never let the tires cool. New slicks and that's a 2.02 car no problem (probably faster in colder weather).
OK so now compare my FD running a 2.02 in 90 degree heat while on c51s and not true racing slicks. Put the FD on slicks when it's 60 degrees out in Oct and it's jugging a 2 minute flat lap which would be close to impossible for the 6 GT3
PS a 2.04 lap at either watkins or VIR is an extremely ambitious goal for a TT FD but from what I can tell if anyone can it's smokey the talon 2.04 is just another day at the track for the 6 GT3 and it will do it for 15 laps 
For reliability it's GT3 hands down. I've had 4 different GT3s on track and never opened the bonnet on one of them. With my FD I rarely go 1 session without having to fix, change something LOL
Speed it's not even close in a single turbo FD. I don't consider a twin turbo FD a true/fully prepped track FD LOL. The FD will stomp (350 to 375 rwhp) a 6 GT3 and barely beat a 997.2 (I'm going to look at 997.2 GT3 today so may gather some more data in the 2017 track year ). It's all about power and weight. The GT3 can squeeze in big tires but so can the FD. The FD must have 275 or more tire to even begin to compete with GT3s or corvettes etc.....
Sure I've passed pretty much every car in the world but all that matters is your lap time vs the lap time of a well driven car not the sunday driver variety. A well driven viper or vette and it's game over for the FD or the GT3 LOL.
A twin turbo FD doesn't stand a chance against a well driven GT3 because even if comes out of the gate strong it will heat up and start loosing power after 2 or 3 laps. Key component is WELL driven.
Here's a Video from June 2015 (second time I was in this car) in the 6 GT3. Slicks are old with lots of heat cycles (at least 20/tires very closet to cording/not indicators left) and the GT3 runs a 2.05 near the end of the session and I never let the tires cool. New slicks and that's a 2.02 car no problem (probably faster in colder weather).
OK so now compare my FD running a 2.02 in 90 degree heat while on c51s and not true racing slicks. Put the FD on slicks when it's 60 degrees out in Oct and it's jugging a 2 minute flat lap which would be close to impossible for the 6 GT3
PS a 2.04 lap at either watkins or VIR is an extremely ambitious goal for a TT FD but from what I can tell if anyone can it's smokey the talon
2.04 is just another day at the track for the 6 GT3 and it will do it for 15 laps
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 12-10-16 at 08:36 AM.
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RochX7 (08-14-22)
12-11-16, 04:56 PM
#85
Awesome thread
I just want to give some personal experience with oil blow-by. I have an aluminum "baffled" filler neck with a small vent barb going to a basic catch can. I also have another barb on the filler neck going to my UIM using the big OEM check valve. I only need to drain the catch can after a full track day, and mind you, my catch is pretty small. I do not have a return line going to my oil-pain which I've seen work really well on other FD's (almost ZERO blow by). My setup works well enough, and I do track often and try* to drive hard with sticky tires.
Keep the posts and videos coming
I just want to give some personal experience with oil blow-by. I have an aluminum "baffled" filler neck with a small vent barb going to a basic catch can. I also have another barb on the filler neck going to my UIM using the big OEM check valve. I only need to drain the catch can after a full track day, and mind you, my catch is pretty small. I do not have a return line going to my oil-pain which I've seen work really well on other FD's (almost ZERO blow by). My setup works well enough, and I do track often and try* to drive hard with sticky tires.
Keep the posts and videos coming
12-11-16, 10:36 PM
#87
Awesome thread
I just want to give some personal experience with oil blow-by. I have an aluminum "baffled" filler neck with a small vent barb going to a basic catch can. I also have another barb on the filler neck going to my UIM using the big OEM check valve. I only need to drain the catch can after a full track day, and mind you, my catch is pretty small. I do not have a return line going to my oil-pain which I've seen work really well on other FD's (almost ZERO blow by). My setup works well enough, and I do track often and try* to drive hard with sticky tires.
Keep the posts and videos coming
I just want to give some personal experience with oil blow-by. I have an aluminum "baffled" filler neck with a small vent barb going to a basic catch can. I also have another barb on the filler neck going to my UIM using the big OEM check valve. I only need to drain the catch can after a full track day, and mind you, my catch is pretty small. I do not have a return line going to my oil-pain which I've seen work really well on other FD's (almost ZERO blow by). My setup works well enough, and I do track often and try* to drive hard with sticky tires.
Keep the posts and videos coming
I've been thru many iterations with the catch can on the previous car and this one. Originally had the old turkey baster nozzle in the oil cap like Crispy did many moons ago. Had a different baffled fill neck and smaller lines. All seemed to provide similar results. Perhaps this motor has extra blow by? Not sure but it's done well otherwise.
I think my next attempt will be to run a stock oil neck and drill it to accept a -10 line to see if removing all restriction works any better.
12-11-16, 11:26 PM
#88
No alarming evidence of oil going through the UIM and burning by the engine. This means, my UIM is pretty dry inside, no smoke through the exhaust on track, no premature fouling of plugs or oily plugs. My oil level does not drop much, to the point where I get worried if my OMP is working or if fuel is saturating my oil faster than normal. But after almost 4 years of hard use on this engine, so far so good.
I know how frustrating oil blow by is. I cant explain why my setup works well but maybe you can try running the OEM line from you UIM to the filler and use the OEM PCV also. See what happens.
I know how frustrating oil blow by is. I cant explain why my setup works well but maybe you can try running the OEM line from you UIM to the filler and use the OEM PCV also. See what happens.
12-11-16, 11:27 PM
#89
Have you had any evidence of oil coming back thru the line to the intake and getting oil in the intake manifold? You using the stock PVC when you say the big OEM check valve?
I've been thru many iterations with the catch can on the previous car and this one. Originally had the old turkey baster nozzle in the oil cap like Crispy did many moons ago. Had a different baffled fill neck and smaller lines. All seemed to provide similar results. Perhaps this motor has extra blow by? Not sure but it's done well otherwise.
I think my next attempt will be to run a stock oil neck and drill it to accept a -10 line to see if removing all restriction works any better.
I've been thru many iterations with the catch can on the previous car and this one. Originally had the old turkey baster nozzle in the oil cap like Crispy did many moons ago. Had a different baffled fill neck and smaller lines. All seemed to provide similar results. Perhaps this motor has extra blow by? Not sure but it's done well otherwise.
I think my next attempt will be to run a stock oil neck and drill it to accept a -10 line to see if removing all restriction works any better.
FWIW I had one of the jaz 500ml (I think 500ml? it was small) catch cans on my previous FD and would only fill it up about 1/3rd way after a hard 20 minute session of tracking. (single turbo ~10psi / 320whp) it was fed via a -6 line threaded into the stock oil fill cap. pic below.
12-12-16, 08:21 AM
#90
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FWIW I had one of the jaz 500ml (I think 500ml? it was small) catch cans on my previous FD and would only fill it up about 1/3rd way after a hard 20 minute session of tracking. (single turbo ~10psi / 320whp) it was fed via a -6 line threaded into the stock oil fill cap. pic below.
How did you route the can? Line going into the can came out of the top on the fill neck and the line going back went where or was that blocked off and you simply left the stock system alone or let it vent back to the intake?
12-12-16, 05:57 PM
#91
Jacob did you still have the OEM pressure value in place going from fill neck to UIM or was that blocked off at the UIM?
How did you route the can? Line going into the can came out of the top on the fill neck and the line going back went where or was that blocked off and you simply left the stock system alone or let it vent back to the intake?
How did you route the can? Line going into the can came out of the top on the fill neck and the line going back went where or was that blocked off and you simply left the stock system alone or let it vent back to the intake?
simply the line on the fill cap going to the catch can with the vent/filter at the top. it seemed to work well. i'm not sure if this is usually the way people hook these up, but mine worked.
disregard the huge BOLT blockoff here. it was before i tapped it and used a plug :x
12-13-16, 11:42 AM
#92
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i had the stock check valve removed and blocked off, and the second port on the catch can blocked off.
simply the line on the fill cap going to the catch can with the vent/filter at the top. it seemed to work well. i'm not sure if this is usually the way people hook these up, but mine worked.
disregard the huge BOLT blockoff here. it was before i tapped it and used a plug :x
simply the line on the fill cap going to the catch can with the vent/filter at the top. it seemed to work well. i'm not sure if this is usually the way people hook these up, but mine worked.
disregard the huge BOLT blockoff here. it was before i tapped it and used a plug :x
I've never had catch can issues until recently and it's a major PIA. Either my engine is effed up, that sort of setup doesn't work for me, or this big *** turbo is the problem.
02-26-17, 09:16 AM
#93
Haven't been working on the car. Winter laziness combined with that it looks so nice and clean have kept me from messing with it up to this point. I have been ordering parts for it. I have both sets of new track wheels on order and got some junk slicks I'll use to mock up and set ride height.
I finally got the helmet I ordered last August! One of the big draws to this helmet is the integrated headset since I use one instructing so much. I'm still working out which communicator I'm going to use with it as my old one isn't compatable.
I took the car out to cars and coffee last weekend and was able to get about 75 miles on it over Presidents' Day weekend which was certainly nice for Feb.
I've started getting some of the photos from the photo shoot my friend did. He used a mix of actual film over a few cameras and some digital. Here are the ones I like so far. Last one is my favorite.
I finally got the helmet I ordered last August! One of the big draws to this helmet is the integrated headset since I use one instructing so much. I'm still working out which communicator I'm going to use with it as my old one isn't compatable.
I took the car out to cars and coffee last weekend and was able to get about 75 miles on it over Presidents' Day weekend which was certainly nice for Feb.
I've started getting some of the photos from the photo shoot my friend did. He used a mix of actual film over a few cameras and some digital. Here are the ones I like so far. Last one is my favorite.
02-27-17, 01:45 PM
#100
That's always been both the and struggle of this build. To have a track car that can perform as well as something I'd be proud to drive on the street...once again with the GT3 target in mind. I'm happy that I've been able to achieve that, but will have to make some compromises on the looks as I will raise the ride height this year to run slicks. I'm hoping the fun on track will be worth the trade off.