driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

Member Username: J.T.P.
Business: Hotline Performance

This Posting is a 10 day demand for a bill of sale for the 94 FD rolling shell I purchased from you on 2/22/14, which is offered for sale in the following threads (have screencaptures showing time stamps, and all necessary links saved to external hard drive - will upload if the links get removed):

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...assis-1057364/

https://www.rx7club.com/west-sale-wa...parts-1057260/

I've attempted to call, and text to no avail since 8/18/14.
I have also attempted to contact you on your Facebook business page prior to bringing it here. I will be submitting a formal written request via certified mail tomorrow morning in case you don't see this in the time specified here.

If you can text me at 702.758.6370, or email me at driftfcbuckey@gmail.com
I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'm posting this per recommendation of another moderator - My only intentions with this is simply for a resolution to our transaction (via the bill of sale that is still owed to me) that was not given to me at the time of purchase after I paid you for the car.

J.T.P.

iTrader: (13)

California Bill of Sale Form for Motor Vehicles at DMV.org: The DMV Made Simple

"Why Use a Bill of Sale?
If You Are the Seller-
Having a basic bill of sale helps you keep a record of the transaction details. California doesn’t legally require one

If You Are the Buyer-
Although the DMV provides a bill of sale form, it doesn’t require the buyer to present one for registration "
(meaning you could have registered this car without a bill of sale or title, IF you would have started the process)

Check your state laws before you start accusing and demanding others to do things.

Regardless of state law, you purchased the car "as is" as a parts car. You took delivery of the parts car with no title and no bill of sale and left with no issues. Your issues began when you failed to take responsibility and register the car in your name or even begin the process. Then to my knowledge you stored it at someones yard or shop and somehow became indebted to them in which they took your car as payment, or something to that effect. I have answered your calls, your girlfriends calls, your dads calls and have told you all the same thing. You purchased the car as is as a parts car with no title or bill of sale. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you are now in, but in the future I would hope you would handle things differently and not wait til it's too late to start the process of ownership via the DMV.

For anyone wondering why I won't just "help" Buckey out and give him a bill of sale, there are underlying issues with past transactions Buckey has been apart of that have effected me. I don't care to get into these online and air someones "dirty laundry" however I feel the need to mention it as to make those aware of other factors going into not just helping this guy out.

JBF

iTrader: (13)

So, a car was purchased as-is without a title?

I see no problem with this transaction.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

It wasn't sold without a bill of sale, however he did tell me it was without a title. I told him I planned to use the car and build it up and try to secure a title for it and i would need the bill of sale.

however - im not pointing fingers, im simply asking for a bill of sale. I put out cash, i should atleast get a receipt/bill of sale for the funds i've handed over. am i correct in thinking this?

Justin however did call me, and mentioned if i give him back his front and rear fenders on my FC and drive them out to him he will consider giving me a bill of sale, to which i agreed.

Im just looking for a bill of sale is all. im not saying anything bad about justin at all, im just saying we have an unresolved transaction, that i would like resolved. i purchased the vehicle under the understanding on our conversation prior to me leaving las vegas that it would have a bill of sale.

Justin is an awesome dude, and had nothing to do with what ultimately happened to the car, but there's a slim chance i can get the car back, and i need the bill of sale to do this. Im willing to give up my fenders from my drift car to do this.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

I will upload the forms ive faxed to the dmv in which the car is originally salvaged out of, and their return requests for a bill of sale. Im a little busy today but it will be done sometime today, or later tonight

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

edit: per forum rules i cannot upload private addresses. will another moderator aside from Justin be willing to look over the forms i have? i can scan them now. ill be here for another 10-15mins or so.

i can also include screenshots of our original conversation, and the part from august until fairly recently of me practically begging for a bill of sale that i can forward privately.

JBF

iTrader: (13)

Edit: None of my business.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

So I'm posting this long drawn out post to clear the air on the "fender situation that Justin is holding over my head, and I fully expect him to air his side of it as well. again this is all very petty to use against someone after selling a vehicle and refusing to give up a bill of sale, but thats my side and my opinion.

in late 2011, or early 2012 i contacted justin about running his fenders. I asked for help on pricing in exchange for promoting his shop, and spreading the word for his newly released rear "hotline" 50mm fenders.

Justin denied giving me any sort of discount which is fully understandable. Im a nobody compared to him. but it didnt hurt to ask... So my buddy paul and I loaded up, and headed out to cali for the sole purpose of purchasing fenders so i can get my FC together for round 1 of the 2012 season.
I paid $550 for the 2 rear fenders which i still have today but have modified by shaving the gas door since i have a fuel cell, and no longer need it.
on top of the $550 i paid $100 in gas to go get them. I thought it would be awesome to meet up with a dude i looked up to, and pretty much have followed to a T, as he is/was a generally seemingly good dude, and role model. I ended up saving $80 by driving and not shipping them. but i got to catch up with justin again which was cool and introduce my buddy who is super into FC to him.

So we get back to vegas I decided on my own to run his stickers to help out, and hopefully still show my support, and obviously - sell product for him. I ran his window banner on my car which was published all over the web at Vegas Drift RD1.

I continued linking people to his site, saying positive things, and mentioning them and tagging his shop or him directly in every single post i could.

fast forward to XDC Arizona 2012, and I make top 16 off 2 runs after having a ton of car issues. i couldnt sort out. regardless, we made the show, did opening ceremonies for countless media/spectators in attendance, went into top 16i and obviously i lose to Forrest and end my weekend. i park the car in the paddock for photos. all is done.

then head to formula drift long beach where i thought it would be beneficial to my shop, my driving, and pay back my sponsors and partners (who actually helped with product, or reduced rates, to get my car to these events to keep me driving) by displaying the car in the Fatlace showcase for the entire weekend.

I did this to do what i thought would help everyone all around by getting media coverage since i couldnt make the following round of vegas pro am (the same time i moved into my first commercial location and had overhead to worry about)

at some point right after FD Long beach Justin messages me, giving me all sorts of crap, about my rear fender install (mind you, that i paid 100% full cost for, and worked to market FOR FREE)

he goes on to tell me the body lines are all wrong, i didnt mount them correctly, i should have sagged them, etc etc. He tells me its an embarrassment for him to have his stickers on my car with his fenders looking so terribly, so i pulled off the vinyl and no longer linked anyone to his site, tagged his shop in any of my posts, as i felt hurt with what he said, when at the time, like him, worked very hard to get my car to events and gave him sticker space i could have used for someone else who would have appreciated the effort i put forth.

fast forward a few months or a year or whatever, and im taking a handful of parts to Makito at Shine Auto Project. I remembered previously that justin said something about his 45mm fenders were on back order or not available yet, or something or another... But he mentioned to me that Makito was making them for him.

While Makito and I are talking somehow we come about talking about the fenders, and i asked if they were for sale, or when they would be, and what pricing would be like. he said he had a set for his FC or something that he would sell for a price..I didnt low ball him, haggle, or anything i paid what he asked, and in doing so i never once thought Justin would be mad, or why it would even matter... i didnt have a single intention of "dicking Justin" on his "profit" for the fenders. I also purchased a roof wing from makito at this time.

months and months and months go by. im posting pictures of my car during paint, pics of the fenders after paint (they do look awesome, and fit well i have zero complaints with them)

one day literally a few days before or after i ask him for a bill of sale for the car (after asking at his shop too) he calls me blowing up about how i dicked him on these fenders, i went behind his back, and this that and the other.... it was a very petty conversation almost like i took his favorite toy.

he refused to give me the bill of sale based on these grounds, mentioning that had i been representing his shop like Hert with the V8 FC, and RADdan (at the time). i tried reasoning and bringing up the fact that he told me he never wanted me running his vinyl, and he couldnt come up with a reasonable answer. just talked in circles complaining to me about how i should have been representing his fenders for him....

I DID NOT BUILD MY CAR FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF MARKETING A BUSINESS. I BUILT MY CAR, TO DRIFT, HAVE FUN WITH, AND MAKE LOOK COOL AS A BUSINESS CARD EXAMPLE OF WHAT MY SHOP CAN DO.

Justin NEVER ONCE shared my car on a page of his, helped me with any form of discount on the fenders. As far as I'm concerned I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO RETURN 2 PAIRS OF FENDERS I PURCHASED WITH MY MONEY OVER HIM USING THIS AS LEVERAGE FOR A TRANSACTION WE HAD COMPLETELY SEPARATE TO THESE FENDERS!!!!!!!!

BUT YOU CAN SURE BET I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH HOTLINE PERFORMANCE, OR JTP SO IM FULLY AGREEING TO GIVE HIM HIS FENDERS BACK TO "SATISFY HIM" SO I CAN OBTAIN A BILL OF SALE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN.

A BILL OF SALE! SOMETHING FREE ONLINE, THAT COSTS LESS THAN $10 TO MAIL WITH GAS INCLUDED. ALL OF THIS DRAMA, OVER FENDERS. IS THIS SOMEONE YOU WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH?????? REALLY ASK YOURSELF BEFORE DEALING WITH HOTLINE PERFORMANCE OR JTP!!!!

-Makito, I'm deeply sorry for having to involve you in this. You helped me out tremendously at the time. Had you not sold me the fenders I simply would not have had my car together for the few events i had the chance to go to this year. I'm very sorry, and had i known this would be the result i absolutely would not have bought them. You are an awesome dude, and again im really sorry for all this.





PS:
I was there front and center making posts for when your green FC got stolen. i stayed up late looking on craigslist, making threads, posting info everywhere.. I hoped you would get your car back. I now know the feeling and im completely bummed the dude i looked up to and wanted to "follow in your footsteps" wasn't there in the slightest when my car got stolen from me. The very least you could have done was give me a small glimpse of hope at getting my FD back for what i did to put your green car links in front of as many websites i could and joining random forums and groups just to share the link to keep peoples eyes out for it.

You know yourself the amount of times i messaged you with pics from all forums i thought might have been some way related to your parts.


FD Vegas/Vegas drift booth at main gate entry....representing hotline...


XDC top 16...representing hotline.


Streets of Long Beach Formula Drift... representing hotline front and center, with your stickers on my fenders.

rx7roller02

Cool story bro....

now, can we get to the point that actually matters?

This is how you advertised this for sale:

1--if you intend to provide no title, you have an obligation to state that up front. You instead state that this is a salvage title car. To me, that says there is a title. To you, apparently, that means something else. If you have no title, then SAY UP FRONT that there is no title. That is a rather important detail for a car. Someone buying it only to strip it for parts would not care...someone wanting to make a project of it WILL care.

2--buyer states that he told you his intention to get this car back on the road. From that moment on, it should be common sense that he would need some kind of documentation. You as the seller are responsible for that.

3--I dont want to hear about some other transaction that had nothing to do with this sale. If you have a problem with him because of another sale, then post a feedback thread about it and handle that problem in that thread. This is a DIFFERENT sale and you should know better. You have the responsibility of treating him like any other buyer of your items. If you could not do that for him, then you had the responsibility of not selling to him in the first place. If you really had such a problem with him that you are so unwilling to write up a simple bill of sale, then you should never have sold it to him. I cant help but notice that you didnt seem to have a problem with selling to him when it came time to take the money from him, so why the hell should you have a problem delivering a simple piece of paper to him now?

Stop making this harder than it has to be. Give the guy a bill of sale and everyone can go their separate ways already. If you have such an issue with him about ANOTHER transaction, then as I said, handle it in its own thread and stop pretending that that deal gives you a reason not to handle your business properly now. Giving him a bill of sale is not "helping him out", it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. You advertised a car for sale, DID NOT state that it was parts only, or came with no title, etc. That puts you in the hot seat. Geez, take the five minutes and give the guy a bill of sale.

Oh, one more thing. You are from CA. He is from Nevada. CA state motor vehicle laws do not apply to him. He's trying to get the car registered in NV, so posting CA law and then lecturing him about how he should "check his state laws".

ZERO_YON

Before jtp gives a bill of sale, I highly suggest he check with the local dmv or authorities to ensure he in fact still has legal ownership of said vehicle. He can give a bill of sale to a vehicle if he no longer legally owns it.

rx7vargas

iTrader: (3)

.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

he can legally provide a bill of sale as the vehicle is still "property" my lawsuit with the person who stole the vehicle (more so kept from my recovery) is filed as a conversion of property.

Where had i had a bill of sale the vehicle would never have went to auction for a lien sale as an "abandoned vehicle" the car was never abandoned, i never owed a sum for the storage. I agreed to pay every demand to just regain possession of my car from the other party, but he knowingly knew i had no bill of sale, and thus used that to his advantage.

I can scan documents over showing my attempts to contact dmv prior to these issues mods, where they reply with my refunded money orders saying i need to prove ownership (bill of sale would suffice despite it being from the non registered owner back in 1999 when it was salvaged.)

i need to provide proof of ownership, for the first step. second step was to request info from the original owner in which the vehicle was "salvaged" to get them to claim the vehicle or release the title. Virginia is very strict on this.

id love to email these documents to you RX7 roller if you will allow?

rx7vargas

iTrader: (3)

Do an abandoned vehicle tittle. Go to dmv request a form to get the info and address of the past owner. After you get this send a certified letter to that adders with the forms with the intent to auction the car if they don't respond during that time or never sign for the letter you go back to the dmv with all the forms and letter and you get a tittle. Takes a month to do and cost 40 bucks at most.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

Nv law wont let me. Virginia DMV wont release the salvage title copy without contacting the owners there. the only way to obtain a title is how my "friend" kept the car from me. he sent it to impound for 30 days, it went to auction, i missed the public notice from not searching google, and now were here.



I just want my car back and its still in one piece within reach.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

i was trying to obtain a title to it well before this fiasco even happened. but when it did, i really kicked into overdrive and realized the severity of this bill of sale.

Im just asking for paper justin. im sorry about the fenders, that wasnt my intentions and i mean that dude. you know how you felt realizing your green car was gone? your first drift FC?

Well dude that was my first FD. and FD with history i got from you that i wanted to build sick, and put my REW setup from the purple car in. i wanted to have that done this year to drive this season.

i gave up a lot, i parted out a car, and sold the entire gt45 turbo set from the drift car and gave up the season, to go buy this car knowing that a set back for the month would be a better investment long term. i finally got my dream car and all of this seriously could have been avoided if i wouldve just demanded the bill of sale before leaving, or not even buying it. but i bought it, you knew what i wanted to do with it. you even said you wanted to see me get it and use it.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...rms/reg/reg135

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

1987 Mazda RX-7 Turbo-II - Import Tuner Magazine

import tuner coverage last year. despite the hurtful comment, i still supported you dude... read the article.

rx7roller02

No need. A bill of sale is a simple receipt. JTP could write up a bill of sale with the actual date of sale on it--it's not like he's going to claim that he is selling the car NOW. He sold the car back when he DID have proper possession and ownership of it, and a bill of sale showing that as of that date the car was sold would not violate any law whatsoever.

Funny thing, it's generally encouraged to provide a receipt for anything that one sells, or to seek a receipt for anything that one buys.....but in this case, $2500 changed hands and people are actually acting like it's too much to ask to provide a simple receipt. There is no excuse for that. I sold an old FC I had a couple years ago, for parts only...the car was sold for $400 and came with a bill of sale, no problem. Does not even matter if a DMV requires one or not, there's no good reason to take $2500 from someone without providing a receipt for the sale. It's called CYA, folks, and in this day and age there is simply no excuse for not doing it.

rx7roller02

That's really nice....but in the FS threads the seller listed this car as having a salvage title and made ZERO indication that no title or BOS would be provided. Sorry, doesnt work that way. On this forum, everyone should know by now that we will hold sellers responsible for the description of what they are selling.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

So where does this leave me, If JTP still wont be willing to provide me one? Will there be action taken against his account? Temp Ban? Negative ratings?

I'd just like a bill of sale. no harm no foul, ill try to pick up whatever pieces i can from here. this has really affected me, but im to blame for not demanding it.

rx7roller02

In the interest of fairness, I'd like to give JTP the chance to respond to what I have posted in here. I would hope that he would see what should be done and just make it happen in the interest of moving on. Let's see how he responds. I cannot imagine why it's worth making so much trouble over something that would take so little effort to resolve.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

My thought process ever since day 1. this all could have been completely avoided. i hate that it had to come to this.
Thank you for your time looking this over. It's greatly appreciated.

boostin serge

iTrader: (4)

i am just wondering why wasn't a bill of sale done at the time of transaction if you wanted one?
State of california as he said does NOT require a bill of sale. IF you wanted a bill of sale should of probably gotten one when you were purchasing a car. Not way later.

Also in regards to how the car was advertised salvage title etc. The buyer clearly bought the car as is. With all terms of the purchase known. IF the part of no title bothered him than should have probably not bought it. I am not trying to come off like a dick but how the car was advertised (title/no title) really doesn't make a difference if the deal was done in person with all the facts laid out. Its not the like the car was bought across country without seeing it and arrived with no title...

I am just a bit confused why you would buy a car with no title and no bill of sale, as a parts car and than later down the line think its the sellers duty to get you the Bill of sale. It would be nice of him to help you, but i don't see it as a negative thing if he doesn't.

driftfcbuckey

iTrader: (8)

I never bought an FD for a parts car. I dont build FDs, and i dont have an FD that needs parts.

I purchased it to build as justin knowingly knew the day before i loaded up and came out there to buy it from him. as soon as i handed him money at his computer he got lazy and started saying he had **** to do, and we agreed that it could wait a bit, because i wasnt going to immediately start building the car the second i got it back to Vegas. he knew it was going to sit on the back burner for awhile, and being the dude he is (seems to be) i never questioned his intentions.

rx7roller02

Here's the thing--what JTP quoted is false. Well, not false, because what he said is correct with regard to selling a car in CA. But this is not just selling a car in CA. CA has additional requirements for a salvage or junk car--requirements that JTP clearly did not post here and clearly did not follow in this sale. Here you go:

California Bill of Sale Form for Motor Vehicles at DMV.org: The DMV Made Simple

In other words, JTP WAS required to provide paperwork for this car. It's a salvage car that has been stripped of most of its parts. CA apparently considers this a "junk car". A junk vehicle carries the requirement that he request "junk" status for the car. He also was required to provide either a junk receipt or a bill of sale, which essentially seem to be the same thing, although the format may be different. There's more:

In CA, the reason why a BOS is optional is because a title is NOT optional. If there's a title, the car MUST be sold with the title. If there is no title, again, see the junk status above. Either way, he WAS required to provide documents with this car. And he did not. That is not the buyer's fault. What's more, there is a "notice of transfer and release of liability" that is REQUIRED on ALL car sales, whether private party or otherwise. I do not see anything that shows that JTP did that either. This sale was not properly done, and now I have just showed you what California requirements say, straight from the DMV. End of story.

Every car sold by private party is "as-is". Most cars sold by dealers today are "as-is". NOTHING in the "as-is" status absolves the seller from these requirements, as noted above.

That's funny, I dont seem to recall you being a party to that sale. So, please, let's stop trying to fill in the blanks with your own interpretations here. There IS a question of what exactly the agreement was, because the two parties are claiming two different things. And you were not there, so please stop trying to tell us as though you were witness to everything that happened.


He contends that the seller was made aware of his intentions. He also contends that he was told at the time he picked the car up that a BOS would be provided for him. He had no reason not to trust that. Again, were you there for all of the conversations? I didnt think so. Please stick to what you know and stop guessing at the rest.


Were you there when "all the facts were laid out"? No, you sure were not. Again, let's stop the guessing here.

One of the few things I do know about driftbuckey is that he did not own an FD at the time he bought this one. He had no need for a parts car FD. He bought this car to make a running FD. There's no other reason. And this isnt about "it would be nice"....it's about doing what CA laws required him to do at that time. He has not done that. And it's something, for him to come here and say things like:
--when he's the one that got this wrong in the first place.

At this point, the conversation in this thread really needs to be limited to the staff and the two parties involved, please. Everyone has their opinions and you are certainly entitled to those, but no one is entitled to the wrong "facts". Thanks

boostin serge

iTrader: (4)

i find it odd that you call me out on knowing certain facts like what they agreed on and what they didn't yet you decided to state that you know what the buyer was going to do/not do with the car?

I guess i was mus-informed on the cali law so ill take back my statement.

Either way good luck to both parties. I think its safe to say from now one if anyone tries to buy a car or any property, they should probably get paperwork on the spot instead of waiting and trusting a stranger. If i try to buy a car and want a bill of sale and someone says they are too busy to fill out a 5 min bill of sale form, that sort of throws a red flag to me.