When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Here is my experience of purchase and customer experience from Final Form USA.
1) late Nov 2016 - RE CF hood was received with a chip damage from shipping due to insufficient packaging. I reported back to Final Form USA seeking remedy. They responded and confirmed the claim being filed with DHL.
2) late Dec 2016 - received response from FInal Form USA that the claim was not being reimbursed by DHL. And they agreed to refund half of the repair bill at the moment to allow repair to be completed while they seeked reimbursement from 3rd party insurer.
3) early Jan 2017, a final repair bill was sent to Final Form USA.
3) mid Jan 2017, Final Form USA responded back to my email inquiry on the status of the refund asking for more time to allow insurance processing.
4) early Feb 2017, I sent another email inquiry and asked the rest of the refund as it had been 2 months since the refund commitment was given in Dec 2016.
4) Mid Feb 2017, multiple emails, VMs, and PM were sent but got no reply while they continue to advertise their service and products.
5) minutes after my post on this forum, I got a FINAL communication from them claiming that me being a unreasonable and taking advantage of them.
Here are communication of our past interactions so you can judge yourself. Best luck to those working with Final Form USA.
We shipped to you the hood, via DHL express. You received your hood at Trackspec and at that time discovered a chip on the side of the hood which looks to be caused by a puncture on the side of the box per your photos.
On November 23rd, 2016, we replied with: Edwin, there are a few options, but since we don’t have your hood in front of us, we will need your help to make the claim with DHL. DHL | Claims | English
To process the claim all of the following items must be provided:
• A copy of the waybill, if available.
• Documentation supporting the amount claimed- e.g. a vendor/supplier invoice and a retail invoice.
• If the item was purchased or sold via the Internet, documentation of that transaction is required.
• If not repairable, a statement from a repair technician confirming the non-repairable condition.
• Repair invoice or salvage report, if applicable.
• Photographs of the damaged item(s) and packaging (please include both inner and outer packaging)
For quicker claim filing, please zip the files into files limited to 3MB or less and have ready for upload.
Providing all the documents will allow for resolution of most claims within 30 calendar days.
DHL Express reserves the right to inspect, re-inspect, or salvage any shipment of any value when evaluating or resolving a damage claim, therefore all packaging and contents should be retained until the claim is concluded. All inspections should be done at the original delivery location, failure by the consignee to retain the original shipment and packaging at the original delivery location or the failure to make said items available for inspection or retrieval may invalidate the claim.
Again, the hood was 100% insured for the full amount paid, so if we have to go down this road, we are confident in DHL to resolve this, and we are here to help, Edwin.
On all of DHL shipments, it is up to the receiving end to make all claims, BUT, we wanted to help you with the process and not leave you out to dry, as we do for any and all customers. You gave us an original quote of $433 to fix the hood during our initial conversation. On November 29th, you said the price went up to $638, and not $433 as you first emailed us.
During this time, we not only contacted DHL, but also provided to you, your personal contact which was on December 7th, 2016; For your records, this is her information:
Joyce Meriott
Cargo Claims Adjuster
DHL Express, USA
Phone: 1-800-273-4530 x53075
We provided DHL with the information you provided, because at this point, it is not us that inspects damaged shipped goods and it is not us who provides reimbursement for damages caused by shipping. We insure everything we ship, but it is through the shipping company.
On December 29th, 2016 we sent you an email letting you know that we were still trying to have DHL Japan side try to resolve things but there has been some pushback on DHL USA’s side, but we do have a secondary insurance that will try to cover damages, but is an extremely slow process. We sympathized with your patience, and OFFERED to pay you HALF of the updated $638 amount it would take to fix the chip of the side of the hood, while we await for that insurance to pay YOU the full amount for the damages.
You then sent us another email on January 9th, 2017 that showed an even higher amount of $750 (but absolutely no breakdown of how this number was derived). We had told you that it would take a very long time to get this reimbursement from the secondary insurance, but yet you sent us an email on February 15, 2017 that demanded that we pay you the difference of $430.57 (less the $319.43 we paid to you on January 7th, 2016) within the next 48 hours.
We do not understand why the demand for an even higher amount that was NOT agreed upon, when we had been in constant communication, and have gone well above and beyond our normal duties as a vendor by not only helping YOU fulfill your damage claim, but also reaching out to DHL in both the USA and Japan and even went so far as to pay for half the damages knowing you would be getting a check for the full amount by the insurance.
So we see you want to make this information public, which we welcome, but we do strongly believe at this point you are now taking advantage of us.
We advise you to seek further compensation directly with DHL express, and have provided all of the information you would need.
This is such a tough one and gives people a good "behind the scenes" of why importing things like this is such a thankless task. You do everything the "right" way and it's still a predicament no one wants to be in.
In a perfect world, DHL and/or AIU reimburses the cost, end of conversation. It seems to me there was an external puncture and that's what caused the damage and no amount of cardboard or foam would have really prevented it. But the insurance business doesn't make their money honoring their policies, right?
So now FF goes above and beyond to try and hasten the process and "make things right" for the customer to the best of their abilities. Whatever the reason, the initial quote the body shop gave didn't match up with the end cost. I've had this happened before. That simple fact doesn't mean the buyer is taking advantage of anyone. He's simply following the steps FF put forth, right? But where it gets murky is that the price went up twice, ($433 > $638 > $750)... the second time AFTER being paid $319.
Listen guys, at this point it's, what? $56 ($750/2 - $319)? As a buyer, I know it's difficult to get nickled and dimed - but as a business - its even more difficult to take these losses time and time again. I'm not sure what people picture when they think of "Final Form USA" - but I highly doubt this is a Fortune 500 company. It's people that are passionate about these cars and work hard to bring cool stuff to us... without making a bunch of money at it (trust me, there's VERY little money in the parts "business").
Maybe you guys can work out some sort of future "coupon" for the additional amount due and we can all stay friends?
MattGold, I agree with what most of what you say. However, as I read it AIU have not declined the claim - the OP is just impatient with the process. I get it, shipping damage sucks a lot especially on an item like this. With DHL though, the recipient needs to go through the process of filing and carrying through with a claim. It's frustrating to deal with but you can't just shrug it off. As I see it, FF have not only started this process and gone down several different avenues to try and bring this to resolution quickly but at this point it's a waiting game that he has no control over. Paying half the repair bill out of pocket before the insurance payout is a genuine gesture and I have bought more than enough parts like this to know that it is an uncommon move.
Fuhnortoner, seriously? Shipping an item like that would cost more than the repair (which has already been completed). A lot of Amemiya stuff is made to order as well.
Thanks all for sharing your thoughts. Here are couple facts
1) change of quote - initial quote was incorrectly given by the repair shop which I subsequent provided full details upon discovery. The last quote was also given to FF without any follow up/reference needed by FF - it should not be a surprise and not the relavent fact for decision or discussion. Don't get distracted of the real issue here - seller obligation vs buyer's right.
2) buyer being impatient - after the initial reimbursement give in late December, I have been patiently waited for 2 more month. After expressing my desire to close the case without getting any update for 3 weeks after the 2 months, I escalated the action only getting a "final response" from FF - who is being unreasonable? There is also inconsistent comments - email from FF around the AIU takes "a little longer"vs comment now being "a much longer process"
3) Bottom line - the seller has obligation to ensure the shipment safely arrive in buyer's hands. The relationship is between the seller and insurance company especially after DHL declined the claim. The buyer has no implied or expressed relationship between the so called 3rd party insurance based on FF's email commitment in Dec (no case # or any reference of the claim whatsoever). As a reasonanle buyer who paid for full amount but had a less than described product for 4 months while paying out of pocket to make situation right, I am always open for discussion; but it should not be on the expense of the buyer due to poor packaging (1 layer of bubble wrap) and "bad luck" from shipping - that is part of the risk for being a seller in the business to be brutally honest. Without any reply ignoring a customer concern for weeks and decided to make it a last communication when it escalated to public awareness, simply unacceptable in any profession!
I had not given any bashing or name calling in all of my communication publicly or privately. I am stating my experience and facts for others to decide if they should pursue a business transaction with FF, or me, in the future.
The process of claim has begun as I mentioned. I will let the process to take care of this issue. If I end up getting nothing, people can learn the lesson from me.
Thanks all for sharing your thoughts. Here are couple facts
1) change of quote - initial quote was incorrectly given by the repair shop which I subsequent provided full details upon discovery. The last quote was also given to FF without any follow up/reference needed by FF - it should not be a surprise and not the relavent fact for decision or discussion. Don't get distracted of the real issue here - seller obligation vs buyer's right.
2) buyer being impatient - after the initial reimbursement give in late December, I have been patiently waited for 2 more month. After expressing my desire to close the case without getting any update for 3 weeks after the 2 months, I escalated the action only getting a "final response" from FF - who is being unreasonable? There is also inconsistent comments - email from FF around the AIU takes "a little longer"vs comment now being "a much longer process"
3) Bottom line - the seller has obligation to ensure the shipment safely arrive in buyer's hands. The relationship is between the seller and insurance company especially after DHL declined the claim. The buyer has no implied or expressed relationship between the so called 3rd party insurance based on FF's email commitment in Dec (no case # or any reference of the claim whatsoever). As a reasonanle buyer who paid for full amount but had a less than described product for 4 months while paying out of pocket to make situation right, I am always open for discussion; but it should not be on the expense of the buyer due to poor packaging (1 layer of bubble wrap) and "bad luck" from shipping - that is part of the risk for being a seller in the business to be brutally honest. Without any reply ignoring a customer concern for weeks and decided to make it a last communication when it escalated to public awareness, simply unacceptable in any profession!
I had not given any bashing or name calling in all of my communication publicly or privately. I am stating my experience and facts for others to decide if they should pursue a business transaction with FF, or me, in the future.
The process of claim has begun as I mentioned. I will let the process to take care of this issue. If I end up getting nothing, people can learn the lesson from me.
1) buyer is on his own when product is arrived with damages.
2) they can help, which I appreciated, to the best. But if DHL declines the claim due to shipper error, they will work with AIU but no guaranteed on the time frame or possibility on getting reimbursement.
3) when buyer asks for solution after months, they will give you no response until you make it public. At that time you will be told a final response is not to work with you anymore.
Best luck to those willing to work with this business model. A private seller is held responsible for item with damage caused during shipping; however, the same standard does not apply to vendor? If that is true, I would like to confirm so everyone can reset our expectation.
This is such a tough one and gives people a good "behind the scenes" of why importing things like this is such a thankless task. You do everything the "right" way and it's still a predicament no one wants to be in.
In a perfect world, DHL and/or AIU reimburses the cost, end of conversation. It seems to me there was an external puncture and that's what caused the damage and no amount of cardboard or foam would have really prevented it. But the insurance business doesn't make their money honoring their policies, right?
So now FF goes above and beyond to try and hasten the process and "make things right" for the customer to the best of their abilities. Whatever the reason, the initial quote the body shop gave didn't match up with the end cost. I've had this happened before. That simple fact doesn't mean the buyer is taking advantage of anyone. He's simply following the steps FF put forth, right? But where it gets murky is that the price went up twice, ($433 > $638 > $750)... the second time AFTER being paid $319.
Listen guys, at this point it's, what? $56 ($750/2 - $319)? As a buyer, I know it's difficult to get nickled and dimed - but as a business - its even more difficult to take these losses time and time again. I'm not sure what people picture when they think of "Final Form USA" - but I highly doubt this is a Fortune 500 company. It's people that are passionate about these cars and work hard to bring cool stuff to us... without making a bunch of money at it (trust me, there's VERY little money in the parts "business").
Maybe you guys can work out some sort of future "coupon" for the additional amount due and we can all stay friends?
1) I would suggest you to re-read the email commmunciation again. DHL has already declined the claim. The shop showed and confirmed the packaging material to be minimal with only 1 layer of bubble wrap.
2) the incorrect quote was reclarified and confirmed by FF hence the reimbursement was given AFTER. The amount had gone up ONCE at the completion of repair. Bill was sent to FF for reference without contest until now - 2 months after without any prior communication from FF.
3) I am always open for solution and proposal knowing it is a small business. Yet, ignoring customer concern after I have been patiently waiting without any update from his so call AIU and simply refuse to take further responsibility by giving FINAL communication after giving no response for 3 weeks until I brought this to the public? Unacceptable.
4) again, DHL is not honoring the claim. FF is the one proposing to go thru his outside insurance - that was the right thing to do intially as a responsible seller and I was thankful. But after 2 months without further update, I have the right to raise concern and demand for solution. If there is disagreement or other solution, communication,not ignorance, is the key.
1) I would suggest you to re-read the email commmunciation again. DHL has already declined the claim. The shop showed and confirmed the packaging material to be minimal with only 1 layer of bubble wrap.
2) the incorrect quote was reclarified and confirmed by FF hence the reimbursement was given AFTER. The amount had gone up ONCE at the completion of repair. Bill was sent to FF for reference without contest until now - 2 months after without any prior communication from FF.
3) I am always open for solution and proposal knowing it is a small business. Yet, ignoring customer concern after I have been patiently waiting without any update from his so call AIU and simply refuse to take further responsibility by giving FINAL communication after giving no response for 3 weeks until I brought this to the public? Unacceptable.
4) again, DHL is not honoring the claim. FF is the one proposing to go thru his outside insurance - that was the right thing to do intially as a responsible seller and I was thankful. But after 2 months without further update, I have the right to raise concern and demand for solution. If there is disagreement or other solution, communication,not ignorance, is the key.
1) Listen, I get it. I'm not taking sides (obviously) and pushing for an amicable solution. Obviously you paid a ton for an authentic product, through a reputable seller and want tip-top service. I get it.
I understand DHL declined the claim. In a perfect world they pay it. But that's not how they make money. But also understand, it's not Final Form that packages it. RE-A (or whoever/whatever you're buying) does. This doesn't excuse anything, but asking Final Form why they didn't pack it better is moot. Should RE-A have packed it better? Yeah, but they didn't.
2) No worries on the incorrect quote, again, I get it. I've had it happen to me as well.
2/3) I also understand that this is morphing from the original issue of reimbursement to one of customer service. No one likes to have to hound someone else for their money/product/etc. The other side of that coin is; you're dealing with a small team, who is dealing with an insurance company, which is the biggest PITA to get info from period. I've waited on pins and needles to get answers from insurance and only knew the result once the check was actually sent. Sooo, yeah.
3/4) I get it. Final Form is now trying "Plan B". But instead of having you wait with no updates and no money in your pocket, at least you got reimbursed some portion of the agreed amount. I'm not excusing this as it seems there is still $56 due... but at this point, that's what we're talking about, right? $56 and the question of "good" or "bad" customer service?
I'm sure you don't need me to tell you... **** happens. It sucks, especially when it happens to you. Would I be happy in this situation? No. However, I think if you isolate the current issue ($56 / customer service) it'll be easier to come to a solution.
Good luck. Honestly, I have no dog in the fight. I hope you guys work it out.
That sucks, I'm surprised DHL declined the claim. When I order the GReddy V-mount kit from Nengun, the ducting mount on the IC was damaged during shipping. DHL wanted me to find a shop to repair it locally and they'll pay for the bill, I declined so they came picked up the damage IC and delivered a new one from GReddy. Everything was arranged by the person I talk to at Nengun, issue took about 4 weeks to resolve.
That sucks, I'm surprised DHL declined the claim. When I order the GReddy V-mount kit from Nengun, the ducting mount on the IC was damaged during shipping. DHL wanted me to find a shop to repair it locally and they'll pay for the bill, I declined so they came picked up the damage IC and delivered a new one from GReddy. Everything was arranged by the person I talk to at Nengun, issue took about 4 weeks to resolve.
Honestly. So am I.
DHL has always been really responsive to any claims I've had. I should note, I *did* have to reach out to them as the recipient and coordinate time for them to come to my house and inspect the part (it was a fiberglass rear wing). But after the inspection, they took it back and the seller had another one on my door in about a month.
MattGold, appreciate your comments. The outstanding repair bill due is not $56 but $430 - that is the seller's responsibility to restore the condition of the product to its original stage. The key is about I have to wait for FF's 3rd party insurance to pay to him then I will, if the claim is ever granted, get reimbursed. From my point, when DHL declines, FF owns it. FF's rectification with AIU is for his protection. Buyer has no due interest in such.
Simple example, someone owes you money. Then he said he won't able to pay you until he gets pay from another person. And he asks you be patient after stating initially that the process takes a little longer. You send him an email after 2 months asking to pay up, he doesn't reply for 3 weeks until you share with all of your friends. Then he tells you that it is his final communication that he won't help you to go after someone owes him the money so he can pay you up!?
DHL has always been really responsive to any claims I've had. I should note, I *did* have to reach out to them as the recipient and coordinate time for them to come to my house and inspect the part (it was a fiberglass rear wing). But after the inspection, they took it back and the seller had another one on my door in about a month.
i was also surprised to hear from FF that the claim was declined; however, when I inspected the packaging, there was only one layer of bubble wrap - it was a control point failure. I realized that it was not FF's intentional fault which was why I have been waiting since late November; yet, wouldn't be FF's role to go after RE when RE made a mistake? Why I, as the buyer, needs to go fight my battle with a party which I have no direct business transaction? That is reason why the seller exists in the first place - their job is to take the risk and to facilitate the transaction until the buyer gets the product in described condition.
Ok. I retract my GIF. I may have missed a couple things from the conversation.
On the e-mails that you screenshotted Final Form says: "We have back up insurance that covers all of our high dollar aero through an insurance company called AIU. AIU takes longer but they will cover any damages IF DHL doesn't. The process take a little longer because DHL basically has to deny damages caused by them and then they will cover any amount for damage within reason." they go onto say "Final Form USA will pay for half the damages now, but we must wait for the AIU insurance to pay out. At that time, they will send the full amount for damages, and we will just take back the half that we put in if that makes sense."
So, the agreement WASN'T to pay half ($375)... but the ENTIRE repair amount ($750). Final Form was just waiting on AIU to pay out before paying you the other half. Hmmmmmm...
This was also back on 12/29... about 60 days ago. It puts your case for "just pay me already" in a different light.
Three questions...
1) Did someone from DHL actually come out and inspect the hood / packaging and say "no, we're not covering this"?
2) What was the extent of interactions you had with DHL? Did you give them everything they needed on the list FF posted?
3) Did someone from AIU come out and do anything of the sort?
As for the e-mail sent by Final Form on 2/27 you posted. I would ask WTF happened to AIU? On 12/29, the story was "AIU takes longer but they will cover any damages IF DHL doesn't" - but somehow that seems to be ignored now?
Ok. I retract my GIF. I may have missed a couple things from the conversation.
On the e-mails that you screenshotted Final Form says: "We have back up insurance that covers all of our high dollar aero through an insurance company called AIU. AIU takes longer but they will cover any damages IF DHL doesn't. The process take a little longer because DHL basically has to deny damages caused by them and then they will cover any amount for damage within reason." they go onto say "Final Form USA will pay for half the damages now, but we must wait for the AIU insurance to pay out. At that time, they will send the full amount for damages, and we will just take back the half that we put in if that makes sense."
So, the agreement WASN'T to pay half ($375)... but the ENTIRE repair amount ($750). Final Form was just waiting on AIU to pay out before paying you the other half. Hmmmmmm...
This was also back on 12/29... about 60 days ago. It puts your case for "just pay me already" in a different light.
Three questions...
1) Did someone from DHL actually come out and inspect the hood / packaging and say "no, we're not covering this"?
2) What was the extent of interactions you had with DHL? Did you give them everything they needed on the list FF posted?
3) Did someone from AIU come out and do anything of the sort?
As for the e-mail sent by Final Form on 2/27 you posted. I would ask WTF happened to AIU? On 12/29, the story was "AIU takes longer but they will cover any damages IF DHL doesn't" - but somehow that seems to be ignored now?
This is starting to look like Bad Form...
Thanks for the questions.
1) yes, DHL did come out and inspect the hood. See below for email chain.
2) Per agreement between FF and me, they are facilitating the contact with DHL. DHL came out to inspect the hood but never return my call when such contact info was provided by FF. I had shared with FF on that already. FF then informed me that DHL was no go (see my previous email . All docs and references were given to FF.
3) all I got from FF was just a verbal confirmation about AIU. No one showed up. No claim #. No status or process of such.
Now I hope all of you can see the accusion toward me being 1) not following the DHL claim process and not cooperative, 2) being unreasonable on reimbursement expectation and price quote, 3) taking advantage of FF for their "beyond call of duty", are all not warranted base on all the previous screen shots of email communications.
Mr. Feng filed a dispute with PayPal the same day he posted this thread.
He stated his case against us and PayPal put a hold on the entire amount of the hood.
We stated our case as well and provided ALL evidence.
This is the last message we received from PayPal regarding this case:
"Dear Final Form USA,
The following case was found in your favor. Any hold on this transaction has been removed.
This claim does not qualify for a refund because it does not meet our definition of Significantly Not as Described. This case is now closed, but we still encourage you to work directly with your buyer to find a resolution."
Thank you to all who was willing to hear out our side of this unfortunate transaction. We pride ourselves in providing the best customer service, but as we all know, sometimes it is not enough, and while unfortunate, we always try to go the extra mile when it comes to customer satisfaction (within reason).
Mr. Feng filed a dispute with PayPal the same day he posted this thread.
He stated his case against us and PayPal put a hold on the entire amount of the hood.
We stated our case as well and provided ALL evidence.
This is the last message we received from PayPal regarding this case:
"Dear Final Form USA,
The following case was found in your favor. Any hold on this transaction has been removed.
This claim does not qualify for a refund because it does not meet our definition of Significantly Not as Described. This case is now closed, but we still encourage you to work directly with your buyer to find a resolution."
Thank you to all who was willing to hear out our side of this unfortunate transaction. We pride ourselves in providing the best customer service, but as we all know, sometimes it is not enough, and while unfortunate, we always try to go the extra mile when it comes to customer satisfaction (within reason).
It was disappointing that Paypal declined my claim simply due to the fact that the hood was already repaired - the Buyer Protection from Paypal does not cover when the damaged good has been altered.
Yes, it was a lesson for me. Nevertheless, I am a realist. If Final Form USA is a stand up buyer as he claims, please provide the claim# and contact info for AIU so I can follow up directly myself and retrieve the remaining outstanding balance of the repair.
02-26-17, 02:48 PM
