What Intercooler?
01-10-09, 04:49 AM
#101
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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I just don't understand why you or anyone for that matter would not want to use an intercooler. I understand what you are saying with Ken's post but a lot of modified cars moved back to running intercoolers as Enzo also noted. In my opinion you are going backwards not running an intercooler. The new cores have a 1-2psi pressure drop so pressure drop should not be a concern.
I'm speaking from experience now. For those who don't know me personally, I tune my own car and build my own motors. I did not miss a track event last year with my FD. I ran all season, from 30degF - 120degF track temps. I run a minimum of 30psi at the track at 22 psi on the street. Last year one of my biggest issues was high intake temps. This year at the Pan Ams, the track temps were over 120deg. My intake temps were through the roof! I can only imagine what they would be if I did not have an intercooler. I have almost every single datalog of every pass down the quarter mile or dyno for the past 2 years. You would not believe the difference in power a drop of 50 degrees makes on a street car. For every 10 deg you drop your intake temps, you pick up about 2% more HP. Calculate a drop of say 50deg against a 500HP car! Do you see what I am getting at? I picked up about 40-50 HP by bringing my intake temps down. You would not believe how much power you would pick up with a water to air intercooler, probably my next move for track only events.
I just got home with the FD and I put about 100 miles on my FD tonight, my fd is not a drag only car. This summer in 100deg weather I had NO issues with cooling with a large front mount. I also have a smaller radiator and a single FD fan cooling the car, I have driven in traffic etc and again, I have no issues with coolant temps.
For the ones that think removing an intercooler is a good idea, datalog a high boost pass with and without an intercooler and both with the meth injection, not just a simple pull but a 1st through 4th gear run and post the data. I think most would be surprised what the results would be. I have spent hours comparing notes with fellow racers last year about the intake temps at the top of 4th gear and I have an intercooler, meth injection and now E85, I can only imagine what they would be without an intercooler!!! But what do I know, I'm just a follower
Anthony
I'm speaking from experience now. For those who don't know me personally, I tune my own car and build my own motors. I did not miss a track event last year with my FD. I ran all season, from 30degF - 120degF track temps. I run a minimum of 30psi at the track at 22 psi on the street. Last year one of my biggest issues was high intake temps. This year at the Pan Ams, the track temps were over 120deg. My intake temps were through the roof! I can only imagine what they would be if I did not have an intercooler. I have almost every single datalog of every pass down the quarter mile or dyno for the past 2 years. You would not believe the difference in power a drop of 50 degrees makes on a street car. For every 10 deg you drop your intake temps, you pick up about 2% more HP. Calculate a drop of say 50deg against a 500HP car! Do you see what I am getting at? I picked up about 40-50 HP by bringing my intake temps down. You would not believe how much power you would pick up with a water to air intercooler, probably my next move for track only events.
I just got home with the FD and I put about 100 miles on my FD tonight, my fd is not a drag only car. This summer in 100deg weather I had NO issues with cooling with a large front mount. I also have a smaller radiator and a single FD fan cooling the car, I have driven in traffic etc and again, I have no issues with coolant temps.
For the ones that think removing an intercooler is a good idea, datalog a high boost pass with and without an intercooler and both with the meth injection, not just a simple pull but a 1st through 4th gear run and post the data. I think most would be surprised what the results would be. I have spent hours comparing notes with fellow racers last year about the intake temps at the top of 4th gear and I have an intercooler, meth injection and now E85, I can only imagine what they would be without an intercooler!!! But what do I know, I'm just a follower
Anthony
I need to add.
No IC temp or AIT or charge temp can be quoted till you are at the end of 4th gear and near 240kph or so. The diff between 3rd gear and 4th is large... so fully agree with this statement. I had some old logs from 1996 on an Autronic ECU and looked through an IC with sub 60% eff V's one with 80% Ve (larger size and fully ducted) and the difference in temp and power was amazing.
01-10-09, 11:30 AM
#102
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
I guess we shall see, then. I'm enjoying reading the responses here from folks. On this issue, we seem to be divided into two camps: A very large group of all gasoline, pro intercooler folks and a much smaller, pro AI group who's questioning the efficacy of intercoolers. I obviously fit into the smaller group because I think there's something to AI; I think there's something not just good about it but radically good to the point where it ought to compel us to take another hard look at how we modify our cars.
I'm not denying that an air-to-air intercooler can work. I just don't like the approach. I never have. I don't like the idea of sticking a 2" massive brick of aluminum in front of a radiator and oil cooler that not only drops pressure but also raises temperature of the ram air going to those other heat exchangers. I also don't like the idea of using this massive brick as a heat-sink to pull heat out of compressed air when there may be better methods of doing it even though they may go against the grain of what the normal enthusiast does to modify their car. Air isn't the best heat exchanger. The question I beg in all of this is this: "Can alcohol (or even water) perform the same, if not better, job of doing the same job an air-to-air intercooler does?" I agree with Enzo that we shouldn't all rush out to unbolt our intercoolers (and I'm not suggesting that people do) but I still think this whole thing deserves a legitimate change of thinking and approach.
My rationale behind it still stands: my old hardware setup that shouldn't have worked but for some strange reason did. I'd like folks here to take a closer look at it and, if I may ask, try and appreciate it. I ran a smaller T4 turbo (60mm) that I overspun to death. I ran over 25lbs of boost a jillion times on the highway, trying to beat the thing up, but it never did. I did this with a vastly inferior intercooler (stock top mount) that's not only arguably too small for the job but is also contingent on hood scoop and hood aerodynamics. My post-turbo EGT's (with the probe located about 3" past the v-band) were 1300*F under load and were never higher. Why is that? Why was the motor so cold even though I had things stacked against it that should've sent those EGT's to Mars (truly, EGT's are where the buck stops anyways)? The only conclusion I can come up with is at those loads the intercooler wasn't doing a damn thing and was all alcohol. I've no idea of the actual IAT's because I had the nozzles parked in the same place as the sensor but nonetheless it seemed to work.
B
I'm not denying that an air-to-air intercooler can work. I just don't like the approach. I never have. I don't like the idea of sticking a 2" massive brick of aluminum in front of a radiator and oil cooler that not only drops pressure but also raises temperature of the ram air going to those other heat exchangers. I also don't like the idea of using this massive brick as a heat-sink to pull heat out of compressed air when there may be better methods of doing it even though they may go against the grain of what the normal enthusiast does to modify their car. Air isn't the best heat exchanger. The question I beg in all of this is this: "Can alcohol (or even water) perform the same, if not better, job of doing the same job an air-to-air intercooler does?" I agree with Enzo that we shouldn't all rush out to unbolt our intercoolers (and I'm not suggesting that people do) but I still think this whole thing deserves a legitimate change of thinking and approach.
My rationale behind it still stands: my old hardware setup that shouldn't have worked but for some strange reason did. I'd like folks here to take a closer look at it and, if I may ask, try and appreciate it. I ran a smaller T4 turbo (60mm) that I overspun to death. I ran over 25lbs of boost a jillion times on the highway, trying to beat the thing up, but it never did. I did this with a vastly inferior intercooler (stock top mount) that's not only arguably too small for the job but is also contingent on hood scoop and hood aerodynamics. My post-turbo EGT's (with the probe located about 3" past the v-band) were 1300*F under load and were never higher. Why is that? Why was the motor so cold even though I had things stacked against it that should've sent those EGT's to Mars (truly, EGT's are where the buck stops anyways)? The only conclusion I can come up with is at those loads the intercooler wasn't doing a damn thing and was all alcohol. I've no idea of the actual IAT's because I had the nozzles parked in the same place as the sensor but nonetheless it seemed to work.
B
01-10-09, 12:13 PM
#103
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
I guess we shall see, then. I'm enjoying reading the responses here from folks. On this issue, we seem to be divided into two camps: A very large group of all gasoline, pro intercooler folks and a much smaller, pro AI group who's questioning the efficacy of intercoolers. I obviously fit into the smaller group because I think there's something to AI; I think there's something not just good about it but radically good to the point where it ought to compel us to take another hard look at how we modify our cars.
I'm not denying that an air-to-air intercooler can work. I just don't like the approach. I never have. I don't like the idea of sticking a 2" massive brick of aluminum in front of a radiator and oil cooler that not only drops pressure but also raises temperature of the ram air going to those other heat exchangers. I also don't like the idea of using this massive brick as a heat-sink to pull heat out of compressed air when there may be better methods of doing it even though they may go against the grain of what the normal enthusiast does to modify their car. Air isn't the best heat exchanger. The question I beg in all of this is this: "Can alcohol (or even water) perform the same, if not better, job of doing the same job an air-to-air intercooler does?" I agree with Enzo that we shouldn't all rush out to unbolt our intercoolers (and I'm not suggesting that people do) but I still think this whole thing deserves a legitimate change of thinking and approach.
My rationale behind it still stands: my old hardware setup that shouldn't have worked but for some strange reason did. I'd like folks here to take a closer look at it and, if I may ask, try and appreciate it. I ran a smaller T4 turbo (60mm) that I overspun to death. I ran over 25lbs of boost a jillion times on the highway, trying to beat the thing up, but it never did. I did this with a vastly inferior intercooler (stock top mount) that's not only arguably too small for the job but is also contingent on hood scoop and hood aerodynamics. My post-turbo EGT's (with the probe located about 3" past the v-band) were 1300*F under load and were never higher. Why is that? Why was the motor so cold even though I had things stacked against it that should've sent those EGT's to Mars (truly, EGT's are where the buck stops anyways)? The only conclusion I can come up with is at those loads the intercooler wasn't doing a damn thing and was all alcohol. I've no idea of the actual IAT's because I had the nozzles parked in the same place as the sensor but nonetheless it seemed to work.
B
I'm not denying that an air-to-air intercooler can work. I just don't like the approach. I never have. I don't like the idea of sticking a 2" massive brick of aluminum in front of a radiator and oil cooler that not only drops pressure but also raises temperature of the ram air going to those other heat exchangers. I also don't like the idea of using this massive brick as a heat-sink to pull heat out of compressed air when there may be better methods of doing it even though they may go against the grain of what the normal enthusiast does to modify their car. Air isn't the best heat exchanger. The question I beg in all of this is this: "Can alcohol (or even water) perform the same, if not better, job of doing the same job an air-to-air intercooler does?" I agree with Enzo that we shouldn't all rush out to unbolt our intercoolers (and I'm not suggesting that people do) but I still think this whole thing deserves a legitimate change of thinking and approach.
My rationale behind it still stands: my old hardware setup that shouldn't have worked but for some strange reason did. I'd like folks here to take a closer look at it and, if I may ask, try and appreciate it. I ran a smaller T4 turbo (60mm) that I overspun to death. I ran over 25lbs of boost a jillion times on the highway, trying to beat the thing up, but it never did. I did this with a vastly inferior intercooler (stock top mount) that's not only arguably too small for the job but is also contingent on hood scoop and hood aerodynamics. My post-turbo EGT's (with the probe located about 3" past the v-band) were 1300*F under load and were never higher. Why is that? Why was the motor so cold even though I had things stacked against it that should've sent those EGT's to Mars (truly, EGT's are where the buck stops anyways)? The only conclusion I can come up with is at those loads the intercooler wasn't doing a damn thing and was all alcohol. I've no idea of the actual IAT's because I had the nozzles parked in the same place as the sensor but nonetheless it seemed to work.
B
As far as your old setup goes... there is no question that your AI kept everything is check, and allowed you to make the power you did, all while keeping it reliable. Now, keep you AI... blast away with the alcohol injection as you have, but throw in a proper IC and piping, and you'll be amazed. Your old setup, as well as you may think it performed, was choked, and could produce much more power and performance for you. You can not deny it. YOU try and appreciate that. Do not write off intercoolers because of your old setup...
Pro IC....Pro AI?? USE BOTH!
01-10-09, 12:44 PM
#104
I need to add.
No IC temp or AIT or charge temp can be quoted till you are at the end of 4th gear and near 240kph or so. The diff between 3rd gear and 4th is large... so fully agree with this statement. I had some old logs from 1996 on an Autronic ECU and looked through an IC with sub 60% eff V's one with 80% Ve (larger size and fully ducted) and the difference in temp and power was amazing.
I have spent hours comparing notes with fellow racers last year about the intake temps at the top of 4th gear and I have an intercooler, meth injection and now E85, I can only imagine what they would be without an intercooler!!!
Originally Posted by jdmfantasy
1... Then I would not call it properly designed. Its more than just the cooler... piping size, routing, etc. must be taken into consideration when setting up a "properly designed" IC setup.
2... Ive asked what the car was being built for to better suggest a setup. What are his goals? So far the OP has made 440 rwhp with a very restrictive IC setup. To write off IC's based on his previous setup is foolish to me. Also, to ask whether AI alone will do the job... we need to know what you're going for? The most power? Quick spool? Simply being reliable while making good power??? Let us know and we can better assist you.
Simply arguing the fact that IC's increase lag because he's not using one seems convenient...
3... You're right when a stock top mount is used in his application....its very easy to discredit IC's given his experience. I thought the OP gave this thread the title "which Intercooler?" We've simply been giving him our opinions that yes, an IC should be used. Not a stock top mount being fed trough already restricting piping...
4... I would have to think so. I doubt we'd be making the power we are without one. We haven't tested anything back to back so I really can't say, but we're nowhere near where we want to be power wise, so at this point it makes no difference as everything will change anyway.
Also, what sort of power would you have to make to offset the 20 or so pounds at most an IC set up might add?
Think of it this way... how about one more thing to remove heat from the rotary motor? That has the biggest appeal in my opinion.
I feel as though I'm getting too into this.... My apologies in advance. I simply want to offer the best advice I can given my own personal experience!
2... Ive asked what the car was being built for to better suggest a setup. What are his goals? So far the OP has made 440 rwhp with a very restrictive IC setup. To write off IC's based on his previous setup is foolish to me. Also, to ask whether AI alone will do the job... we need to know what you're going for? The most power? Quick spool? Simply being reliable while making good power??? Let us know and we can better assist you.
Simply arguing the fact that IC's increase lag because he's not using one seems convenient...
3... You're right when a stock top mount is used in his application....its very easy to discredit IC's given his experience. I thought the OP gave this thread the title "which Intercooler?" We've simply been giving him our opinions that yes, an IC should be used. Not a stock top mount being fed trough already restricting piping...
4... I would have to think so. I doubt we'd be making the power we are without one. We haven't tested anything back to back so I really can't say, but we're nowhere near where we want to be power wise, so at this point it makes no difference as everything will change anyway.
Also, what sort of power would you have to make to offset the 20 or so pounds at most an IC set up might add?
Think of it this way... how about one more thing to remove heat from the rotary motor? That has the biggest appeal in my opinion.
I feel as though I'm getting too into this.... My apologies in advance. I simply want to offer the best advice I can given my own personal experience!
Personally i have an intercooler and will continue to have an intercooler with my pre turbo water injection. So I can't post my packaged weight for the meth kit i'm not running RXHEAVEN. I can say that my water injection kit is probably under 10 lbs fully filled, and in my situation having an intercooler is best. But if i was using meth in the amounts as BDC I think no intercooler is a very valid experiment and have a feeling will work quite well. If no one experimented with things like this we would all still be driving 255 hp factory rx7's cooking themselves to pieces.
And to AnthonyNYC (getting tired of direct quoting)the performance gained from every 10 degree drop is closer to 1% gain in HP. Which is nothing to snuff about at all. On a 400 hp rx7 thats 4 hp per 10 degrees. 50 degrees drop is 20 hp. The question is... when using a chemical intercooler will there still be a need for a block of aluminum to reduce the charge temperature?
We all know intercoolers work to remove heat. There is no question about that. And we all should know by now that Aux injection and specifically alcohol injections reduce charge temps even more. The question is how much will chemical intercooling will work on it's own? If it came down to having either a meth injected car without intercooler, or a intercooled car without meth injection. I would chose the meth injected car. The knock suppressing effects of meth would make that choice quite easy. There are many options available though. Which is why i'm water injected with an intercooler.
I'm anxious to see the results of Brian's testing, and i had no idea this would become such a controversial subject. For the record I really have no emotional involvement regarding any of this, as someone has already said this is all for fun. I have no factual evidence of whether his chemical intercooler will work well or not, and I don't think really anyone here does when it comes to this. So all we can really do is theorize about what might happen. There are certain things that are absolutes, and certain things that are unknown. Some people would like to make bold statements that it won't work, or that it will ALWAYS be a certain way. That's just ridiculous and close minded IMO.
01-10-09, 03:21 PM
#105
Stay tuned...
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With the meth we will have to see. I still recommend longer 4th gear pulls as well just because the sensor reacts slowly.
And to AnthonyNYC (getting tired of direct quoting)the performance gained from every 10 degree drop is closer to 1% gain in HP. Which is nothing to snuff about at all. On a 400 hp rx7 thats 4 hp per 10 degrees. 50 degrees drop is 20 hp. .
And to AnthonyNYC (getting tired of direct quoting)the performance gained from every 10 degree drop is closer to 1% gain in HP. Which is nothing to snuff about at all. On a 400 hp rx7 thats 4 hp per 10 degrees. 50 degrees drop is 20 hp. .
Second, you have got to be kidding when you say "nothing to snuff about" We are all talking about reliable HP and 50 is a LOT. I think you got your 1% from google (which is ok) but don't say it's nothing to snuff about
I guess I would fit into the third group of people telling you to use both. I am EXTREMELY aware of the benefits of AI... in so many ways. Yes, there really is something to it.
As far as your old setup goes... there is no question that your AI kept everything is check, and allowed you to make the power you did, all while keeping it reliable. Now, keep you AI... blast away with the alcohol injection as you have, but throw in a proper IC and piping, and you'll be amazed. Your old setup, as well as you may think it performed, was choked, and could produce much more power and performance for you. You can not deny it. YOU try and appreciate that. Do not write off intercoolers because of your old setup...
Pro IC....Pro AI?? USE BOTH!
As far as your old setup goes... there is no question that your AI kept everything is check, and allowed you to make the power you did, all while keeping it reliable. Now, keep you AI... blast away with the alcohol injection as you have, but throw in a proper IC and piping, and you'll be amazed. Your old setup, as well as you may think it performed, was choked, and could produce much more power and performance for you. You can not deny it. YOU try and appreciate that. Do not write off intercoolers because of your old setup...
Pro IC....Pro AI?? USE BOTH!
JDM, your post sums it up perfectly and I agree with you 100%. I am in the same group as you, AI and Intercooler baby!!!!
Let's stop bench racing, let's get some real data or experience and post some results. We can all write long posts and if x is this then y is that but in the end, let's get some dyno numbers or datalogs or quarter mile times, what ever floats your boat. Some say that's how you separate the men from the boys lol, just kidding
But seriously, this is a great discussion and will only get better with real data or experience...Anthony
01-10-09, 07:15 PM
#107
The FD air temp sensor does react slowly, this is quite well known and well discussed in the PFC section. I'm guessing that the stock 2nd gen sensor is very similar to the FD, if not then my bad. Otherwise yes the sensor does react slowly.
2nd I wasn't saying 1% hp per 10 degrees drop was bad at all, quite the opposite actually. Which is why i said "nothing to snuff at" indicating that lower temps is a very very good thing. I have absolutely no qualms with a system that actually does produce significantly more power due to lower intake temps. I'm only pointing out that with such little testing done, how does anyone even know that it will produce lower temps with the intercooler. I mean how many people really have tried no intercooler and large amounts of meth? I agree that this discussion will be better once hard data is obtained, Brain has been good about keeping his findings open so I'm sure more information will be available when he further tests.
2nd I wasn't saying 1% hp per 10 degrees drop was bad at all, quite the opposite actually. Which is why i said "nothing to snuff at" indicating that lower temps is a very very good thing. I have absolutely no qualms with a system that actually does produce significantly more power due to lower intake temps. I'm only pointing out that with such little testing done, how does anyone even know that it will produce lower temps with the intercooler. I mean how many people really have tried no intercooler and large amounts of meth? I agree that this discussion will be better once hard data is obtained, Brain has been good about keeping his findings open so I'm sure more information will be available when he further tests.
01-12-09, 12:32 AM
#110
Stay tuned...
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Would it be possible to do an all out 1st to 4th gear run and record the run. When I do a run in 4th alone and then a run from 1st to 4th, the air temps are much higher. Some say it's the intercooler heat soaking. If that is the case then you without an intercooler, your intake temps should be the same if not lower...
Sorry, I was referring to the GM sensor since I thought BDC upgraded to the GM unit for the haltech. I also have the GM sensor and also one from Enzo that's sealed and won't get destroyed by the methanol.
I must admit you are right and I admire your efforts. Since you are running a Haltech and your air temp sensor is located after the nozzles (meaning the meth injection cools the sensor) what do you air temp correction numbers look like?
Anthony
Anthony
01-12-09, 12:37 AM
#112
Would it be possible to do an all out 1st to 4th gear run and record the run. When I do a run in 4th alone and then a run from 1st to 4th, the air temps are much higher. Some say it's the intercooler heat soaking. If that is the case then you without an intercooler, your intake temps should be the same if not lower...
I expect the temps to be about the same as the 4th only pull, or possibly slightly lower because of the meth being injected in the first 3 gears. Should be a fun experiment.
01-12-09, 05:22 PM
#113
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
Update Jan 12 09
Got a small update today. Ran a few errands today in the red car and had an opportunity to do a bit more work on the air temp/fuel corrections map along with run a bit of boost. The ambient temp today here in DFW was high 60's, about 67-68*F. Cruising air temps were exactly 45*F higher than ambient as has been the case several other times. I noticed something today, however: The air temps measured at the throttle remained close to ambient for about 10 minutes just after starting and driving the vehicle but slowly crept up to that 113-115*F mark. I believe the hot-air pipe is heat-soaking either from a slowly heating up engine bay, discharge air from the radiator fan, or both. I checked with my ceramic coater guy today and figured it's something I could try and get done perhaps next week.
Anyways, I did a few short 4th gear runs down the highway w/ the controller on low boost. Nothing fantastic but I wanted to check and see what the AFR's were doing with the air/temp fuel correction map I was working on. Boost was hanging right around the 12psi mark on average with a bit of fluctuation in both directions. Advance at that boost level was 18*BTDC with a split of 4-5*. The first run I made was done about 10-15min after cruising down city streets and highway driving. No load was put on it so everything was presumably as hot as it'd get in the engine bay. On this first run I ran up to about 5krpm and the air temps went from mid 110's to 135-137*F and plateaued. The second run I performed they plateaued in the 120's and recovered quickly down to 110-115*F with a dip underneath shortly thereafter.
On the third run, the air temps were 113*F. I nailed into the throttle at just prior to 4krpm. Reached 12lbs of boost by 4200-4300rpm about 1.5sec later. Air temps went to 115*F at 4300. I ran this out to about 4800rpm (another 1.5sec) and the air temps actually began to drop to 108*F before I let off. I don't have a BOV welded on the hot-air pipe yet so I can't just nail into it indiscriminately. I'm having to take it easy. But what I found peculiar on this is that the alcohol volume I'm outputting, which isn't a 70/30 ratio at that boost, is easily handling the non-intercooled air temps coming out of the turbo. Granted, it's a larger compressor and isn't alot of boost, but nonetheless it's positive progress. I think it also shows that the two prior (short) runs in boost w/ the alcohol pulled some heat out of the throttle and the hot-air pipe prior to this 3rd run here, hence the lower plateau and tendency for IAT's to drop. Hopefully soon I'll have a BOV welded on where I can then nail into it alot more.
Attached are the three screenshots from the run.
http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/ProjectC...l/Screenshots/
B
Anyways, I did a few short 4th gear runs down the highway w/ the controller on low boost. Nothing fantastic but I wanted to check and see what the AFR's were doing with the air/temp fuel correction map I was working on. Boost was hanging right around the 12psi mark on average with a bit of fluctuation in both directions. Advance at that boost level was 18*BTDC with a split of 4-5*. The first run I made was done about 10-15min after cruising down city streets and highway driving. No load was put on it so everything was presumably as hot as it'd get in the engine bay. On this first run I ran up to about 5krpm and the air temps went from mid 110's to 135-137*F and plateaued. The second run I performed they plateaued in the 120's and recovered quickly down to 110-115*F with a dip underneath shortly thereafter.
On the third run, the air temps were 113*F. I nailed into the throttle at just prior to 4krpm. Reached 12lbs of boost by 4200-4300rpm about 1.5sec later. Air temps went to 115*F at 4300. I ran this out to about 4800rpm (another 1.5sec) and the air temps actually began to drop to 108*F before I let off. I don't have a BOV welded on the hot-air pipe yet so I can't just nail into it indiscriminately. I'm having to take it easy. But what I found peculiar on this is that the alcohol volume I'm outputting, which isn't a 70/30 ratio at that boost, is easily handling the non-intercooled air temps coming out of the turbo. Granted, it's a larger compressor and isn't alot of boost, but nonetheless it's positive progress. I think it also shows that the two prior (short) runs in boost w/ the alcohol pulled some heat out of the throttle and the hot-air pipe prior to this 3rd run here, hence the lower plateau and tendency for IAT's to drop. Hopefully soon I'll have a BOV welded on where I can then nail into it alot more.
Attached are the three screenshots from the run.
http://bdc.cyberosity.com/v/ProjectC...l/Screenshots/
B
01-12-09, 06:03 PM
#114
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
B
01-13-09, 07:30 AM
#116
If I would have seen this thread earlier I would have posted that your results may be better if you protect that hot air pipe with some ceramic coating (inside and out) or/and some exhaust wrap/ thermal wrap. I used to have the old school greedy intercooler and noticed a big difference in temps after doing the above mentioned things.
Good luck man and it's nice to know you're keeping in your tradition of being controversial.
Good luck man and it's nice to know you're keeping in your tradition of being controversial.
Last edited by hondahater; 01-13-09 at 07:33 AM.
01-13-09, 10:18 AM
#117
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
I can understand wanting to doing that to an intercooler outlet pipe, but in this case being that it's a hot-air pipe it makes me wonder if it's really worthwhile or not. It won't take much load out of the turbo for air temps to easily exceed those in the engine bay. I think the only thing that would make it worthwhile is for daily driving type stuff at very low loads. /shrug
B
B
01-13-09, 12:51 PM
#118
nice work Brian. I'D SAY 99* at 22 lbs isnt too bad. Keep at it and it should keep dropping.
I was unable to do a 1-4th gear pull yesterday. In fact, I nearly blew my car and self to pieces... Maybe that's a little dramatic, but it was scary. I am installing some safegaurds in my AI system and a wire melted. The wire happened to be right next to my AI tank!!
I just finished wiring in a switch and LED on the system and went to see if it was working. About 1/16th of a mile from my house, there was a lot of smoke and my electric system started acting strange. I shut the car of in the middle of the road, got out and ran, screaming "NOS!!!!" the entire way.... well, I did get out and move away from the car. After a few seconds I flipped open my AI bin and disconnected the power, then found the wire all melted to hell.
Scared the **** outta me.
I was unable to do a 1-4th gear pull yesterday. In fact, I nearly blew my car and self to pieces... Maybe that's a little dramatic, but it was scary. I am installing some safegaurds in my AI system and a wire melted. The wire happened to be right next to my AI tank!!
I just finished wiring in a switch and LED on the system and went to see if it was working. About 1/16th of a mile from my house, there was a lot of smoke and my electric system started acting strange. I shut the car of in the middle of the road, got out and ran, screaming "NOS!!!!" the entire way.... well, I did get out and move away from the car. After a few seconds I flipped open my AI bin and disconnected the power, then found the wire all melted to hell.
Scared the **** outta me.
01-13-09, 03:53 PM
#120
Stay tuned...
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The most boost the datalog saw was around 13psi and the air temps went from 113-110F when he let off.
The entire pull was about 4 seconds.
Thanks for posting some data guys and glad the car is ok Stylemon.
Anthony
01-13-09, 09:19 PM
#123
BDC Motorsports
Thread Starter
Old Haltech software -- when you see an * next to the number in the manifold category, that's vacuum reading. Only boost is a solid number w/o an *.
B
B
01-14-09, 02:20 AM
#124
Stay tuned...
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Another quick way to tell is by looking at the change in timing advance. (41deg)
Most guys I know running meth injection seem to move their air temp sensors so the meth does not come in contact with it. The few that did not move it have issues replacing a sensor every few months.
Anthony
Most guys I know running meth injection seem to move their air temp sensors so the meth does not come in contact with it. The few that did not move it have issues replacing a sensor every few months.
Anthony
01-14-09, 09:54 AM
#125
I can understand wanting to doing that to an intercooler outlet pipe, but in this case being that it's a hot-air pipe it makes me wonder if it's really worthwhile or not. It won't take much load out of the turbo for air temps to easily exceed those in the engine bay. I think the only thing that would make it worthwhile is for daily driving type stuff at very low loads. /shrug
B
B
I would figure that the heat that came from under the hood of a rotary powered car would heat soak just about anything metal and I would imagine in return would heat up (even more than they already are) the AIT's. Of course you could look at it on the other side and think that the less material you have on the outside the more the heated air would dissipate kind of like a heatsink effect.