HP limit on E85
08-21-12, 10:14 PM
#76
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Wish I had a dollar every time some one said that to me. and every time some one said this or that should not work, I'd be a rich man.
After reading/realizing e70 will run richer then e85 my mind is at ease. Just going to make the motor run richer in turn is safer.
Noe
Looks like I'll be ordering me a test tube today. Thanks for the video.
08-26-12, 09:13 AM
#78
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Received my E85 tester. Looks like the current mix of fuel comes out to E50. Cool tools.
This is some really good fuel. Been having a problem building boost. Was struggleing to get over 28psi. Boost was lazy and still managed to run 10.5 at 138 or so. Got the boost issue worked out last night and hit 38psi a few times at part trottle. AFR went to mid 13s with no motor issues. Good stuff. And on a 3$ spark plug for the win...
Now that the boost is responding like it should, bigger injectors and pump are going in. That trickle down effect is in effect.
What a difference in power from 28 to 38 psi on a S480. Crazy!
This is some really good fuel. Been having a problem building boost. Was struggleing to get over 28psi. Boost was lazy and still managed to run 10.5 at 138 or so. Got the boost issue worked out last night and hit 38psi a few times at part trottle. AFR went to mid 13s with no motor issues. Good stuff. And on a 3$ spark plug for the win...
Now that the boost is responding like it should, bigger injectors and pump are going in. That trickle down effect is in effect.
What a difference in power from 28 to 38 psi on a S480. Crazy!
08-29-12, 08:09 AM
#80
More than doable, I'm making 810 RWHP on 26 pounds of boost on just E85. Running two ID2000's as primaries and four bosch 1680's (2 on the secondary rail, and 2 on the third rail).
Running 3 bosch 044 pumps in tank, each pump supplies its own rail/set of 2 injectors. Pumps are staged. Duty cycle is at 75% right now. Pump base pressure is set to 55psi i think, i'll have to re-check that.
Full bridged 3rd gen and idles at 1600ish RPM's and runs smooth all the way to 10,500 RPM's
Shooting for 1000RWHP on just E85, changing the 4 bosch 1680's to ID 2000's for a total of 6 ID 2000's.
Running 3 bosch 044 pumps in tank, each pump supplies its own rail/set of 2 injectors. Pumps are staged. Duty cycle is at 75% right now. Pump base pressure is set to 55psi i think, i'll have to re-check that.
Full bridged 3rd gen and idles at 1600ish RPM's and runs smooth all the way to 10,500 RPM's
Shooting for 1000RWHP on just E85, changing the 4 bosch 1680's to ID 2000's for a total of 6 ID 2000's.
08-29-12, 08:10 AM
#81
Received my E85 tester. Looks like the current mix of fuel comes out to E50. Cool tools.
This is some really good fuel. Been having a problem building boost. Was struggleing to get over 28psi. Boost was lazy and still managed to run 10.5 at 138 or so. Got the boost issue worked out last night and hit 38psi a few times at part trottle. AFR went to mid 13s with no motor issues. Good stuff. And on a 3$ spark plug for the win...
Now that the boost is responding like it should, bigger injectors and pump are going in. That trickle down effect is in effect. What a difference in power from 28 to 38 psi on a S480. Crazy!
This is some really good fuel. Been having a problem building boost. Was struggleing to get over 28psi. Boost was lazy and still managed to run 10.5 at 138 or so. Got the boost issue worked out last night and hit 38psi a few times at part trottle. AFR went to mid 13s with no motor issues. Good stuff. And on a 3$ spark plug for the win...
Now that the boost is responding like it should, bigger injectors and pump are going in. That trickle down effect is in effect.
What a difference in power from 28 to 38 psi on a S480. Crazy!
08-29-12, 09:09 AM
#82
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Not causing any trouble with the big dogs opinions of these short plugs but here's how I look at this.
This is just my two yen!
12 "right plougs at 30$ = 400$
400$ = 150 cheap plugs.
Is what causes cracking around the spark plug hole is heat. What are our cylinder
temps with E85?
What causes detenation. Bad tuning. These plugs are shorter but there are ways to cool the cylinder to prevent detenation. Less timing more fuel.
Everyone is trying to make the max power and the lowest boost possible. I personally dont understand this. You want more power turn up the boost, run less timing and more fuel. 700hp is 700hp. If I have to do it at 10psi more then the next guy, I do not care. 9.9 et is a 9.9 et period.
I would rather install a new plug then have to rely on a plug that has been clean 5 times. Maybe new the right plugs are better but after 4 or 5 sand blasting, i dont think so. Tuning timing and heat range is so much easier with new plugs. I change the trailing plugs maybe every 20/25 pass. Leading get changed ever 6/9 passes. Even if they look good.
These plugs can be bought in the 7 heat range for daily driving at 3$. vs 7$ for stock 9s.
Here's a story. 3 rotor on the dyno running stock 9s had bad break up at 8psi struggling to make 400hp. Mixed ignite 114 with pump gas and turned up the boost to 15 psi. Made a easy 600hp with no issues. If he could have gaped the stock 9s closer or installed the right racing plugs his issued would have also been resolved.
I use to remove the sealing ring when using these plugs but got lazy and just installed them as is. .020 gap out of the box. My ignition consist of four stock leading igniters and four trailing coils. TurboII stuff.
Here something funny. I DO NOT suggest anyone use these. If you do use them at your own risk! But I will continue to use the short plugs.
Here is a pic of my rotor housing that have over 240 1/4 mile passes. Had to rebuild in June due to over revving the motor to 10600rpms in second gear.
This is just my two yen!
12 "right plougs at 30$ = 400$
400$ = 150 cheap plugs.
Is what causes cracking around the spark plug hole is heat. What are our cylinder
temps with E85?
What causes detenation. Bad tuning. These plugs are shorter but there are ways to cool the cylinder to prevent detenation. Less timing more fuel.
Everyone is trying to make the max power and the lowest boost possible. I personally dont understand this. You want more power turn up the boost, run less timing and more fuel. 700hp is 700hp. If I have to do it at 10psi more then the next guy, I do not care. 9.9 et is a 9.9 et period.
I would rather install a new plug then have to rely on a plug that has been clean 5 times. Maybe new the right plugs are better but after 4 or 5 sand blasting, i dont think so. Tuning timing and heat range is so much easier with new plugs. I change the trailing plugs maybe every 20/25 pass. Leading get changed ever 6/9 passes. Even if they look good.
These plugs can be bought in the 7 heat range for daily driving at 3$. vs 7$ for stock 9s.
Here's a story. 3 rotor on the dyno running stock 9s had bad break up at 8psi struggling to make 400hp. Mixed ignite 114 with pump gas and turned up the boost to 15 psi. Made a easy 600hp with no issues. If he could have gaped the stock 9s closer or installed the right racing plugs his issued would have also been resolved.
I use to remove the sealing ring when using these plugs but got lazy and just installed them as is. .020 gap out of the box. My ignition consist of four stock leading igniters and four trailing coils. TurboII stuff.
Here something funny. I DO NOT suggest anyone use these. If you do use them at your own risk! But I will continue to use the short plugs.
Here is a pic of my rotor housing that have over 240 1/4 mile passes. Had to rebuild in June due to over revving the motor to 10600rpms in second gear.
08-30-12, 11:13 AM
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That statement is essentialy wrong but even if it wasn't, its meaningless parameter.
Pure ethanol, with all cooling effect canceled out, has been measured as 115-116 RON. Even very small amounts of ethanol(E10, E20) proved to enhance antiknock properties of base fuel significantly, 107 RON for E10 and 113 RON for E20.Base fuel was 97 RON gasoline.
Octane gains diminished at 40% of ethanol volume, it can be assumed that with lower octane base fuel, saturation would occur a bit later. Thankfully, increasing of ethanol content increases potential charge cooling effect, which in the case of E85 can be worth of 18 octane numbers.
So theoretically, E85 utilized to its full potential could act as 133-134 RON fuel, but this can happen only in direct injection engine where most of the heat for fuel evaporation comes from charge air, not from intake manifold and hot surfaces
Chemical properties of different fuels and whole combustion phenomena are just too complex to judge fuels just by present octane number measures. As always, it goes down to the application.
Pure ethanol, with all cooling effect canceled out, has been measured as 115-116 RON. Even very small amounts of ethanol(E10, E20) proved to enhance antiknock properties of base fuel significantly, 107 RON for E10 and 113 RON for E20.Base fuel was 97 RON gasoline.
Octane gains diminished at 40% of ethanol volume, it can be assumed that with lower octane base fuel, saturation would occur a bit later. Thankfully, increasing of ethanol content increases potential charge cooling effect, which in the case of E85 can be worth of 18 octane numbers.
So theoretically, E85 utilized to its full potential could act as 133-134 RON fuel, but this can happen only in direct injection engine where most of the heat for fuel evaporation comes from charge air, not from intake manifold and hot surfaces
Chemical properties of different fuels and whole combustion phenomena are just too complex to judge fuels just by present octane number measures. As always, it goes down to the application.
08-30-12, 12:13 PM
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That statement is essentialy wrong but even if it wasn't, its meaningless parameter.
Pure ethanol, with all cooling effect canceled out, has been measured as 115-116 RON. Even very small amounts of ethanol(E10, E20) proved to enhance antiknock properties of base fuel significantly, 107 RON for E10 and 113 RON for E20.Base fuel was 97 RON gasoline.
Octane gains diminished at 40% of ethanol volume, it can be assumed that with lower octane base fuel, saturation would occur a bit later. Thankfully, increasing of ethanol content increases potential charge cooling effect, which in the case of E85 can be worth of 18 octane numbers.
So theoretically, E85 utilized to its full potential could act as 133-134 RON fuel, but this can happen only in direct injection engine where most of the heat for fuel evaporation comes from charge air, not from intake manifold and hot surfaces
Chemical properties of different fuels and whole combustion phenomena are just too complex to judge fuels just by present octane number measures. As always, it goes down to the application.
Pure ethanol, with all cooling effect canceled out, has been measured as 115-116 RON. Even very small amounts of ethanol(E10, E20) proved to enhance antiknock properties of base fuel significantly, 107 RON for E10 and 113 RON for E20.Base fuel was 97 RON gasoline.
Octane gains diminished at 40% of ethanol volume, it can be assumed that with lower octane base fuel, saturation would occur a bit later. Thankfully, increasing of ethanol content increases potential charge cooling effect, which in the case of E85 can be worth of 18 octane numbers.
So theoretically, E85 utilized to its full potential could act as 133-134 RON fuel, but this can happen only in direct injection engine where most of the heat for fuel evaporation comes from charge air, not from intake manifold and hot surfaces
Chemical properties of different fuels and whole combustion phenomena are just too complex to judge fuels just by present octane number measures. As always, it goes down to the application.
perfectly written. on my speed 3, you really saw the effects with the DI. even just two gallons from logs we saw KR vanquish.
08-30-12, 03:34 PM
#92
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I tried non resistor plugs with my electromotive and they gave me nothing but trouble. But with the Haltech everything seems good.
You may hear a buzzing noise from your radio.
Your local parts shore should stock these plugs. Advance auto sales them for 3$. Buy two and install in trailing and see if you get any electrical noise or problems.
Have a buddy with a FD P1000 and LS coils running these plugs. No issues
You may hear a buzzing noise from your radio.
Your local parts shore should stock these plugs. Advance auto sales them for 3$. Buy two and install in trailing and see if you get any electrical noise or problems.
Have a buddy with a FD P1000 and LS coils running these plugs. No issues
09-05-12, 11:08 AM
#94
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Not causing any trouble with the big dogs opinions of these short plugs but here's how I look at this.
This is just my two yen!
12 "right plougs at 30$ = 400$
400$ = 150 cheap plugs.
Is what causes cracking around the spark plug hole is heat. What are our cylinder
temps with E85?
What causes detenation. Bad tuning. These plugs are shorter but there are ways to cool the cylinder to prevent detenation. Less timing more fuel.
Everyone is trying to make the max power and the lowest boost possible. I personally dont understand this. You want more power turn up the boost, run less timing and more fuel. 700hp is 700hp. If I have to do it at 10psi more then the next guy, I do not care. 9.9 et is a 9.9 et period.
I would rather install a new plug then have to rely on a plug that has been clean 5 times. Maybe new the right plugs are better but after 4 or 5 sand blasting, i dont think so. Tuning timing and heat range is so much easier with new plugs. I change the trailing plugs maybe every 20/25 pass. Leading get changed ever 6/9 passes. Even if they look good.
These plugs can be bought in the 7 heat range for daily driving at 3$. vs 7$ for stock 9s.
Here's a story. 3 rotor on the dyno running stock 9s had bad break up at 8psi struggling to make 400hp. Mixed ignite 114 with pump gas and turned up the boost to 15 psi. Made a easy 600hp with no issues. If he could have gaped the stock 9s closer or installed the right racing plugs his issued would have also been resolved.
I use to remove the sealing ring when using these plugs but got lazy and just installed them as is. .020 gap out of the box. My ignition consist of four stock leading igniters and four trailing coils. TurboII stuff.
Here something funny. I DO NOT suggest anyone use these. If you do use them at your own risk! But I will continue to use the short plugs.
Here is a pic of my rotor housing that have over 240 1/4 mile passes. Had to rebuild in June due to over revving the motor to 10600rpms in second gear.
This is just my two yen!
12 "right plougs at 30$ = 400$
400$ = 150 cheap plugs.
Is what causes cracking around the spark plug hole is heat. What are our cylinder
temps with E85?
What causes detenation. Bad tuning. These plugs are shorter but there are ways to cool the cylinder to prevent detenation. Less timing more fuel.
Everyone is trying to make the max power and the lowest boost possible. I personally dont understand this. You want more power turn up the boost, run less timing and more fuel. 700hp is 700hp. If I have to do it at 10psi more then the next guy, I do not care. 9.9 et is a 9.9 et period.
I would rather install a new plug then have to rely on a plug that has been clean 5 times. Maybe new the right plugs are better but after 4 or 5 sand blasting, i dont think so. Tuning timing and heat range is so much easier with new plugs. I change the trailing plugs maybe every 20/25 pass. Leading get changed ever 6/9 passes. Even if they look good.
These plugs can be bought in the 7 heat range for daily driving at 3$. vs 7$ for stock 9s.
Here's a story. 3 rotor on the dyno running stock 9s had bad break up at 8psi struggling to make 400hp. Mixed ignite 114 with pump gas and turned up the boost to 15 psi. Made a easy 600hp with no issues. If he could have gaped the stock 9s closer or installed the right racing plugs his issued would have also been resolved.
I use to remove the sealing ring when using these plugs but got lazy and just installed them as is. .020 gap out of the box. My ignition consist of four stock leading igniters and four trailing coils. TurboII stuff.
Here something funny. I DO NOT suggest anyone use these. If you do use them at your own risk! But I will continue to use the short plugs.
Here is a pic of my rotor housing that have over 240 1/4 mile passes. Had to rebuild in June due to over revving the motor to 10600rpms in second gear.
For what its worth, when I was pushing 703 RWHP at 22psi I was running stock 9's for all 4 plugs. We had zero issues with this set up and I would go on average about 1200 miles before changing them out. The car ran perfect on all stock 9's from idle (1800 rpm's) all the way to redline (10,500 rpm's).
Now that we are hitting 810 RWHP at 26psi, I run 11.5's all around and zero issues with these. We are getting about 800 miles on average with these plugs before we change them out. By changing them out i mean i take them out, sand blast them and put them back in.
We are very conservative on timing and fuel is more than adequate on E85, run it a little richer than most people but I have over 5000 miles on this set up which gets beat daily and there have been zero issues even in this 100+ degree heat in DFW.
09-06-12, 01:01 PM
#96
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Lol, it's funny you asked b/c I was going to post that I am running an M&W ignition system with Honda CBR coils (coil on plug). This may also be why I can get away with my plug life/use. This is also the reason we stop at 10,500 rpm's, the M&W isn't rated for more than 10,500. Well at least not safely.
09-06-12, 01:21 PM
#97
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Here are the pics of the plugs and the reason why we reuse them by cleaning them. We have to have them put on a lathe to machine them down inorder to allow for the coil to fit on top of the plug.
As you may or may not know, motor cycle plugs and even some car plugs allow you to unscrew the tops off (the area i had milled down), unfortunatly rotary race plugs do not come with this option.
We have had zero issues doing this, no broken plugs, break up, etc. We already have over 6000 miles using plugs like this.
Ignition system is a M&W with Honda CBR 600 coils and a Motec M84 controlling it all. Alternator is a Powerbastards 220AMP runing dual Optima yellow top batteries.
Picture of the mounting/support bracket on a junk housing:
As you may or may not know, motor cycle plugs and even some car plugs allow you to unscrew the tops off (the area i had milled down), unfortunatly rotary race plugs do not come with this option.
We have had zero issues doing this, no broken plugs, break up, etc. We already have over 6000 miles using plugs like this.
Ignition system is a M&W with Honda CBR 600 coils and a Motec M84 controlling it all. Alternator is a Powerbastards 220AMP runing dual Optima yellow top batteries.
Picture of the mounting/support bracket on a junk housing: