ronbros3

i was at a track in fl. moroso, back about 5 yrs, Porto rican drag car, 13B turbo ,size of a 18wheeler part, runnin straight methonol.

had 12 1680 injectors , looked like a porcupine with all stickin out everywhere, put down a 7sec pass , so somthings working.

blak777

wish i had e85 down here

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Make yer own! Pretty easy to do and if you need alcy, you can drink it!

edgars95rx7

iTrader: (5)

OMG you guys are my Heroes im not very good with fuel systems and i would like to run my stock rx7 on E85. What do i need? can you guys help me? im currently running pfc pink box but i see that its garbage from what everyone says. my rx7 caught on fire last monday and im going to rebuild and i want to upgrade all the fuel system and probably buy a different ecu. do you have any diagrams, part list, and anything else that i would need to run E85 on my 7.

sleeper7

http://www.weldonracing.com/product/...Fuel_Pump.html

Just a little info on this pump. Not saying this is a good idea or recommend this pump for E85 but another rx7 racer has been running E85 on this pump for almost two years now with no issues. He does premix 1.5/2 oz of Klutz per gallon of E85.

I was running this pump for 3/4 months on E85 with a paper filter. Paper filter showed no signs of deterioration. I ran 3oz of premix per gallon.

This is a bad *** pump. Quite and does not pull allot of amps.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

E85 is actually only about 102 octane in most instances due to it's varying alcohol content, mileage may vary. some sites claim it as high as 110RON, you will never see it that high(even if it was 100% pure ethanol), it is best to assume the lower limit to be true.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Look at ID2000's all the way around.

afawaterpolo

iTrader: (7)

More than doable, I'm making 810 RWHP on 26 pounds of boost on just E85. Running two ID2000's as primaries and four bosch 1680's (2 on the secondary rail, and 2 on the third rail).

Running 3 bosch 044 pumps in tank, each pump supplies its own rail/set of 2 injectors. Pumps are staged. Duty cycle is at 75% right now. Pump base pressure is set to 55psi i think, i'll have to re-check that.

Full bridged 3rd gen and idles at 1600ish RPM's and runs smooth all the way to 10,500 RPM's

Shooting for 1000RWHP on just E85, changing the 4 bosch 1680's to ID 2000's for a total of 6 ID 2000's.

sleeper7

Back on the E85 stuff. With the Weldon pump. Well it E60. one gallon of C16 to 2.5 gallons of E85. Reason for mixing is to see what kind of MS at 9000rpms. And it looks like it will take more E85. At 25psi and 9000rpms the MS were at just over 5ms. So with two 1000cc primary and 4 1800cc secondary injectors, it looks like it's good for 35psi with the current mix of fuel. Car went 11.0 at 134mph. That was with a bog off the line were the rpms dropped to 3500 in first and only built 15psi at 9000rpms. Second, third and forth gear were good. Thinking it has a 10.6 with a good launch at this boost level.

Pre mix is 8/10 oz to five gallons of fuel.
13 deg with a 10 split at 25psi
AFR was a solid 11.5
EGT reached low 1700 in 4th gear
LBS with me in the car is 2500
stock TurboII trans
Base fuel pressure is 50psi

flaco

iTrader: (7)

you still can squeeze more power out of it .

salva

iTrader: (6)

Just an FYI for reference; 35psi is not out of the question with E85. I helped a friend tune his FD a couple years ago and he has not had a noticable incident of detonation.

He is running a combination of a walbro intank and a Bosh 044's external with a dedicated -8 braided line(probably not the best fuel pump setup, but has worked thus far).
4 1600cc injectors on secondary rail, and a single 1600 on greddy elbow for a total of 8000cc's
When he drives the car he drives it hard and has only broken the rear plate once by the tension bolt area, so not due to detonation, I belive it had to do to a bad dowel spec/drilling.

He laid down more than 700rwhp an an old ITS 80mm turbo, he now runs a BWs472, at the same boost level, and I can tell you it is deffinatelly quicker(these turbos spool faster so power band is wider).

sleeper7

35psi max was in reference to my setup. Pump and injectors based on MS. I have no more money to upgrade anything. Maybe upgrade the two primary 1000cc to 1600cc since I already have them. But ya, E85 is some good stuff.

Forgot to add.
5$ manual boost controller
4" down pipe with 3" full exhaust.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Have any of you seen any detonation using E85?
I have run pretty lean with it and it didn't even hint of detonation!
I need to get a Jay-Pro TB so I can add another injector. Running out of fuel around 30 PSI.
I'm starting to think this stuff won't detonate!

salva

iTrader: (6)

The problem with E85 is that the percentage of Ethanol change in some parts of the country when the seasons change. We have been lucky where I live as it seems to stay at the 80plus percentage. Your best bet to avoid this is to get an alchohol content tester to be sure you are always at the same mix.

sleeper7

Detonation? good question. On other forums they say it will but at what point no one says.

sleeper7

I wonder about this. Maybe this stuff has such a big tuning window that maybe the change in % will not hurt to much. Reading some people run this in the low 12afr and if I keep mine in the mid 11s, then when winter comes I'll be ok.

salva

iTrader: (6)

I just realized that you are in Texas, there isn't much change in alky percentage there(or at least shouldn't be). This usually applies to the northern states, so you should be good, especially since you run it a little rich.

Liborek

Not many people realize what will happen. Mixture actualy will get richer, as there is lower ethanol content but higher gasoline content, which has higher heating value in same volume/mass.

As far as alcohol fuels goes, they generaly don't detonate, but they have tendency to preignite, especialy in presence of some catalyst, platinum, etc.

Arghx shared some information from research paper where true octane number of ethanol fuels was examined. What is very important, they clearly separated chemical anti-knock properties from charge cooling effect.
Link

Tests indicated that as far as chemical properties goes, ethanol fuel basically reaches its maximum anti-knock properties at E50 mixture, then the gain essentially disappears. Where base fuel has 97RON, E50 and higher has about 115RON.

Charge cooling effect can have huge impact on allowable power level, but its application dependent. Large ethanol content (E85->) will work best in applications with high inlet temperatures, at low temperatures, it won't support any more power than E50, at least according to these very thorough tests.

Researchers also found that port fuel injection of ethanol fuel realizes only about 10% of theoretical cooling effect, which probably means that power levels that people are reaching with E85 on rotaries are possible just from chemical antiknock properties. If someone would build combination, that would minimize runner wetting and maximize evaporation in intake air, power levels allowable with ethanol fuel would probably exceed hardware limits of engine

So there really isn't HP limit of E85, just limit of combination.

sleeper7

I got that backwards, thanks. Winter E70 will run richer the summer E85 because there is more gas in E70. So I should be tuning for 12afr on E85 then when winter E70 comes my afr will be in the high 11s. Did I get that correct?

So with E70 there is 30% junk fuel mixed in. Is it more **** to detonation then E85?
Also been reading that some are saying E85 should not be mixed with leaded fuel. Any truth to that. I am thinking as long as the motor is tuned on what ever fuel it is, it should be safe. to a certain limit of course.



Thanks.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

I used to test it everytime I filled up, but it was always dead on 85% here in Idaho.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I have no idea about leaded fuel + ethanol. You're just going off rumor there, whatever it's worth.

As far as E70 vs E85 for knock suppression... chemically speaking, they are about the same. You may realize greater charge cooling effect with E85, but it's hard to quantify that exactly.

salva

iTrader: (6)

I agree that betweeen E70 and 85, the difference is minimal.

sleeper7

Ran 10.6 at 139mph last night at 27/28 psi Bogged again on the launch, rpms droped to 4000. Took 1st gear to 10500 and had a hard time shifting in to 2nd. Still have a bit of tuning to get a consistant afr in every gear. And install a smaller jet in my clutch flow control to try and keep my rpms up after the launch. Then hope for low 10s at this boost level.
Injector duty cycle was 85%

Also, running the 5/8 Honda spark plugs. the 19mm reach ones. Great plugs for 2$ea.

RXTASY57

iTrader: (2)

Nice work Sleeper7! Looks like you can do 9's with the right run.
On a side note, if you use push lock type hose with push lock fittings, check them often!
E85 tends to dry this stuff out and it will expand and not form a seal. One of my lines was leaking last night and I replaced it immediately.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

sleeper7, have you considered a heavier flywheel?