RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

My first post here in the AEM forum. To make a really long story short, I had an AEM Series 1 installed in my FC by a supposedly competent mechanic and tuner, but he abandoned the project so I've been left to pick up the pieces (I got screwed out of a ton of time and money). I basically repossed the car after he abandoned it, so it was left "in pieces". If interested, you can read some more details here.

Basically, I'm wondering if any of you guys might be able to help me troubleshoot this and get the car running, or can point me in the right direction. Is it true that AEM is longer supporting S1's in general?

Here are the details I (think) I know about the current setup. Unfortunately I don't know nearly as much about it as I'd like; I gave up some control on the project and am paying the price for that now:

- I *think* it's S1 from a DSM, that was adapted to work with the FC. This was his recommendation for the best setup (not my choice).
- The car will start (with some help) and idle, but that's about it.
- There are some wires that aren't connected to anything in the engine bay and near the ECU inside the cabin. They might not be need to be, but I wanted to make it clear that I'm not sure if it only needs tuning or if there are some hardware issues that need to be worked out before we work on the software setup.
- It has a "custom" wiring harness built for the FC.
- It's using the stock TPS, but I think all the other sensors are AEM.
- I have a "custom" CAS that was built as a hybrid between the AEM EPM and the FC CAS housing. My previous mechanic put a lot of work into it. He did say there was something "unusual" about it with how you set timing; and that it's a bit unique/different in the world of rotaries.
- I have what I believe to be Tahoe coils in there, but they might be RX-8 coils. Old mechanic switched them a couple times so I'm not 100% sure what he ended up with.
- I have a full mod list in my signature; the only thing that isn't correct is the coils (again, unsure).

I can get you guys more specifics and details on it if you think you might be able to help. I got a serial adapter today in the mail so I can hook up the AEM to my laptop to start seeing what's going on inside of it.

What do you think? Can anyone help a poor guy out?

I did see the sticky with the PDF, I will read through that here in the next couple of days.

Thank you!

scotty305

iTrader: (2)

Wow, that sounds like quite the science project. After you read through that PDF, I'd advise getting connected to the software, save a copy of the ECU's calibration, and then try to see if the wideband AFR signal is connected to the ECU's O2#1 input so you can datalog AFR. There's a common setup problem in the AEMPro software, the AFR will display in some funky low units even though it says it is configured for AFR gasoline. You'll need to change the O2 units from AFR Gasoline to something else (like Lambda), then hit apply, then change back to AFR Gasoline again. Figure out how to record a PC log and post it here. It has been a few years since I've used a Series1 EMS, but you'll want to log O2 #1, Fuel Inj #01 Pulse, Fuel Inj #03 pulse, Engine Load, Throttle, Timing Errors, and Sync Errors

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Thanks a lot! I'm gonna try and get this all for you tomorrow. Wish me luck!

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Alright, I finally got around to doing this (been crazy busy). I'm attaching the log file, hopefully it works. All I did was start it, gave it enough gas to run for a bit, then let it idle, revving it up occasionally.

I followed the "Pre-Start Check" in section 2h in the PDF. The "Start Sync'd" parameter did go to ON after a second or so.

Note I did not check the timing or anything. I did try what it said to test the coils 1 by 1 by disabling them. I'm not sure what to make of what I found, they did seem to come ON, but sporadically, and not as often or regularly as I would have expected. I also did *not* try "manually triggering each injector".

Couple things I noticed right off the bat:

1.) I don't seem to be getting an O2 sensor signal. It just stayed at 10.07.
2.) The "Ignition Timing" value also stayed exactly the same (14.99), but maybe this isn't the right field to log?
3.) Also appears my temp gauges aren't working either? Coolant temp didn't move at all, but air temp looks like it *might* have gone up slightly, from about 65 to 73. The ambient air temperature today is somewhere in the low 60s, so maybe it is right. But coolant temp definitely hasn't budged, just reads 176.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Anyone?

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

1) can you snap a picture of the actual ecu . ( so we know the wiring )


2)have you tested all the sensors. AEM EMS is awesome and you can basically run anything but have to make sure you are selecting the correct ones. ( go into main menu live and see if they are giving correct values )

3) is timming set, this is the biggest thing you need to do. ( lock and test timming ) . you dont need to use aem epm hybrid setup, the stock cas would of worked. I think best option if you have money left over is buying FFE 36-1 hall effect sensor.

4) can you attach a copy of your map .

snap pictures of:

map sensor, air temp sensor, tps, cas/aem epm setup , coils .

also if you could trace every input / output to the ecu, that would help.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Sure, I'll try and do all of this tomorrow afternoon.

No, I haven't tested all of them. How do I know if the values they're giving are correct?

I'm not sure if the timing is set, but my hunch is probably not. One of the last things I heard from my old mechanic was that it needed to be set but not sure if he ever did it or not. Do you know if I can find a writeup anywhere that describes how to set the timing with the AEM? I do remember my mechanic saying something about setting the timing being a little odd because of the way the EPM is setup, like it has twice as many teeth or something as the stock CAS. I also unfortunately don't have a lot of experience setting timing.

As far as the EMP goes, I was told that the stock CAS wouldn't work or would be unreliable. As I said, the ECU is for a DSM, and supposedly it couldn't receive whatever signal the stock FC CAS was sending. I'd prefer not to buy another sensor; we talked about getting a hall effect sensor but he seemed pretty convinced that the AEM EPM would work just as well. It's actually a pretty nice setup.

Which map? Fuel map? Ignition map? I'm still orienting myself to the AEM software so any specifics are very appreciated.

I'm assuming you mean pictures of the hardware, right?

Trace, meaning which wire goes to which sensor and which component?

Thanks again!

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

It seems there is a lot of custom stuff you will have to learn to get the car reliable.

Once you post your ecu code ( will be on the side, if DSM it will say something like 6300 . I currently have a S1 honda box in my FC and swapping to S2 box )


Once you go online ( connect to your ecu through the aem pro software ) , you can save your map ( this map contains all the data, fuel, ignition, etc ) .

Is there an AEM tuner in your area, might be also an option to bring it to them to retune if you dont feel confortable.

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

the difference in the aem epm , is it is based on a 24 tooth configuration , the FC is based on a 12 tooth cas.

So as long as you have selected aem epm in the sensor>calibratio

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate your help RX7(613). Please be patient with me and also be as specific and descriptive as possible, since I'm an AEM noob.

One weird thing that I think just started; I went out to run through your list, and I noticed that as soon as I put the key all the way forward to ignition (but not starting), the fuel pump was constantly on and pumping, even when not cranking. I ended up shutting off the injectors one by one because it looked like they were all firing, and I started to smell gas. I'm pretty sure it wasn't doing that the other day when I made those logs I posted.

Attached.

I'm not really sure how to do this. I have no idea what the 'correct' values are, nor do I know what the "main menu live" is.

One thing I will say is that I noticed that it looks like the MAP sensor might not be correct, it appeared to be maxed out, like it was getting a ton of air flow or something. The TPS definitely seems to be reading correctly though.

I still haven't done this, any write-ups anywhere I can look at to do this?

I'm not really sure what you mean by "map", so I'm going to assume you mean the calibration file. It's attached.

Attached.

Do you mean tracing the wires and seeing where they go in the engine bay? So looking at the wiring harness where it connects to the AEM and then matching it to the corresponding colored wire in the engine bay?

It looks like it's an AEM 1300, for a 90-94 1G Eclipse/Talon/Laser (pic attached).

As above, I'm not sure if you meant the calibration file. If so, it's attached. If not, I don't know what you mean.

Unfortunately not really. The only guy there was totally flaked out on me and left me stranded. Once it's drivable there's a shop I might be able to take it to just for a tune, but getting everything all wired up correctly and getting it on a decent drivable tune would have to come first.

So it looks like it was set for the RX-7, not the AEM EPM. As I said, it is modified though so maybe it is supposed to be set for the RX7? I can try the EPM and see if it makes any difference...

Posting the rest of the pics in my next post, since can only attach 5 at a time.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

And the rest of the pics and attachments...

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

seems like they tried to do a great job, but with a lot of custom stuff. ( makes it harder )

ill look over it tonight, one thing i noticed right away is that your crank/cas sensor is set to FD which is 12+1 tooth, and the aem epm uses a 24 tooth. you might have to take it off and see if they grounded 12 teeth off ( wich i hope they didnt ) .

I attached the manual for your ecu.

https://www.jegs.com/InstallationIns...17-30-1300.pdf

so happens im using the same ecu , but a series 2 for my FC ( im using the 6300, changing from the 1030 ) .

do you have the aem pro software tuning guide.

the sync timming is on page 71 , but first you will have to verify your cas settings.

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

in case you dont have the software

Series 2, EMS-4 & Series 1 Software | AEM

you want aem pro , and also update the wizard to get the aem pro setup incase you dont have it .

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

Also just looked at the aem epm schematics , its optical 24 -1 one, so I dont see a way it works with the RX7 crank settings.

first thing is to :


set crank sensor to aem epm, then set timming . ( figure out what is leading coil 1 and leading coil 2 , )

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1433277208

ondabirdhouse

iTrader: (26)

I'm no AEM expert but looking at some of the photos there are a few areas of concern. The green and black ground wires need to be upgraded to a thicker gauge wire to ensure proper grounding of the system. I spent months tracking down what I thought was a bad wiring harness which turned out to be some poorly placed grounds. The two wires that attach to the black powder coated strut brace concern me due to the painted white chassis and powder coat will not allow for a good ground. I would consider putting a good grounding end post or other style terminal and mounting them to a clean bolt/nut. Also, i'm not too familiar with FC's but is that an open vac port on top of the throttle body?....Cap it or plug it.

As rx7(613) mentioned aem needs the proper timing sync to run. This is important with FD's as the ignition is electronic. Whats important to note is that you need to set the factory default ignition timing in the ECU and then run through the procedure above. Here is a post that helped me set mine properly.
The AEM ecu has a lot of DIY wizards that will automatically set the proper parameters for things like tps range, oem vs after market sensors selection, maf or map sensors. I know its a DSM ecu but as long as the ecu firmware is up to date you should have all those optional sensor selections and wizards to work with.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate the help, guys!

Yep. That's right. He was pretty close, but never finished t he job.

I just found something really interesting... A picture that he sent me (attached). It appears that he extended one of the slots to be long, opposite the other long slot. I remember him talking to me about this, but this was almost a year and a half ago, so I don't remember too many specifics. So maybe by him doing this its effectively a 12-tooth?

No, does that come with the AEM Pro software? I'm going to try and download that now to my laptop.

Thank you!

Thanks for the tip! You're referring to the two wires in the MAP picture that are between the strut bar and the firewall?

If you're talking about the big nipple at the top edge of the picture, no, that's not an open vac port. I think originally it was a coolant line.

Thanks

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

interesting about the aem epm referencing, he added another home signal, but not sure if that will work.

the FD signal wants to see 12 teeth through the full rotation and not half rotation. the 24 tooth would of worked just fine, going to need to think about that one.

Maybe someone can chime in. getting the signal to work is the most vital part.



I personally would contact aem to see if you can purchase a new 24 tooth wheel, shouldn't be expensive.

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

some info on epm

******* The EPM outputs a Hall effect signal. Please make sure your EMS is configured to except a Hall Effect cam/crank signal. Make sure you have 12Volts at the EPM during Cranking.
Watch the parameter "A tooth" which should count from 0-23 repeatedly if you rotate it. For initial setup watch the parameter "Cam Pickup" manually turn the EPM until it registers " ON ." With the Engine at TDC go ahead and drop the EPM in. If this is done correctly you will be aprox +/- 75deg from TDC. Go ahead and sync the timing from there. Configure--> ECU setup --> Set Ignition.


I believe the jumpers need to be changed on the board to work, ( easy enough) but wonder if it was done.

best bet is to test the signal manually as suggested above.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, working on it tonight. Will post again later with what I come up with.

I do remember my mechanic saying it was a pain in the *** to set the timing and to drop the EPM in the right position. I'll try what you suggested and let you know what I come up with.

Thanks!

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

So before I can do anything with the timing, I need to figure out why my fuel pump is constantly on and my injectors are constantly firing with just the key forward (not attempting to start).

The AEM is saying that it's is seeing a load of 87.46 kPa while the car is just sitting here not running or anything.

Any ideas?

Also, I made sure I had all software and its all up to date, so we're good there.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Well, I have an update on this. I got down and looked closely at the ECU wiring and started moving things around (just looking). Now the fuel pump is not on constantly, but I can't connect to the AEM anymore. One thing I noticed is the wiring down there is a rat's nest. I counted probably at least 4 wires, possibly more, that are not connected and are just exposed and hanging out. Plus I counted an additional 4 wires that are not connected to anything in the engine bay itself.

Sigh, I'm pretty discouraged. I'm giving up for the night. Thanks guys.

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

from the pics, it looks like they tried to make the DSM mitsu ecu plug n play, EVen though the ECU you have uses the same plugs as the RX7, they are all pinned differently

My opinion is to start from scratch, its discouraging, but you will know its done right.

All the special setups ive seen in the past ( let it be, microtech, haltech, wolf, aem ) Always fail some time, either at idle, cruise, boost, because all the loose ends weren't tied up.

The most important being trigger signal. SPECIALLY rotaries. You can get a car to run quite good even having bad trigger settings, but once you start boosting boom happens easily ( I say this from past experience )


Im using the same ecu as you now ( just a Series 2 ) . But im making a brand new harness.

ruddyrid

iTrader: (8)

The gear on the OEM S4/S5 CAS is geared to run 1/2 speed. Hence why your AEM EPM disc has a second elongated slot [Cam Sync] opposing the original one.

If you were to break down the original EPM signal, this is what you would get, for the Crank-Angle Degree, Crank-Angle Tooth, Sync Tooth respectively, when running it at half speed on a S4/S5



|0--------------------------------360--------------------------------720| -Crank Degrees
|01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12| -Crank Tooth
|---------------------------------------------------------01------------| -Sync Tooth


What you want for the EMS to be able to run your car and work off of the original 12&1 signal is:


|0--------------------------------360--------------------------------720| -Crank Degrees
|01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12-01-02-03-04-05-06-07-08-09-10-11-12| -Crank Tooth
|---------------------01----------------------------------01------------| -Sync Tooth


The reason why you need a signal like this is to make the AEM calibration for the RX-7 to work with a "Factory Style" pattern.

RX7(613)

iTrader: (9)

awesome explanation ruddyrid, thanks. so there is hope.


OP, your problem with injectors and pump is probably related to a battery (constant) 12v wire shorting where the ignition 12v should be.

RyoFC3S

iTrader: (1)

Thanks! I sort of understand. But is there anything I need to do with the calibration file or EPM to support this?