newtgomez

I finally opened up my new PNP Select for series 6 RX7 ecu from Adaptronics and am going to take the task on of street tuning it until the point to where it is driveable! My car has stock twins that I actually plan on running at 10psi until I put aside the funds for an EFR 8374 kit. This will be my first time tuning on an ecu and it seems like I picked the most DIY friendly one on the market! Eventually this will be on a dyno but I want to see what it's like to tinker with something myself before throwing in the towel. I have become a member of HPA and have looked over several tuning articles on FDs specifically. My car is currently torn down at the moment so I figured now would be a good time to have the map looked over before installing this into my car. I have made some slight changes to cater to my needs of the twins but I believe the ecu came with the standard series 6 base map.

My car has a full 3 inch exhaust (Will most likely change due to boost control needs), efini y pipe, hks hot air intakes, and the stock SMIC. All emissions are deleted. I'm mostly going for reliability and the stock ecu just doesn't drive well enough with these mods.

Here's the map and all help is welcomed!

Also, this is called starting map due to it being the first map I start out with just for personal referencing in case I make a stupid change and want to review it later.

newtgomez

So I plugged in my ecu after I got my car warmed up on the stock ecu and it took a little bit of throttle manipulation to start the car but it fired up relatively quickly and the idle wasn't so bad.

I modified the fuel table and changed some idle settings to get it to idle smoothly.

I then tried turning on the AC and messed with that slightly and I got it to idle around 1000rpms but then it randomly drops to roughly 7-800rpms and then spikes up to 2k and bounces up and down for a couple seconds and then smooths out again back at around 1000rpms. I looked back at my data logs and realized that the air temp under the fuel tab is trimming a lot of fuel back so this will be changed next time I go mess with the car.

I took the car for a very light and brief drive and it actually did really well on the base map. I had to pull over a few times to add fuel under the cruise cells because it was running around the 15s and I want it back in the 14.7 range where my MAP prediction table is set at. I also got up to the transition section where it crosses from vacuum to positive boost and it hit the 12AFR perfectly.

I then parked it and shut it off and let it sit for about a minute before seeing what cranking it over while warm would do. It fires right up like the stock ecu does but it has an issue where it goes all the way up to 2k rpms and slowly decays back down to the set idle speed. That probably takes about 5ish seconds.

I will probably mess with it more this weekend when I have time.

Unfortunately, I forgot to log the start up so I only have one where it idles with the AC on and one where I went for the short drive.

Here is my current map!

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Hey Dillon!

Its awesome you are going to take on tuning your own car. I started on an Adaptronic PnP on my sequential twins. Its ALOT of fun being able to work on your own tune and extremely beneficial especially with a FD.

I used this thread by James Paventi as a guide when I started (along with a ton of help from James who is a kickass awesome guy). As I progressed I'd find myself looking back over his thread reading and understanding parts and issues which I had originally blown right over.

https://www.rx7club.com/adaptronic-e...e-map-1033267/

It really is an extremely detailed tuning thread with a ton of good info. I would suggest you spend some time reading through it if you haven't already. Inspired by the thread James made I went on to do a similar one with a single turbo setup.

https://www.rx7club.com/adaptronic-e...ingle-1088618/

There is ALOT of good info between the two. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions regarding the ECU or tuning with it. Remember, measuring 10 times and cutting once is the key.

-Skeese

newtgomez

Well I have had two tuning sessions straight from cold start at this point and have made some changes between the two so I'll try to remember exactly what I did.

-Initial cold start up works flawlessly just like the stock ecu so I am probably going to leave the cranking tables alone until they cause an issue.
-I modified some cold enrichment as they weren't rich enough. It's frustrating tuning this part of it because it seems like the car warms up too fast even with the heat on.
-Base idle position has been reduced to make the car not idle at 3k on initial start up (Scary stuff imo)
-Post crank effort reduced which made hot starts shoot up to about 1200rpm instead of 2000rpm after the change
-Idle has been configured down to 850rpm and works considerably well
-AC effort was lowered down to 10 from 34 and it still has issues where it bogs dangerously low but still runs when the AC is turned on with the switch. Cycling idle is perfectly okay when the AC is on.
-The car dies when you go in to neutral after driving when the headlights are on so I'm thinking that either my fuel cells are possibly off or I need to add a slight enrichment percentage to the "Enrich 1000rpm/sec" section.
-Changed fueling in certain cruise cells and it seems that they need to be richened up but it's really difficult when on your own and you don't have a dyno...

I'm going to post both maps just in case anyone wants to look at the changes between them.

The only reason I haven't messed with the boosting areas is because my car overboosts and it will be fixed with a small resonator or muffler before I mess with these higher up areas.

Also, those two progression threads are very helpful especially when it comes to the transient throttle area of tuning. Had I not read about those, I would probably still trying to figure out many issues.

Here are the maps!

12 is my second map and 13 is my third

newtgomez

New updates for this map:
-Trailing split at idle changed to 20 which really helped with cold firing
-Base idle valve position changed to 60 across the board because the thermowax rod takes care of that
-Slightly changed some coolant enrichments during cold running to get it around the 11-12 area. Stock ecu ran at 11AFR iirc
-Datalogged some boosting areas and got up to 4.5k rpms during logging and the AFRs were pretty spot on so only some slight changes were made there
-I believe that async gain needs to be added slightly because there is a minor hesitation at light throttle. Might play around with it later.

Might go do one more datalogging session as it's my weekend and I really don't want to do a full brake job today.

newtgomez

This file is after some hard runs kept around 5psi. I was able to go to a point where my map was excessively rich which is where I wanted to get to. So I reduced a lot of fueling past the 5k area because my logs showed like a 9.8 AFR and I believe it's very possible that it was even richer than that because it was like the car hit a wall so I backed off.

-Added more fuel to boost areas
-Reduced some timing in certain areas for safety
-Changed my AFR table around a little bit because the ecu was showing fuel trim when I didn't want it


The car showed about 111F for the water temp when I attempted to start the car. It didn't want to start without clearing the fuel with the gas pedal at WOT so my next session will most likely include reducing some fuel on the cranking tables. This would be way easier on a piston engine as I am afraid to flood the motor.

It's been a very long time (About a year) since I have heard my car actually go above 4k and hit the transition and it sounds so delicious! I think my neighbors are not liking the noise but personally, I believe the rotary is the best sounding engine type of all time!

Side note: Some punk pulled a U turn without looking and almost totaled my car so that was nerve wracking and enough to convince me to call it quits on tuning for the day.

Cheers!

RGHTBrainDesign

Excellent work Dillion! This is exactly the kind of work this forum needed.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

yeaahhh I 100% agree.

I'm not where I can open the tune file right now but wanted to ask, are you currently in open or closed loop fueling?

Skeese

newtgomez

I am using closed loop fueling under vacuum all the way to 2000 rpms and it seems to work out really well. Power also comes back on at 1700 (I might try to change this but it works pretty well for now)

The biggest issue that I'm trying to figure out is how to stop my car from dying after pushing in the clutch from say 2k rpms and above with the headlights on.

From what I have gathered from other posts, it seems that it's almost impossible to stop this dying without a working speed sensor or a neutral/clutch switch setup. My dashpot doesn't work and the lightweight flywheel doesn't help the problem either.

Since my car is an auto to manual conversion, I don't believe that my neutral switch is wired correctly and I also don't have either of the two clutch switches...

So trying to combat these issues, I tried playing around with the dashpot tab and it sometimes works as it should but other times it dies so I don't think that's the only thing I should be playing with. The other area where I think might help is the "% Enrichment @ 1000RPM/Sec". Now I'm thinking this might help with my problem but also have a double edged sword effect causing the ecu to pump a lot of extra fuel that I don't want on acceleration.

In the end, I think i'm just going to have to bite the bullet and figure out how to do the neutral switch and clutch switch wiring...or have my eventual tuner deal with it But where is the fun in that?! The whole reason I took on this quest was to do something that no one else in the area could really do. Well at least with my girlfriend dumping me I will have more time for playing with this car

newtgomez

So I went to go start the car today and I think the plugs are slowly fouling which is fine because I have a spare set to mess with from my motor pull a couple months ago.
From a cold start, it started but sputtered and died which it hasn't done before but after the first time it died, it fired right back up and went through its normal start up procedure. One thing I can't quite figure out is that the car sounds like it's misfiring (pops through the exhaust) just when it's warming up and I can't figure out if it's an ignition issue or a fueling issue. My AFRs stay close to 11 and gradually gets to it's normal target idle AFR around 160F when the thermowax rod closes it's throttle plate.

I tried messing around with different settings to deal with my dying issue when the headlights are on. It appears as if it gets down to 500rpm and it has like a 50 percent chance of dying on me. It occasionally dies on me when I don't have my headlights on too but it's still driveable. After my drive, I added more fueling to lower vacuum areas because the motor seems to shoot closer to no vacuum when I push in the clutch and it acts like it's going to die. I will see if this helps on my next drive and tune session. I believe that my speed sensors don't work and the fact that I don't have a clutch switch or working neutral switch inhibits my ability to deal with this issue properly.

I changed up some fuel cells in the boost area because they were a little too rich. The car feels like it's too rich around the transition area but I didn't get a log of that today. I also marked a few more cells as tuned.

The sound of the second turbo activating is so addicting and puts a giant grin on my face knowing I can confidently boost higher up in the rpm range.

New map is down below.

RGHTBrainDesign

Add timing at 600 rpm, more at 500 rpm, more at 400 rpm, etc.

So my lowest dip (let's say 400 RPM) is +4 degrees. 500 rpm is +3 degrees, 600 rpm is +2 degrees all over your idle range (700-900 rpm should have identical timing so it's not moving around on you. Make sure it's also pretty far from MBT.

700-900 RPM = 10 Degrees (an example)
Then that Means the following values:
600 RPM = 12 Degrees
500 RPM = 13 Degrees
400 RPM = 14 Degrees

The added timing will keep the motor from dying out.

Hope that helps.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I don't have wari on my work computer so I can't look at the file until later but...

I would suggest adding fuel in those high vacuum regions that the car sees when you first pull it out gear at such a low rpm under load. While adding timing may work and help, I think it is more of fine tuning tool, and if your car is completely dying and stalling out you aren't in a *fine tuning* state. It needs air/fuel help.

The engine can run way way way rich without choking out, however if it goes slightly lean in a condition like that it can die. I think simply adding some more fuel down in that "dip" region will help kick it back to idle where it should be and then if necessary you can look into timing.

If you go to my tuning thread and look at the final maps you will see that the idle position in the VE fuel table is really a hole, with fuel all around it especially on the high vacuum and lower rpm sides of idle which was there to combat the same problem you are having.

Keep it up!

Skeese

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

Any update here Newt?

I finally have another functional tuning PC and some spare time to dedicate to helping out! Let me know!

newtgomez

Unfortunately, it has not stopped raining since I had my last tuning session! It's been an excessively wet winter here in Oregon! The last time the weather was good enough was when my best friend from Warshington came down about two weekends ago...and we kind of pissed the whole weekend away throwing a house party and chasing girls at the hot springs lololololol.

I'm hoping the weather gets better soon because I'm itching to drive this car to a meet or at least take it around town! This wouldn't be such a long process if my laptop lasted longer than half of an hour!

newtgomez

So yesterday was the first nice day since the last time I posted a tune file so I figured to use the time after work to mess with the tune some more before going to a car meet in my integra. I won't be able to post a tune file until I get home tonight but I have nothing to do on my 2 hour ride to Vancouver!

I had to skip the datalogging of the start up due to having my laptop at my house which allowed me to get some good data of the actual driving part of it.

Off the top of my head I changed these things based on my logs:
-Decreased excess fuel in the end 1500rpm range in boost because it was way too rich
-Decreased some fueling under 7psi because it was hitting low to mid 10AFR which the car doesn't like
-Added a lot of fuel and a little bit of timing to the area around idle to help out with the dying upon neutral problem. (The help is much appreciated guys!)
-Changed MAP prediction table almost all around because the real world data was nowhere near the prediction table. I noticed that I needed a lot more vacuum below 15 percent throttle and a little bit more boost above 15 percent throttle. I am hoping this helps with my hesitation at lower throttle percentages.
-Checked the "Extra throttle sensitive" box
-Changed my total MAP range back down to 14psi because the new Eugene update changed it to 18psi.


Notes: I still need to change out my plugs because they still fire okay but you can feel almost a pulsing feeling when you are under boost like it's firing but not actually combusting all the way causing it to feel like it's making torque and then making less torque just like an oscillation. That's my theory anyways. Even though I backed off my boost area timing from the original base map, I don't feel comfortable trying to advance it without being on a dyno.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

What exactly do yo mean by total map range?

newtgomez

What a busy weekend!

Here's the new map with the above revisions.

By total map range, I mean the y-axis on the fueling and ignition maps. I feel like there's no sense in having extra cells I'm not going to use with the twins. I probably should have been a little more clear on that.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I would keep at least one row above whatever your max boost level is and either scale the values for those cells based of the target boost level you are running in the row below or load those cells up with fuel.

If you overboost for any reason beyond whatever the maximum in the actual VE/ignition table then it will only apply the value from the last cell it was in. For example if you are running 14 PSI and have the table scaled to 14 PSI max and you overshoot the spool and hit 15-16 PSI OR if the boost fluctuates at all due to temperature, altitude, fuel varience or anything really then you will be above the 14 PSI mark and only seeing the 14 PSI fuel value at that given rpm point. If you have a value beyond that and even just estimate the fuel that goes into those cells it will still be better than the for-sure lean condition you will incur if you are go above the max map with only that lesser amount of fuel.

You always have to have margin because no system will run spot on, all the time, without any variance. That is the purpose of closed loop operation, to allow the ECU to compensate off the base map to make up for these variances, however this is only as fast or accurate as the base fuel value and stability of the entire functional system. You still have to carry some margin. And you have to remember that no matter how well built one of these motors is, once you are running boost it only takes one good failure event to trash it. Margin is the key to rotary longevity.

Skeese

newtgomez

That's very understandable and I truly appreciate the feedback! I only plan on running 10psi for final boost numbers because I feel satisfied with what the FD can do in stock form. As soon as I get paid for selling my Datsun or I get some extra cash, I will be reducing part of my exhaust system diameter to get my boost under control. I have my fuel cut set at 12psi so hopefully the car will never see 14psi or over! I'm itching to drive the car again but the weather has decided that two days of sunshine was too much so I'm back to waiting on the rain to pass again. I think I'll re-consider the change to the Y-axis with that in mind.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I would also advise against a fuel cut and using the ignition instead for all power cuts. Its much much safer to keep the fuel flowing and cut the ignition than risk having a lean condition due to a half cycle or residual fuel getting into the chamber after/during the fuel cut. Thing happen fast at 8000 rpms and when you cut fuel, there is still fuel in the LIM between the injectors and the chamber there therefor the ECU can't, in my opinion cut fuel quick enough to ensure that it will truly kill the cycle.

Ignition on the other hand, can do that. Given the nature of the rotary its just a safer method especially when its the click of a button to choose.

Are you having issues with controlling the boost? There are ways around that without having to change your whole exhaust.

Skeese

newtgomez

Ever since I got my twins to work properly, they have been overboosting/creeping. I do have a full 3 inch turbo back exhaust on the stock boost control system. I went through the same problem with my integra where the internal wastegate couldn't handle low boost with a massive exhaust. I already have ported wastegates so I'm pretty much SOL as far as my knowledge goes. The easiest solution in my eyes is to have a muffler shop put in a smaller resonator in the system. Not to mention, my exhaust set up doesn't line up 100 percent and has a slight exhaust leak after the mid pipe.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

You should get the exhaust leak fixed for sure, I agree. And you are right a full 3" is probably too much for the stock wastegate. Are you using the oem boost control solenoid or a mac valve? Have you been using the duty output in the adaptronic to control it? If you could post some pull longs I could take a look and some of it we may could tune out.

Also...if you are set on keeping the twins, here's some food for thought. Turbosmart IWG-75 internal wastegate actuator on the twins. Combine this guy with a 4 port mac valve and you could super fine tune your sequential boost curve and transition even on a 10-8-10 pattern down to a fine science. Who knows if that 23 year old actuator is fully opening/closing.



Anyways let me know about the boost control method

Skeese

newtgomez

I am still on the stock boost control system but the only problem is that I haven't exactly given the car enough throttle to see if my ecu does anything. The transitioning seems smooth at 7psi which is to be expected. I took the car out yesterday to experiment if it could drive around normally and the tune is good enough to drive around at night which makes me pretty happy. I ended up on a long straight away out in the country yesterday that was actually long enough to take the car to redline. I held the car around 7psi the best I could in third gear and was able to watch my speedhut tachometer shift lights actually work! It was an exciting feeling finally getting to the rev limiter in this car after 1.5 years! The logs show that I was only as far as 50% throttle!

I want to get a mac valve someday for when I go with an 8374 EFR kit so I don't want to spend too much on the twins aside from getting the car to run right.

With all of that said, I dropped my car off today to get the exhaust leak fixed, flanges changed so I can use common gaskets from any auto parts store, and a resonator put in that is reduced in diameter so boost will be under control. I would have put a solid pipe in there, but I want to autocross this car at least once so a little decibel reduction doesn't hurt!

newtgomez

I drove the car around and did some datalogging. The car boost spiked so I have to be careful and figure out how to combat that. I'm thinking opening the wastegate on lesser throttle will help. The datalogs were at 50 percent throttle for the opening and I have adjusted them down to 20 percent throttle hoping that will help.

I changed more of the MAP prediction table and lowered some more cells in various places. The car now has a rich-lean hunt at idle so that's kind of aggravating having to deal with that again. I confirmed it by locking the base timing and it settles and then starts to fluctuate after a few seconds. I believe this is happening because of the addition of fuel around the idle cell from my stoplight dying fiasco. One problem after the other lol.

I am going to post a boosting log through Eugene and my new map with the adjustments.

Skeese

iTrader: (11)

I wasn't able to look over the fuel map or logs, but I did run through the file. Keep in mind I do use wari. Its supposed to be a front end interface, but who knows what is different. From what I noticed...

Target AFR map is extremely rich in boost even for pump gas. For 10 PSI at a bare minimum tune to 11.3 all the way across. No reason to have it in the 10’s.

You still need to set the maximum MAP (for load axis range) setting to be 18 PSI and match your map, otherwise the load proportional across the rest of the tune will be skewed.

If you are using the OEM boost control solenoid, you will see 15 PSI if you give it 100% throttle. The wastegate values in the table are 100% DC starting at 1500 PSI all the way up as they come in the base map. I’ve suggested to adaptronic that it is unwise to provide a base map containing wastegate values that will net way more boost than the ‘stock’ car is supposed to see. In my opinion, a base map should contain 0% wastegate across the output range, or at least a number that would cause the car to hit oem boost levels.

On my twins I found that at WOT ~60% DC up to transition and then ~66% on the secondary would get me the 12-10-12 boost pattern.

Also to be noted, you have the “hot temperature” setting at 32 degrees F this should be much higher. I’m assuming it hasn’t been affecting the tune since the cold temperature is higher, but you probably the hot temp setting to be in there correctly as it is general safety feature.

Just little things really, but all part of it all coming together.

Skeese