When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Ok So I was hoping someone could take a look at my log file for this and maybe tell me any issues they see. Do you see any issues with my injector duty cycle? Also I would think I am pretty rich over the board according to this. This is after I had someone tune it as well. It runs well I just think it has more potential. And want to learn some myself. I also just wired in the AEM wideband as analog. I did change this to closed loop though as well. If you have some pointers I would be glad to listen. Thanks. I did tune with the RTEK some and it seemed pretty straight forward I thought. I just want to get an opinion on this before I start messing with it to much.
Can you post a detailed list of the entire setup of your car?
Without knowing what exactly the ECU is driving when it comes to fuel, ignition, turbos, motor specs, sensors, etc... it is difficult to determine whether the tune file is set up correctly beyond whether it is running in an acceptable AFR.
That above being said, I did review the log and tune file.
First you should go and change the "Maximum MAP" to 18 PSI as that is what your map is scaled for. It is currently 15. This setting affects the scaling of the tables outside of the main fuel and ignition tables, like Target AFR and spark split.
It is safe to say that you are running very rich. The chart below shows the log you posted loaded into MLV with AFR mapped against RPM and Load.
From what it looks like to me, you are targeting around 15 PSI worth of boost and you are extremely rich across the entire map, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as a starting point. That being said, you are going to want to run the ECU in open loop mode until you can get the fuel map tuned to be closer to the target AFR.
The closed loop fueling only works well when the map itself is relatively close to the engine's actual need. When the ECU is having to make large corrections, since it corrects off of the map map's value, it has to guesstimate the fuel needed from a long way off and is prone to overshoot or undershoot the value.
The chart below shows the target AFR from your chart mapped the actual AFR from the log where a positive value indicates you are rich from the target and a negative value indicates lean. For simplicity's sake if your target is 11.0 in a given cell, and you were running a 9.0 the value shown here would be 2.0, meaning you at rich and need to remove fuel.
Given how rich you are, I would remove a good bit of fuel in the entire boost range (0-18 PSI), probably 5-8% and then re-log. When you make the next log, make it much longer and have it cover multiple pulls across the map and boost region. Until you get to where the map is generally close to the target it is much easier and more accurate to modify the fueling map using averaged data from a large log than data from an individual pull.
I already know who tuned your car. He does the same to absolutely everyone. I spied his trail in the tune, but since you hadn't said anything about it being tuned I just figured I was thinking into it too far, but nope...its him.
Why are you on the 1080? Seems a big overkill for a 2 rotor with 1 turbo...and what tuning software are you using with it?
As for the Maximum map setting, changing it to match the map scale of the VE map won't change your boost level, only the values in the waste gate table with raise/lower the boost level. The Maximum Map values just scales the other tables through out the tune file to match the main VE/ignition maps. The value being differently isn't what's making your car drive like poop, it just isn't helping and isn't the right way.
I would highly recommend getting MLV. I know the new Eugene software has something similar built in, but call me old fashion if you will, I live MLV. If you do go the MLV route you'll have to register it for $20 or something, but its worth it to me.
Gota say that MLV looks bloody helpful!
Can it accept haltech log's?
Yeah it can read any .csv log, or a number of other formats. Haltech now has a built in log viewing program for both the ECU Manager and Elite Software, so you may want to check into those first as they are free. I don't know how they work really as have had MLV for so long I've just been glued to it. My thought is, don't fix what isn't broken. You can download MLV here:
You can only view 30 seconds or something like that on the free version, and will need to pay the $20-$30 registration fee unlock the full program. It isn't a renewal fee its a one time deal. I've had it for 3-4 years on 5-6 different laptops from the same subscription. Excellent way to spend $20/$30 bucks.
Still waiting on the OP to let me know about the ECU being a 1080.
Well if its not a 1080 maybe a 1280. I am not sure how i can check to be honest. I downloaded megalogviewer but didnt seem to figure it out the free version. Maybe there is no way to do what you did of course. I will download this one just to see if its different. I have no problem paying the fee if I can figure it out. I plan to do some tuning tomorrow and hopefully get er done mostly. Will see lmao
Well if its not a 1080 maybe a 1280. I am not sure how i can check to be honest. I downloaded megalogviewer but didnt seem to figure it out the free version. Maybe there is no way to do what you did of course. I will download this one just to see if its different. I have no problem paying the fee if I can figure it out. I plan to do some tuning tomorrow and hopefully get er done mostly. Will see lmao
Hey sorry, for whatever reason when you said 1080 I associated it with the 1280.
No worries. Send me your email and I'll send you a document I made that walks you through how to use MLV and set it all up to do what I did above.
I made 5 runs today. It seems to be coming along. I made a change since this last run. I just did not get another log. I also noticed I was still in closed loop which I changed and adjusted idle some afterwards which is in ecu file.
Biggest issue I see is I am getting some knock at higher RPMS. Any idea what I need to do to correct this? This is the transient throttle table I take it. I am gonna try looking at that now some. Also I did not mess with the waste gate either. I kinda tried to look at it, but did not get anywhere.
Also I am not positive where to change the PSI on this thing either. Since you told me that the 1 area was just for map size or whatever. Is this changed in Eugene or WARI?
I am no means a professional, but I'm pretty sure that there is no reason to be running in the 9AFR range. From what I understand, knock can be triggered by many things such as timing being too advanced, your AFR being too lean under certain conditions, or something as simple as something vibrating at the right frequency. I also understand that there is knock which is non-audible that your knock sensor may or may not pick up and then there is audible knock which is bad for any motor. You basically have to make a logical decision whether it's something the engine is doing internally, or something the sensor is picking up externally and then go from there.
The scale is adjustable in Eugene by going to the "Tuning-Fuel" tab and then clicking on the "Tuning Mode" button. It should let you change your MAP scaling.
Okay, so I just looked at the tune file in WARI and I have a few concerns and questions. Once again, I am an amateur so take it with a grain of salt.
1. The target AFR table looks as if it's based off of what I imagine a piston table would look like. It's aiming for 12AFR at 10psi and 11.3AFR at 18psi. The targets might want to be a little richer.
2. You said your injectors are 725/1000 while the file says 690/990. I assume those are the actual values?
3. Depending on what the dyno read, there is a possibility that your timing is excessive and could be backed off a bit. This all depends on many factors though.
4. What exactly are you trying to improve by changing the tune?
5. MAP scaling is changed under the "Tuning Modes" tab in WARI I believe.
1. I am not positive about this 1. Skeese asked me to change the psi to 18 for the table. I am only aiming at 15psi since I heard that is maxing out the BNR.
2. Yes my injectors do say that. The tuner put it there and I don't know any better. I guess this would prevent them from maxing out. I guess that lets you not have to worry about it?
3. I have not dynoed the car since all this yet.
4. The reason I started looking at my tune was my AFR's were reading rich on my guage. I figured I might as well get the performance I have paid for in this car as well.
5. Maybe I did change the wrong spot and raised the PSI here I will look around in it some more. I will change the scale to read psi as well so I can see what I am hitting. I do not think I am hitting over 15 though. I left it at the at kpa thinking it might be easier to make adjustments with some of the toold I was using since they were set for that and I did not see a area to change it right off.
Lastly I am not sure on anything with with timing to much as far as adjustments. Also yeah I see where the map shows some low knock across the board, but what I was really noticing was the knock when I get to 6k RPM's.
1. I am not positive about this 1. Skeese asked me to change the psi to 18 for the table. I am only aiming at 15psi since I heard that is maxing out the BNR.
This is correct. the range of the tune should be scaled beyond the exact boost level you are running. If you are running 15 PSI and its cold out and you over-boost to 16, and you only have your map scaled to 15 the ECU will just use the values from the same closed value from 15 PSI. So there is no reason to not scale both your VE fuel map and all the supporting tables to a range slightly larger than your actual boost level.
2. Yes my injectors do say that. The tuner put it there and I don't know any better. I guess this would prevent them from maxing out. I guess that lets you not have to worry about it?
With VE tuning, you plug in the injector dead times, and base fuel pressure and it auto calculates the actual flow of the injector based on those figures. The values for ID injectors are built into the software. For instance if you go to the injector dead time setting in the corrections tab and go to set secondary, choose ID2000 and 300 kPa (43.5 PSI base fuel pressure) click select preset and ok. Then go back to the tuning methods tab and look at the injector sizes in the secondary field. 2137. That is what an ID2000 flows at 43.5 PSI taking into account its actual injector dead time as specified by ID.
3. I have not dynoed the car since all this yet.
I looked at it and didn't think it to be excessive. I'll take another look but I don't remember thinking it was too advanced so long as it is set properly.
4. The reason I started looking at my tune was my AFR's were reading rich on my guage. I figured I might as well get the performance I have paid for in this car as well.
The tune runs rich as ****. AFR's in the 8's and 9's? Unless it is somehow logging lambda into the AFR readout in the logs it is stupid rich. I'm honestly surprised your plugs aren't fouled and it wants to consistently start.
5. Maybe I did change the wrong spot and raised the PSI here I will look around in it some more. I will change the scale to read psi as well so I can see what I am hitting. I do not think I am hitting over 15 though. I left it at the at kpa thinking it might be easier to make adjustments with some of the toold I was using since they were set for that and I did not see a area to change it right off.
See comment one above. Changing the maximum map just scales the other tables throughout the tune to the maximum map of the tune.
Lastly I am not sure on anything with with timing to much as far as adjustments. Also yeah I see where the map shows some low knock across the board, but what I was really noticing was the knock when I get to 6k RPM's.
Let me look into this. Knock is just read as noise in the ECU and is relative to the threshold set by YOU so it could be no big deal, but as 6000 rpms is peak torque and where you are likely to knock and blow it is worth looking into.
So after doing all that tuning. The car was running very lean. For some reason the adaptronic is not showing the wideband AFR correctly. My guage seems to be right, but not what it is showing up in adaptronic in a lot lower. So I will have to mess with it some more.
I am using the AEM UEGO and I have it connected to ping 2E for the analog connection. It is just showing 3 or more AFR richer then my guage. I heard the ground could throw it off a little but not this much. I need to check where I grounded, but I doubt it would be off that much. So very confused about it.
2E, Grn / Blu
Airflow Signal
Ext 0-5V Input
Not used by the Adaptronic for tuning, therefore can be used as an external 0-5V input
is the gauge grounded to sensor ground as well (not saying this is a good idea)? Perhaps you are getting a different ground reference? Or is there a difference in the calibration between what the gauge thinks is 14.7, and what the ecu thinks is 14.7?
So I took a look at it and a bit more. There is a setting in input on adaptronic for AEM UEGO 0-5v on spare this is what I was selecting. Which I would think that would be right. Of course I had it on narrowband after I realized it was way off so the car would run better. So I decided to select UEGO 0-5V = 10:1 - 20:1 and goes on to say other things I cannot read in the window cause it gets cut off. Anyways when I select that option my AFR reading is on .3 off about. It bounces a little so I am not able to tell exactly, but from watching for a few minutes this is what I am guessing. So I think I stumbled on to something. Then of course when I was messing with the idle it would respond right I popped the hood to find that the idle control sensor has came unplugged again. So this time I zip tied it on and hopefully that will be the end of that issue. I also seen 3 other settings for AEM in there as well. If anyone has more input on this let me know, but seems to be reading close where its at. Also the ground on the wideband I am not sure of still. I saw it tied in to another set of wires and just did not look any further since it is about right. I cant remember where I grounded it right off. I am pretty sure I followed instructions and went to chassis unless I went with a power ground instead. I decided to do another log and go for a fairly easy 15 minute ride to get some input.
So of course I am learning a lot about this still. I did finally find the setting to have the car do he rapid and slow converge on the fuel cells. This was after reading one of Seth's posts and seeing some things he did and looking for that as well. I took the car for a nice ride and it seemed to work wonders. I did some pulls and riding the next day and made changes. I guess I am doing something wrong a little though. So I look at the whole map and adjusted each cell. What I noticed after doing this a few times was my fuel is very uneven and hilly. So i tried to go through the entire map and smooth it out manually which took some time. I have since took it on a few drives with the slow converge option on the fuel tune. So I guess I have to figure out how to look at the log and make changes so it is smooth. I did notice though when I was doing it before that the log was getting a lot better and closer to where it should be but the fuel map was uneven. The car seems very smooth and the AFR's look to be pretty even when driving fairly easy. I am guessing I cannot really look at the map as a whole I have to break it down in cycles when I am getting on it and adjust accordingly to that. Sorry If I am making no sense. And thanks to everyone that has contributed.
So of course I am learning a lot about this still. I did finally find the setting to have the car do he rapid and slow converge on the fuel cells. This was after reading one of Seth's posts and seeing some things he did and looking for that as well. I took the car for a nice ride and it seemed to work wonders. I did some pulls and riding the next day and made changes. I guess I am doing something wrong a little though. So I look at the whole map and adjusted each cell. What I noticed after doing this a few times was my fuel is very uneven and hilly. So i tried to go through the entire map and smooth it out manually which took some time. I have since took it on a few drives with the slow converge option on the fuel tune. So I guess I have to figure out how to look at the log and make changes so it is smooth. I did notice though when I was doing it before that the log was getting a lot better and closer to where it should be but the fuel map was uneven. The car seems very smooth and the AFR's look to be pretty even when driving fairly easy. I am guessing I cannot really look at the map as a whole I have to break it down in cycles when I am getting on it and adjust accordingly to that. Sorry If I am making no sense. And thanks to everyone that has contributed.
It takes a good bit of time to really smooth out the map such that it reflects the engine's actual fuel needs. What seems sporadic at first will with iterations start taking shape. During this "initial" tuning period I use MLV as shown in my earlier post where I match the load and RPM cells to those in the tune file and then tune based on a large volume of averaged data.
You will ultimately get to the point where you are looking at gauge data and putting more stock into the individual pull data, but for the sake of roughly tuning the base VE fuel map you can use MLV and tune off the averages towards an AFR-Target AFR differential map of 0.
Note when you do this...you want to log data such that there aren't any additional fuel trims based on coolant, warmup, or air temp fuel trim tables being applied or it can skew your "averaged" data. Some of the transient throttle stuff will cause fuel spikes that may skew the averaged map, but it should be for such a short duration you should still be able to tune a fuel map pretty close.
Plus, you can't really tune transient throttle until the map itself is relatively close. If you look at the final maps in my thread, those all run within +/- .2 AFR from target across the entire map and were tuned using the MLV average data.
03-02-17, 05:51 PM
Adpatronic Log ECU and log file
