WARNING!!! Counterfeit "Sparco" Seat failure
11-15-10, 03:30 PM
#1
WARNING!!! Counterfeit "Sparco" Seat failure
I thought it prudent to post a recent experience of mine.
In an effort to make my car more track worthy yet still remain streetable I explored installation of aftermarket seats. Installing aftermarket seats in an FD is a real test in fitment as many of you are aware. The space is simply too small for many seats. However much to my pleasure (at the time!) a matched pair of near new seats were available from a respectable forum member and friend of mine. They were advertised as Sparco "Road" seats. They were mounted on modified OEM rails that looked to be quite professionally done...not some backyard hack job.
So into my car they went:
http://www.reganrotaryracing.com/sparcoseats.htm
I had them in the car for about a year before taking the car to the track at VIR last august. Perhaps a couple of hundred miles and one trip to Hang out at Gordon Monsons Carlisi summer gathering. In essence not many miles.
Now to set the stage I'm not a small guy - about 200lbs 5'8" so the seats are snug but I prefer it that way. Sparco advertises a 1000lb load test/per anchor. And my FD scoots along pretty well with 400+rwhp on 18x10 hoosiers. So harnesses and roll bar are also fitted.
The incident occurs on about the third session when hard braking for turn one when the seat mounts fail and I almost hit my face on the steering. I am held in place by the shoulder harnesses to the roll bar. Very scary. I drive back to the paddock and examine the seat. The seat raisl are still anchored to the floor but the seat mounting posts have literally pulled right out of the bottom of the seat. All the welds at each post have failed. Close examination of the mounting posts indicate extremely porous welds and only a few spot weld "blobs" of metal holding the posts in place. It's not surprising they failed. See images below.
Fast forward a few months and I'm discussing the failure with the reps at Sparco. The conclusion we reach is that the seats are counterfeit. They were NOT seats manufactured by Sparco. And also not what I expected when I bought them. Upon close examination by the Sparco rep the fabric and seat frame do not correspond with a specific Sparco model nor does the lap belt openings or the black wear buffers at the shoulders. So just a warning to be sure that your name brand items are truly the real deal or else your safety may be at risk.
With suitable repair they would be very nice for a show car but for a real used track car ahh...not really.
FWIW,
Crispy
In an effort to make my car more track worthy yet still remain streetable I explored installation of aftermarket seats. Installing aftermarket seats in an FD is a real test in fitment as many of you are aware. The space is simply too small for many seats. However much to my pleasure (at the time!) a matched pair of near new seats were available from a respectable forum member and friend of mine. They were advertised as Sparco "Road" seats. They were mounted on modified OEM rails that looked to be quite professionally done...not some backyard hack job.
So into my car they went:
http://www.reganrotaryracing.com/sparcoseats.htm
I had them in the car for about a year before taking the car to the track at VIR last august. Perhaps a couple of hundred miles and one trip to Hang out at Gordon Monsons Carlisi summer gathering. In essence not many miles.
Now to set the stage I'm not a small guy - about 200lbs 5'8" so the seats are snug but I prefer it that way. Sparco advertises a 1000lb load test/per anchor. And my FD scoots along pretty well with 400+rwhp on 18x10 hoosiers. So harnesses and roll bar are also fitted.
The incident occurs on about the third session when hard braking for turn one when the seat mounts fail and I almost hit my face on the steering. I am held in place by the shoulder harnesses to the roll bar. Very scary. I drive back to the paddock and examine the seat. The seat raisl are still anchored to the floor but the seat mounting posts have literally pulled right out of the bottom of the seat. All the welds at each post have failed. Close examination of the mounting posts indicate extremely porous welds and only a few spot weld "blobs" of metal holding the posts in place. It's not surprising they failed. See images below.
Fast forward a few months and I'm discussing the failure with the reps at Sparco. The conclusion we reach is that the seats are counterfeit. They were NOT seats manufactured by Sparco. And also not what I expected when I bought them. Upon close examination by the Sparco rep the fabric and seat frame do not correspond with a specific Sparco model nor does the lap belt openings or the black wear buffers at the shoulders. So just a warning to be sure that your name brand items are truly the real deal or else your safety may be at risk.
With suitable repair they would be very nice for a show car but for a real used track car ahh...not really.
FWIW,
Crispy
11-15-10, 05:14 PM
#6
Damn. Glad you're ok. The people counterfeiting need to realize that they're dealing with peoples lives here. Not worth making a quick buck over. Hopefully Sparco posts an advisory regarding this to help people identify counterfeit seats vs genuine sparco seats. Did you contact the store that sold these to you?
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11-15-10, 05:16 PM
#8
Damn. Glad you're ok. The people counterfeiting need to realize that they're dealing with peoples lives here. Not worth making a quick buck over. Hopefully Sparco posts an advisory regarding this to help people identify counterfeit seats vs genuine sparco seats. Did you contact the store that sold these to you?
Yes counterfeit stuff like this is REALLY scary.
Regards,
Crispy
11-15-10, 06:49 PM
#11
DRIVE THE ROTARY SPORTS
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is the bucket metal or fiberglass? Got any pics of the mounting points they ripped out of? Scary stuff. If those blobs were set into fiberglass, that's definitely the wrong way to do an insert!
11-15-10, 06:50 PM
#12
Where has my $ gone?
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Glad your okay...if something happened to you I wouldn't have anyone to buy useless crap from 
I have a Cobra Imola S in my car, it just barely fits(just kisses the door plastic).
http://www.subesports.com/products/c...bra/prodID/656
(they have a sizing chart for the dimensions of all the seats too btw)
I have a Cobra Imola S in my car, it just barely fits(just kisses the door plastic).http://www.subesports.com/products/c...bra/prodID/656
(they have a sizing chart for the dimensions of all the seats too btw)
11-15-10, 07:07 PM
#13
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I never heard from you
Anyway sorry those seats were counterfeit and glad you didn't get injured when they fell apart.
For all those who may be interested these came from the low mileage Evil Twin FD that I purchased a couple of years ago and is now my daily driver and I clearly had no idea they were not as advertised by the seller when I bought the car and of course later sold them to Crispy. I also don't think Sparco is going to admit that their 10 year old seats are falling apart.
VERY SCAREY indeed.
11-15-10, 07:12 PM
#14
All out Track Freak!
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Anywho given what happened with these seats I'll give you a very fair price like I did on the bad ones.
11-15-10, 07:14 PM
#15
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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Glad your OK, trust me it could have been a lot worse. Personally, I wouldnot put any Sparco "road" or bottom mount seat in any car that has a harness and will see track speeds. ESPECIALLY bottom mount seats. I have a car here with Sparco Fighters, which are bottom mount, and I have been warring with the customer for some time to NOT use these seats on the track, especially now that the car has a proper roll cage.
In truth I do not like any of the lower-end Sparcos such as the EVO (or whatever its called now) and similar seats. I guess they are marginal, but I would not trust my safety to one. I chose metal seats, bolted in and with as little movement and as much support as is reasonable. If we must use a Composite seat, a proper shell will work, but must be mounted properly. The only thing a shell has going for it really is that is will flex and move with your body to some degree in an impact. The problem is it does flex, and that can cause other issues.
Now for my standard safety speech about track safety. I know that your only doing a "track day" in your "street car", but the realities are the same. I quite often see very decently built machines out on track without an ounce of safety gear beyond an out of date harnessand the drivers helmet and spiffy racing gloves. Bad. Bad. Bad.
See the tragedy that follows you balling up a car in a fence or "racing incedent" is not that you die. If you die, the people you love and that love you mourn your loss, remember all the cool things about you, and eventually move on with life with those happy thoughts in thier heads.
No, the tragedy is you live. You live as a para or quadrapeligic or as a burn victim, or worse, a victim of massive neck and head injuries. Then the people in your life who love and care for you will have to take care of you the rest of your life. The people you provide for will need to provide for you, for the rest of your life. Picture your wife or mother having to bathe, dress, and feed you every day, having to provide for the things you need in life, and the hate and resentment they will have for the thing you love because of what it "did to you". This is the reality of not having proper safety equipment even on a "track day".
Roll bars, right side nets, arm restraints, in-date harnesses, fire suits, proper footware, and a well mounted proper seat is about the minimum, with a small handheld fire extinguisher can be pretty handy.
Anywho, thats my safety speech, I will head back over to the getting-older racers home now.
In truth I do not like any of the lower-end Sparcos such as the EVO (or whatever its called now) and similar seats. I guess they are marginal, but I would not trust my safety to one. I chose metal seats, bolted in and with as little movement and as much support as is reasonable. If we must use a Composite seat, a proper shell will work, but must be mounted properly. The only thing a shell has going for it really is that is will flex and move with your body to some degree in an impact. The problem is it does flex, and that can cause other issues.
Now for my standard safety speech about track safety. I know that your only doing a "track day" in your "street car", but the realities are the same. I quite often see very decently built machines out on track without an ounce of safety gear beyond an out of date harnessand the drivers helmet and spiffy racing gloves. Bad. Bad. Bad.
See the tragedy that follows you balling up a car in a fence or "racing incedent" is not that you die. If you die, the people you love and that love you mourn your loss, remember all the cool things about you, and eventually move on with life with those happy thoughts in thier heads.
No, the tragedy is you live. You live as a para or quadrapeligic or as a burn victim, or worse, a victim of massive neck and head injuries. Then the people in your life who love and care for you will have to take care of you the rest of your life. The people you provide for will need to provide for you, for the rest of your life. Picture your wife or mother having to bathe, dress, and feed you every day, having to provide for the things you need in life, and the hate and resentment they will have for the thing you love because of what it "did to you". This is the reality of not having proper safety equipment even on a "track day".
Roll bars, right side nets, arm restraints, in-date harnesses, fire suits, proper footware, and a well mounted proper seat is about the minimum, with a small handheld fire extinguisher can be pretty handy.
Anywho, thats my safety speech, I will head back over to the getting-older racers home now.
11-15-10, 08:11 PM
#16
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Given the nature of this thread and the fact that I sell tons of parts I'd like to offer up some info on the car.
Here's a magazine article for the car that had the seats in it that I sold to Crispy. If the seats aren't Sparcos it's not because the owner was skimping.
The rails were custom and he also had the seats recovered. Again I wouldn't be at all surprised if the seats are in fact sparcos.
http://www.importtuner.com/features/...ing_seats.html
Here's a magazine article for the car that had the seats in it that I sold to Crispy. If the seats aren't Sparcos it's not because the owner was skimping.
The rails were custom and he also had the seats recovered. Again I wouldn't be at all surprised if the seats are in fact sparcos.
http://www.importtuner.com/features/...ing_seats.html
11-15-10, 09:23 PM
#19
I just wanted others to be aware of this potential outcome if they had a similar seat.
is the bucket metal or fiberglass? Got any pics of the mounting points they ripped out of? Scary stuff. If those blobs were set into fiberglass, that's definitely the wrong way to do an insert!
Roll bars, right side nets, arm restraints, in-date harnesses, fire suits, proper footware, and a well mounted proper seat is about the minimum, with a small handheld fire extinguisher can be pretty handy.
Vosko: no FIA stickers on the seats. My BIG mistake.
$lacker: LOL...the TAG is my workhorse.
Regards,
crispy
11-16-10, 09:54 AM
#21
FWIW,
I don't think any of the bottom-mount Sparco seats are FIA certified—they list specifically "FIA Homologation" on their site for seats that are. They do make a tubular race seat, but it's side mount.
Chris, time for some EVOs, or better yet for you, some RZ Recaros.
I don't think any of the bottom-mount Sparco seats are FIA certified—they list specifically "FIA Homologation" on their site for seats that are. They do make a tubular race seat, but it's side mount.
Chris, time for some EVOs, or better yet for you, some RZ Recaros.
11-18-10, 12:42 PM
#25
When I was looking into for Bride racing seats for my TII I was relieved to see that no one was currently counterfeiting the FIA homologated seats.
Anyways, I wanted an FIA homologated seat- but then you have narrowed the search further when trying to fit such a seat in an FD.
You mention stock seats- warning!
I ended up getting stock JDM FC3S Infini model "fixed back" seats. After some auto-x with passengers the US passenger side seat rail broke where it mounts to the seat.
It was a purposefully weakened design so I put it on the stronger US rail with that one hole drilled to fit.
Stock (especially JDM- different crash standards) is not necessarily the safest bet.
I could not even use a 4 pt harness with the Infini seats anyways as the shoulder cut outs are too low- so I am back to dreaming of Bride Zeta III.
Anyways, I wanted an FIA homologated seat- but then you have narrowed the search further when trying to fit such a seat in an FD.
You mention stock seats- warning!
I ended up getting stock JDM FC3S Infini model "fixed back" seats. After some auto-x with passengers the US passenger side seat rail broke where it mounts to the seat.
It was a purposefully weakened design so I put it on the stronger US rail with that one hole drilled to fit.
Stock (especially JDM- different crash standards) is not necessarily the safest bet.
I could not even use a 4 pt harness with the Infini seats anyways as the shoulder cut outs are too low- so I am back to dreaming of Bride Zeta III.