SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Alright, I'm kind of at a loss at the moment. I've been noticing some very strange things about my '93 project and up until this moment haven't quite understood them.

The VIN is clean, even though it was in an accident and has front end damage (which is just about to be repaired). No problems there. The first thing that caught my attention was when I got it home and emptied the hatch and noticed that under the carpet the floor was silver. The interior floor is red. The front nose of the car was originally red, with all body panels painted silver. I dismissed this for a bit thinking that they painted the interior of the car as well. Jump forward to today. I'm pulling interior out and I notice some rather unusual seams and what looks like a poor repair job on fixing the seam for the rocker panel. Ok, no big deal, I'll clean it up and it won't be noticed. So i continue along my merry way and pull the A-frame cover off and there's a massive weld going all the way accross the a-frame. And what do I see!? The roof side is silver, and the dash side is red! WTF! I start searching around, and I discover that further down the rocker, that the rear section on the interior is silver as well! Following it around I can find where it leads to the original floor seems and everything is welded back together. I am beyond amazed and somewhat speechless. The entire front clip including the dash and floor pan is from a red car, along with a good 10" of the a-pillars, the rest is of some unknown silver car. The kicker is you can hardly notice except for those few crappy weld seams, the others looks almost factory and use original spot weld locations. I'm not sure what to do. The car drives straight, exterior is straight, and everything except the front damage is straight on the frame rack. I trust the seam welds as they look as good as factory, but the A-pillar ones jump out at me and really make me hesitant. Sucks that I have almost all of the parts to finish it up on the way and then I find this.

Anybody seen anything like this? Suggestions on if it's safe/death trap? I'll dig up some pictures shortly.

jkinluv

I always heard this is a big problem overseas with cars being chopped and put back together...I honestly can't comment on the safety of the vehicle.

J

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

If it didn't have a title that matched the first VIN, i'd be wondering where it came from too! I really don't know what to do with it anymore.

sereneseven

HAH OMFG I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!

so yeah i bought mine with the knowledge that it had been crashed at some point but wasn't completly sure where since all the body work lined up pretty well and nothing really jumped out at me when i was looking it over......shame on me I should have insisted on putting it up on a lift and really going through it (oh well it was cheap). turns out the frame from LF head light to the right side firewall was once red (car is silver) along with the hood fenders rear bumper...so yeah i feel your pain, as for safety..it all depend on how well they put it back together, whomever welded mine back together apparentley had some skill (suprising) and did a pretty good job....however i did go in and tig on a few extra braces and am building a pretty beefy strut tower brace just to make myself feel a little better.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

The thing that bothers me the most are the pillars. I'm too lazy to resize pictures. The first is the seam along the rocker panel on the inside that has been covered. The second is the A. The pictures suck, I know...

http://www.1300cc.com/cars/FD/IMAGE_00001.jpg
http://www.1300cc.com/cars/FD/IMAGE_00007.jpg

oo7arkman

iTrader: (2)

Well, it will never be as strong as a car in its original form, but we all knew that.. I think I would take it to a welder with VERY good skills and experience and have him take a look at the welds. He should be able to tell you if it looks like quality work or not.

All these carfax reports are good in all, but this just shows that none of us can really rely on stuff like that for truely accurate information. I know plenty of body shop guys and not even close to everything gets reported and logged. We just have to develop good skills at looking at vehicles and/or take it to a good shop. But just as in this case it can be hidden very well and almost undetectable to most of us.

sevensix

iTrader: (1)

sucks. ive had some experience with sellers that were less than honest too

those pictures are crazy. is that rust? i wouldn't trust work like that

REVERE

What is vehicle rebirthing?
Vehicle rebirthing is the name given when a stolen vehicle is given a new identity, usually by changing its identification numbers and serial numbers. As the identity of a stolen car is a problem for thieves when trying to resell a vehicle, they replace the car's identity with that of a wrecked vehicle. By doing this, it can be claimed that the vehicle was repaired to a roadworthy condition.

I think that could be what happened. But if the welds are good it will be just as strong as stock.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I wouldn't spend another dime on it, seriously.

Part it out and/or buy another project car.

The car is welded back together improperly, the joints are all on a single plane. You can put a clip on a car, but you've got to use the original seams. The rockers and a-pillars have more metal inside them, they didn't weld those back together.

This is the way to add a front clip.

Drill out the original spot welds:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1171...34192742uAEflY

Use original seams:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1174...34192742KnXTyn

In reality the car is put together pretty much like the factory did it. The welds are not all in one plane.

sereneseven

Not always..cars werent magically built they were welded together from parts. in fact depending on how they re-welded it some of the joints are probably stronger than the factory pinch welds.....it all depends on how well they did the repair.

the a pillar doesn't look to bad from that angle but it's impossible to really judge it with out looking at it in person...the other pic i couldn't tell what i was looking at. in a perfect world they should have cut and welded it at an angle in order to increase the surface area of the repair but honestley it should be ok....if it is just butt welded you may want to consider adding a patch over it.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

They seemed to have done so with the floor/etc, they're actually reusing the stock seam locations and you can tell where spotwelds were removed/replaced all along that area, however there's those two larger regions that really kind of make me go WTF. Those two are the A-pillar, as this is done halfway up it and obviously directly accross. The other is right behind the seat, but it's hidden by that filler stuff, so I can't tell exactly how it's done underneath there. If my other camera wasn't such a pain in the *** I'd try to get some better pictures.

rxcited2

Wow turbojeff, that was a really cool sequence of photos to look at! Looks like that yellow FD was done right and RIGHTEOUS. I am impressed.

oo7arkman

iTrader: (2)

I made the statement based on the pics provided. Welds look OK, but not good enough to be better than a factory car. Then it is hard to tell quallity of welds from a pic...

turBRO240

iTrader: (1)

forget about the car.... to the question if its a deathtrap..... YES

see... a welder CAN make the weld stronger than if its was one piece..... but thats a problem.... in a impact the frame is built to bend and crush in specific places so that the impact is reduced but the cockpit(and the people) are not harmed.


my friend got into a accident and the front part of the frame was bent...... a welder cut it off and welded it back so that the frame is straight and lined up and everything..... he said that the weld is stronger than if it was all one piece... and he was probably right... BUT that again is the problem... on a impact, that part that is supose to TAKE that impact is now strenghend and the pressure/shock of that impact will effect the persons inside the car.

my father explained this to me..... he is a bio-dynamical and structural engineer........ basically a saftey engineer for humans and structures(cars, airplanes, buildings)


so... by all means... part out the car and get rid of it.

sereneseven

yeah thats correct however in this case from the discription none of the repairs are in the "crumple zones" but rather in places that need to be as strong as possible....while this car will have a greatley reduced value do to these repairs, they should be fixable and if patched and rienforced wherever needed could probably be saved and safe, If your main goals for the car are your enjoyment of driving it than I wouldn't just simply write it off.... If your looking at investing large amounts of money in it and plan on getting some of that back at some point by selling it than by all means find a clean shell to start from.

sevensix

iTrader: (1)

i was thinking the same thing ^

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

The shell has other damage currently, a good clean shell goes for what $3k?

Don't throw good money after bad.

turBRO240

iTrader: (1)

well... if your going to a use it as a track car or somthing... eh i dono


i still dont aprove of it......... but you dont have to listen to me...

fedupfd3

iTrader: (1)

I would ask around about custom body shops in the area. One that is known for major restorations on cars and have them look at it.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Yeah, it's got quite a bit to repair up front still. Looks like I'll be finding a shell.

Asterisk

iTrader: (3)

Hmm, well, you know a car like this is a unibody... how do they make a unibody frame?

Weld different "clips" together. the front engine bay frame, the side door panel frames, the floor, the roof, etc. Theyt are joined by seams, so if, AS ALREADY MENTIONED, one would wreck a car, and then, to insure that the frame is straight, buys a new "part" of the unibody, and replaces it, welding it n the factory locations, with quality weldaments, then, its just like any normal "non-fixed" car. IMO, i would blast the frame, and recoat it the same color after doing work like this, but for asthetic reasons, rather than to hide anything.

As for the roof welds... Ok, you roll car= you break roof. how do you fix roof? you cut it off, and weld on a new one. Again, the determiming factor is the quality/ as close to stock attachment points, other than that, I wouldn't sweat it as much as all the other people.

I dunno man, if it works, why break it( throw it out) i would just use the current frame...

Unless you get into another acident, THEN changing frames would prolly be a good idea.

EDIT: You guys ever see that European rotary Shop video? They filmed what the shop area looked like, with tons of lifts, FC's FD's, rotary engine parts like housings, and even FD unibody parts... if a good shop like that does this kind of work, then whats the big deal? I guess, maybe if its like, stick welded...

EDIT#2: POST BETTER PICS, YO!

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

I agree a car can be welded back together from pieces using factory seams. The issue is this car has been welded back together, maybe in not such an ideal manner. On TOP OF THAT it has been in another accident and not repaired yet.

Should someone continue to spend time to fix the body when there isn't much that hasn't been messed with yet?

I think not but it isn't my car...

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

There's only a few factors that really make ditching it difficult. It sucks that it's yet another FD that'll get sent to the crusher (probably where the other two halves of it are!). It also isn't easy to locate a roller near here, and even more difficult to find a shell. Not to mention I'm lacking tools to make all of the work required for that very easy. It really makes me weary of buying used cars.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Some more info; I had a local body shop welder who I've heard good things of come check it out. He was rather impressed with the job on the floor, as the rear of the floor uses all of the original seams and locations. It looked like they took the entire exterior rocker from the silver car with it, and welded this in along the original seams. The interior rail/support that's on the interior of the rocker is welded at an angle, nowhere near an original support, but the welds are good and strong here. He said the floor shouldn't be anything to worry about. He was worried about the A-pillars though. It looked like they cut the exterior lower than the interior, so that it's really welded in a couple of different locations rather than one straight massive cut. The welds are OK, though they're not the prettiest in the world. He suggested just cleaning them up, covering it all and if I'm still worried putting in a cage. It made me feel a bit better, but I'm still kind of frustrated about it all. It's taken quite a while to find a project, but I wasn't expecting quite something like this! I'm at a hard decision between crushing it (and losing another, somewhat usable FD), or taking the time to fix the rest of it right. (turbojeff style)

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I think I would just go on and use it as-is, perhaps let your friend touch the a pillars up a bit. BUt then again, I am not the "re-engineer the wheel" type, but more of the "if it works, leave well enough alone" type.

I'd bet that more members on this forum than you have frame damaged FD's and don't know it. They experience no issues as a result, and so they have no way to find out about them and lay awake at night worrying about them.