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Some of you know my situation, and I am not trying to have this be a debate or slamfest, so I will not mention names here. I will also not go into any other problems the car had after repair, as this is not what this thread is about.
Preface: My car ran nicely and boosted a PERFECT 12-10-12 on a Steve Kan tuned PFC, prior to blowing a coolant seal.
My car blew a coolant seal and I sent it off to a shop to be rebuilt. When I got it back, it would no longer boost. I had to send it back to the mechanic to get it corrected. When I talked to him the other day, he says my rear turbo is totally shot and chewed up.
I asked him how it could boost perfectly before the coolant seal blew, and now the turbo is totally shot and chewed up (keep in mind, not an Apex seal blew, a coolant seal). He said that the front turbo could have been boosting alone. This doesn't make sense to me, because it spooled fast and even had the boost dip when engaging the secondary. I don't want to call him a liar, so I am trying to see if this is possible. Plus, if that were the case, why won't it boost now, the way it was boosting before? It won't boost at all now.
Any input is welcome.
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i don't know about rotary engines all that well but that sounds kinda shady. i would ask him what caused it and have him explain it to ya. especially if they where good when you took it in thier.
Is this shop reputable shop recommended by someone here on the forum?
Have they done any work before on 3rd gens?
Did you see the secondary turbo with the so called chewed up wheel? Because he would have to take the turbos off and then take the secondary turbo off to see it. I doubt they did all that for you if they didn't take time make sure your car ran perfect before giving your keys back.
The shop was highly recomended by many Florida 7 owners. As a matter of fact, that is why I am not mentioning the name here, because in another thread, it turned into a huge argument. He is about 2 hours away, so I am not able to see the turbo. People from the forum that frequent the shop, say they saw the turbo, and that it was chewed up. However, for all I know, that could be any turbo off any car, and not the turbo that was on my car when I gave it to him. Not saying that is what happened, but I have no idea how to explain this. This is why I am here looking for comments, as maybe there was something I wasn't considering. I am pretty mechanical, and have a very good understanding of the turbo system, I just didn't have the time to rebuild it myself.
Now I am in a position that I don't know what to do. I had to pay him in cash to even get my car back the first time. So I suppose I could take it back from him, but it's in a non-working state and I have already paid him, and he is saying it needs new turbos. Even if he is lying and those aren't really my turbos, what can I do, I can't prove that it boosted perfect before it went to him, it's just my word, and maybe some friends who rode in the car.
Well, just as you said, coolant seal failure will not lead to chewed up turbos.
I hate to say it but at this point its hard to tell if you are lying or the shop. My guess is the shop since you say your car ran perfect and the shop confirmed with you that it was in fact coolant seal failure. So, I would put blame on the shop since they knew it can't be the blownout apex seal and now they are saying its blown turbo (caused by apex seal).
Maybe you could work out with the shop that you'll provide them with a stock twins and they will install for free or something.. Twins are pretty cheap these days.
It's possible to have good boost and power from a chewed up turbo. I bought my car with 68,000 miles on it, and the guy I bought it from just put a Mazda reman in it - the previous owner blew an apex seal. Car ran fantastic - great boost, great power, made 230hp to the ground with just a downpipe and catback.
Fast forward to about 85,000 miles - turbos start to smoke. I swap the turbos out, and the secondary turbo was all chewed up from the apex seal that went on the original motor. I think this led to that turbo being slightly off balance and eventually eating its bearings, causing the smoking.
So, you could both be right here. Remember, turbos don't care what they look like as long as they work. If the secondary was truly dead, you should have fine primary boost, then have the power steadily drop off as RPM's climb.
There's a ZILLION things that can lead to no boost - boost leaks, vacuum lines, etc. I'll put it this way - the turbo is a definite problem. Used turbos are cheap - get that fixed and go from there.
Dale
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Thanks Dale. That is what I was wondering, if they can boost well, even with a torn up blade.
The only thing that still bothers me is, why would it not boost AT ALL after he put it back together? If the turbos bossted perfect (even though chewed up) before, why will it not bosst at all now?
He could have connected some vac hoses wrong....or maybe your intake piping isn't connected?(missing couplar) Anything could be wrong, but one things for sure is that it's the shops fault for the 0 boost.
Its a vacuum hose routing problem... almost put money on it.
since it's not working anyway, you should print out the vacuum hose diagram and replace all the hoses... it'll help you understand the system and 99% likely solve your problem.
not saying you don't understand... but working on these yourself gives amazing info/confidence.
no boost at all? like none? zip nada? well if the turbos are off you can like get a mirro and a flash light to go take a look. Even shitted up turbos ussually still give you some boost i think? sounds more like a huge vac leak or like some vac lines or sensors. have u tried plugging back in a stock ecu and pull codes?
He has the car, I am not diagnosing it. That is the problem, he says it need new turbos to be fixed, and have already paid him. So I can call BS and basically I'm sure he would just give me the car back in a non working state.
Yeah, sounds to me like something isn't right. Maybe boost leak, vacuum lines wrong, etc. If it boosted perfect before, and it wasn't an apex seal that blew, killing the turbos, seems like it should still be boosting after the engine build.
It's possible to have good boost and power from a chewed up turbo. I bought my car with 68,000 miles on it, and the guy I bought it from just put a Mazda reman in it - the previous owner blew an apex seal. Car ran fantastic - great boost, great power, made 230hp to the ground with just a downpipe and catback.
Fast forward to about 85,000 miles - turbos start to smoke. I swap the turbos out, and the secondary turbo was all chewed up from the apex seal that went on the original motor. I think this led to that turbo being slightly off balance and eventually eating its bearings, causing the smoking.
So, you could both be right here. Remember, turbos don't care what they look like as long as they work. If the secondary was truly dead, you should have fine primary boost, then have the power steadily drop off as RPM's climb.
There's a ZILLION things that can lead to no boost - boost leaks, vacuum lines, etc. I'll put it this way - the turbo is a definite problem. Used turbos are cheap - get that fixed and go from there.
Dale
I agree with Dale 100%. My take is the lack of boost is probably caused by some kind of vacuum leak but that the turbo is also chewed up and always has been. If the shop is reputable, I highly, highly doubt they are pulling some scam like swapping in a bad turbo. Its more work for them to pull stuff like that than its worth (*cough* PFS *cough*). Sometimes shops make a mistake somewhere unknowningly and then blame it on the wrong thing because, well, like Dale said, a lot of things can cause a lack of boost. If it boosted fine before the rebuild, you can make them make sure it boosts the same way as before, but I'd still replace the turbo.
In my opinion, that is probably what is happeneing. the turbo may have a chewed balde, but still boosted fine. He hooked something up wrong and it wouldn't boost at all, and is saying it's the turbos being chewed up that is causing it. because it clearly should boost the same as it did before, regardless of the turbo's condition.
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