RotaryExtreme toelink upgrade and install - pics
03-30-04, 09:17 PM
#1
RotaryExtreme toelink upgrade and install - pics
one of the toe links on my track car toggled a bit so I decided to replace them. I decidede to go with the RotaryExtreme's version of the links:
http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rod.html
Yes, I could have just purchased some relly good rod ends and used my current link rod, but I decided to just get the entire package.
Here are some comparo pics from the links that were previously on the car, I don't know who made the previous links.
Pic of RE's rod end, spacer, and seal.
Pic of the rod ends next to each other. you can see how the seal keeps the grim out that causes premature wear of the rod end.
Pic of rod ends next to each other, the one RE uses is beefier and covers more contact area with the 'ball'.
Pic of rod ends next to each other, notice how much thicker the 'wall' ont he side of the ball is.
Anyway, there are many options for these out there, but I do like what I got from RotaryExtreme.
http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rod.html
Yes, I could have just purchased some relly good rod ends and used my current link rod, but I decided to just get the entire package.
Here are some comparo pics from the links that were previously on the car, I don't know who made the previous links.
Pic of RE's rod end, spacer, and seal.
Pic of the rod ends next to each other. you can see how the seal keeps the grim out that causes premature wear of the rod end.
Pic of rod ends next to each other, the one RE uses is beefier and covers more contact area with the 'ball'.
Pic of rod ends next to each other, notice how much thicker the 'wall' ont he side of the ball is.
Anyway, there are many options for these out there, but I do like what I got from RotaryExtreme.
Last edited by damian; 03-30-04 at 09:21 PM.
03-30-04, 10:02 PM
#6
Super Snuggles
Sorry, didn't really read the title and just figured Damian would have more good pictures for my archives. 
I was wondering if they were the trailing arms, because I'd like to know what the difference is between the $225 version and the $350 version... $125 extra is a lot just for different rod ends.
I was wondering if they were the trailing arms, because I'd like to know what the difference is between the $225 version and the $350 version... $125 extra is a lot just for different rod ends.
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03-31-04, 12:43 AM
#8
>>Sorry, didn't really read the title and just figured Damian would have more good pictures for my archives.
hahaha, so true Jim :-)
>>I was wondering if they were the trailing arms, because I'd like to know what the difference is between the $225 version and the $350 version... $125 extra is a lot just for different rod ends.
I agree totaly, I would not pay $300+ for toe links or trailing arms. :-)
hahaha, so true Jim :-)
>>I was wondering if they were the trailing arms, because I'd like to know what the difference is between the $225 version and the $350 version... $125 extra is a lot just for different rod ends.
I agree totaly, I would not pay $300+ for toe links or trailing arms. :-)
03-31-04, 01:08 AM
#11
Originally posted by 1FooknTiteFD
nice pictures, let us know how the car handles after you get them installed
nice pictures, let us know how the car handles after you get them installed
03-31-04, 03:30 AM
#14
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If you had free play in the toe-links, it will change handling. I had this discussinon with my mechanic (racecar driver) yesterday and any free play in toe-links is bad. It changes your toe in corners which is bad bad bad (that's where part of the snap oversteer comes from - another part was from the worn pillowall bushings).
I'm getting my toe-links from RE also. I hope I will then finally be able to enjoy the gokart feeling of the FD. Until now it was only a very nervous car to me to
Not that it wasnt fun, lol...
I'm getting my toe-links from RE also. I hope I will then finally be able to enjoy the gokart feeling of the FD. Until now it was only a very nervous car to me to
Not that it wasnt fun, lol...
03-31-04, 04:31 AM
#15
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
rod end info
Here comes the $350 trailing arm.
The prices among rod ends vary by alot. Even at the same size, there is a $10 one and there is the top of the line $125 one. The old one that Damian has is the commercial grade one which should never be used on suspenion.
Rod ends have 2 kinds of construction The 2 piece one and the 3 piece one. The old one that Damian has is the 2 piece one. The 3 piece one is the one we use on the Rotary Extreme toe links and trailing arms which has the separate race (the center ring piece between the ball and the main body). Many materials are available such as heat treated steel and stainless steel on all 3 componetns (ball, race, and main body). The price varies by what kind of material it uses on which component.
The racing trailing arms uses a rod end that costs $90 a piece, hence the price difference. We don't even bother to offer the racing rod ends on the toe links. $360 just for the rod ends without the rods and bushings. Simply not affordable and unnecessary. But if you want them just for the heck of it, we can get it done for you.
Chuck Huang
The prices among rod ends vary by alot. Even at the same size, there is a $10 one and there is the top of the line $125 one. The old one that Damian has is the commercial grade one which should never be used on suspenion.
Rod ends have 2 kinds of construction The 2 piece one and the 3 piece one. The old one that Damian has is the 2 piece one. The 3 piece one is the one we use on the Rotary Extreme toe links and trailing arms which has the separate race (the center ring piece between the ball and the main body). Many materials are available such as heat treated steel and stainless steel on all 3 componetns (ball, race, and main body). The price varies by what kind of material it uses on which component.
The racing trailing arms uses a rod end that costs $90 a piece, hence the price difference. We don't even bother to offer the racing rod ends on the toe links. $360 just for the rod ends without the rods and bushings. Simply not affordable and unnecessary. But if you want them just for the heck of it, we can get it done for you.
Chuck Huang
03-31-04, 11:40 AM
#17
I had to do something about my worn toe links recently. After doing some research, it seemed that the stock links last longer, and work just as well as the aftermarket links. After all, all it has to do is stay in place. The OEM links are expensive, so I just replaced the bearings in the stock arm.
03-31-04, 02:20 PM
#19
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
All the other aftermarket toe links or trailing arms do not come with rod end seals and that's why they don't last as long.
Ours come with the rod end seals to prevent any dirt getting in between the ball and the race.
Ours will last as long or even more than the stock one. Even when they wear out, it's a lot easier to change just the rod end vs. pressing in the pillowballs.
Chuck Huang
Ours come with the rod end seals to prevent any dirt getting in between the ball and the race.
Ours will last as long or even more than the stock one. Even when they wear out, it's a lot easier to change just the rod end vs. pressing in the pillowballs.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by adam c
I had to do something about my worn toe links recently. After doing some research, it seemed that the stock links last longer, and work just as well as the aftermarket links. After all, all it has to do is stay in place. The OEM links are expensive, so I just replaced the bearings in the stock arm.
I had to do something about my worn toe links recently. After doing some research, it seemed that the stock links last longer, and work just as well as the aftermarket links. After all, all it has to do is stay in place. The OEM links are expensive, so I just replaced the bearings in the stock arm.
03-31-04, 02:24 PM
#20
As I recall, the OEM links were over $200 each, and that was a discounted price from Mazda Motorsports. I bought the 4 replacement bearings, and had them pressed in by a machine shop ($40). Mazda Motorsports price was about $32 each for the bearings. I suspect that you could get them for around $40 each from Mazdaformance, or Malloy Mazda (not including shipping to wherever you are).
Chuck, I think its great that your links have the covers on them ...... like the stock links. That should make them last longer than the other aftermarket links that dont have covers.
Chuck, I think its great that your links have the covers on them ...... like the stock links. That should make them last longer than the other aftermarket links that dont have covers.
Last edited by adam c; 03-31-04 at 02:29 PM.
03-31-04, 02:48 PM
#21
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seals
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodacc.htm
threaded aluminum tubes
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
jam nuts
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends(more expensive if you think you need em)
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodpick.htm
just need the spacers...that most any machine shop could whip up for 40 bucks. And don't give me any of that "designed" crap. Its a straight freakin rod that copies the stock piece.
John
PS: the picture of the first rod ends were high misalignment rod ends.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror9a.htm
Notice the H dimension
vs standard.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror7a.htm
I doubt you need it in this application...but that's what they were and why they were so much "thinner" than the others. By design.
PSS: The seals keep grime out...but they also keep it in. I ran heims on one side of my rally car with seals...one without...which one developed slack first yah think?
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodacc.htm
threaded aluminum tubes
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
jam nuts
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends(more expensive if you think you need em)
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodpick.htm
just need the spacers...that most any machine shop could whip up for 40 bucks. And don't give me any of that "designed" crap. Its a straight freakin rod that copies the stock piece.
John
PS: the picture of the first rod ends were high misalignment rod ends.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror9a.htm
Notice the H dimension
vs standard.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror7a.htm
I doubt you need it in this application...but that's what they were and why they were so much "thinner" than the others. By design.
PSS: The seals keep grime out...but they also keep it in. I ran heims on one side of my rally car with seals...one without...which one developed slack first yah think?
Last edited by teeter; 03-31-04 at 02:52 PM.
03-31-04, 03:14 PM
#22
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
On the toe links, there is right hand thread on one end and left hand thread on the other end so you can adjust it. How do you make it with a sinlge thread tube?
The the trailing arms, you need to use the factory bolt to go through the bottom, how do you do that with a pre thread tube?
Our toe links and trailing arms starts with solid round rod. They were extruded just enough to fit the rod end. Most other companies use a hollow tube so they only need to cut the tube to length and thread it.
If the seals keep the grime out and you start with a clean rod end, how did the dirty get inside? Those seals were designed for dirt racing. I got them directly from the source. Not resellers like baker precision.
The picture of the that dirty rod is the commcial grade one. Damian can provide the part numeber. It should be on the rod end.
Chuck Huang
The the trailing arms, you need to use the factory bolt to go through the bottom, how do you do that with a pre thread tube?
Our toe links and trailing arms starts with solid round rod. They were extruded just enough to fit the rod end. Most other companies use a hollow tube so they only need to cut the tube to length and thread it.
If the seals keep the grime out and you start with a clean rod end, how did the dirty get inside? Those seals were designed for dirt racing. I got them directly from the source. Not resellers like baker precision.
The picture of the that dirty rod is the commcial grade one. Damian can provide the part numeber. It should be on the rod end.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by teeter
seals
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodacc.htm
threaded aluminum tubes
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
jam nuts
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends(more expensive if you think you need em)
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodpick.htm
just need the spacers...that most any machine shop could whip up for 40 bucks. And don't give me any of that "designed" crap. Its a straight freakin rod that copies the stock piece.
John
PS: the picture of the first rod ends were high misalignment rod ends.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror9a.htm
Notice the H dimension
vs standard.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror7a.htm
I doubt you need it in this application...but that's what they were and why they were so much "thinner" than the others. By design.
PSS: The seals keep grime out...but they also keep it in. I ran heims on one side of my rally car with seals...one without...which one developed slack first yah think?
seals
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodacc.htm
threaded aluminum tubes
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
jam nuts
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends
http://www.secureperformanceorder.co...7&CategoryID=8
rod ends(more expensive if you think you need em)
http://www.bakerprecision.com/rodpick.htm
just need the spacers...that most any machine shop could whip up for 40 bucks. And don't give me any of that "designed" crap. Its a straight freakin rod that copies the stock piece.
John
PS: the picture of the first rod ends were high misalignment rod ends.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror9a.htm
Notice the H dimension
vs standard.
http://www.bakerprecision.com/auror7a.htm
I doubt you need it in this application...but that's what they were and why they were so much "thinner" than the others. By design.
PSS: The seals keep grime out...but they also keep it in. I ran heims on one side of my rally car with seals...one without...which one developed slack first yah think?
03-31-04, 03:49 PM
#23
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buy left handed and right handed threaded rod ends. They make both for just such an application. I guess I don't understand the question...
buy weld in adapters to screw the bolt into.
cutting a threaded shaft isn't a big deal...
so if you got the seals from the source...then they should be cheaper Just kidding. I have the baker seals in my rally car, and they have lasted through 1000+ rally stage miles. They are very tough. I'm impressed.
the rod end with the seals did last longer than the unsealed one...that was a trick question to see if anyone was awake if you don't think dirt will get in there...then you've never had experience racing in dirt. dirt gets EVERYWHERE. whether you want it or not...whether it seems like it should or not.
I'm not trying to say your stuff is crap or way over priced...add all the parts up and you have what i'd consider a "normal" profit margin for the parts being an assembled kit. I'm simply trying to show how to do it cheaper IF you're like me and ARE cheap and tired of paying $1k for this...or 1k for that for this freakin car.
no insults intended.
john
buy weld in adapters to screw the bolt into.
cutting a threaded shaft isn't a big deal...
so if you got the seals from the source...then they should be cheaper
Just kidding. I have the baker seals in my rally car, and they have lasted through 1000+ rally stage miles. They are very tough. I'm impressed.the rod end with the seals did last longer than the unsealed one...that was a trick question to see if anyone was awake
if you don't think dirt will get in there...then you've never had experience racing in dirt. dirt gets EVERYWHERE. whether you want it or not...whether it seems like it should or not. I'm not trying to say your stuff is crap or way over priced...add all the parts up and you have what i'd consider a "normal" profit margin for the parts being an assembled kit. I'm simply trying to show how to do it cheaper IF you're like me and ARE cheap and tired of paying $1k for this...or 1k for that for this freakin car.
no insults intended.
john
03-31-04, 04:16 PM
#25
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
What I mean is that if you buy a pre thread tube, it's only either left hand thread or left hand thread. But on the toe links, you need to have right hand thread on one end and left hand thread on the other. You can use a thread joint but I think keep it one piece is better. The toe link is pretty short already so if you want to account for the length of the rod end thread length and also the length of the joint, you might not be able to keep the toe link in stock length.
If you can make your own stuff, you should. Saving money is a good thing but somtimes it might cost more than you think. There is always this and that you don't see from the original estimate.
Chuck Huang
If you can make your own stuff, you should. Saving money is a good thing but somtimes it might cost more than you think. There is always this and that you don't see from the original estimate.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by teeter
buy left handed and right handed threaded rod ends. They make both for just such an application. I guess I don't understand the question...
buy weld in adapters to screw the bolt into.
cutting a threaded shaft isn't a big deal...
so if you got the seals from the source...then they should be cheaper Just kidding. I have the baker seals in my rally car, and they have lasted through 1000+ rally stage miles. They are very tough. I'm impressed.
the rod end with the seals did last longer than the unsealed one...that was a trick question to see if anyone was awake if you don't think dirt will get in there...then you've never had experience racing in dirt. dirt gets EVERYWHERE. whether you want it or not...whether it seems like it should or not.
I'm not trying to say your stuff is crap or way over priced...add all the parts up and you have what i'd consider a "normal" profit margin for the parts being an assembled kit. I'm simply trying to show how to do it cheaper IF you're like me and ARE cheap and tired of paying $1k for this...or 1k for that for this freakin car.
no insults intended.
john
buy left handed and right handed threaded rod ends. They make both for just such an application. I guess I don't understand the question...
buy weld in adapters to screw the bolt into.
cutting a threaded shaft isn't a big deal...
so if you got the seals from the source...then they should be cheaper
Just kidding. I have the baker seals in my rally car, and they have lasted through 1000+ rally stage miles. They are very tough. I'm impressed.the rod end with the seals did last longer than the unsealed one...that was a trick question to see if anyone was awake
if you don't think dirt will get in there...then you've never had experience racing in dirt. dirt gets EVERYWHERE. whether you want it or not...whether it seems like it should or not. I'm not trying to say your stuff is crap or way over priced...add all the parts up and you have what i'd consider a "normal" profit margin for the parts being an assembled kit. I'm simply trying to show how to do it cheaper IF you're like me and ARE cheap and tired of paying $1k for this...or 1k for that for this freakin car.
no insults intended.
john