The reliable daily driven FD recipe (for beginners)
09-08-12, 12:25 PM
#1
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The reliable daily driven FD recipe (for beginners)
The general public and sadly even some of our own RX7 enthusiast feel that the FD is a great car with the exception that the rotary engine is a pile of junk that leads to many reliability problems. However that’s not the case if you follow these FD reliability laws that don't include installing a V8 (that's right I played that card early hehe)
Purchase a nice low mileage unmolested car which will fix 99% of the reliability worries. If you happen to be that lucky or smart depending upon how you want to look at it you don’t need to do anything but add a boost gauge and properly maintain the car fixing things along the way that need addressing so pretend that you did exactly that. You bought a car with say 20k miles on it and it needs nothing.
Here are the things that are bad from the factory and can and will eventually go wrong. You can fix them now or live with any issues the car has.
1) Replace the stock ecu with a pfc and commander. The PFC is great because it fixes the annoying 3k hesitation that every single FD ever made in the USA has. As a bonus you will get 16 to 17mpg (versus the normal 12 to 14), a boost gauge, boost controller and temp gauge via the commander along with many other important engine readings like volts etc…. Most importantly it’s a standalone engine management system so once you’ve set your car up with the mods you prefer you can get your car tuned specifically for those modifications which should be done ASAP after installing the PFC.
2) Even though the PFC has a boost reading buy a boost gauge to make watching the boost and vacuum much easier.
3) Replace the stock precat with a DP (straight 3 inch down pipe) because it will eventually start to clog (probably already has to a degree) causing the exhaust flow to slow down/heat up the engine bay and suffocate your cars power and further cook your engine bay accessories and electronics. Rotaries run really hot giving off tons of carbon etc… that clogs up both the precat and midcat but the precat gets it the worst and was put on because of the strict emissions constraints in the us. In japan the FD didn’t have a precat at all for good reason.
4) Check your AST and the plastic side tanks on the radiator if they are faded/cloudy replace them with quality aluminum parts if not just wait until they are and replace when needed. If you are a worrier replace them now because they will eventually split.
5) You notice a boost problem and it’s the check valve under the pressure tank so you replace it with a viton check valve from Dale or find one on your own. The check valves either split or go bad so you can replace them now or later. Or its a split hose or disconnected dried up vacc hose so you replace all the vacc hose with high temp silicone hose or viton that you source from mcmasters or somewhere else. Get lots a 1/8 and the ¼ ID thick walled hose.
6) You notice slow boost response (laggy turbo) after several hard pulls and discover the midcat is clogged so you either jump up and down with joy because you live in a state that doesn’t test for emissions so you can remove all the emissions BS or pray that replacing it with a HF midcat will allow you to pass emissions.
7) The midpipe is causing the car to run like a raped ape and boost is creeping up to 12 psi, the air intake temps are rising, it’s cutting out/fuel cut in hard left handers and also under acceleration when the tank is getting low and also you notice the clutch is slipping on those cold mornings heading into work .
8) So you take your car to the tuner and he notices your fuel pressure dropping and your duty cycle hitting low 90s, AIT are above 60c, clutch slipping etc… so he recommends a supra TT pump, a nice VMIC (why not lets go all out) and some stock bored out 1200cc injectors that he sent off to RC engineering, ACT SS clutch with HD pressure plate and then he tunes the car up to 14 psi and its making 340 hp and now you can’t stop smiling.
9) Until six months later because 340 just isn’t enough so you come back to the tuner and ask for more power he says you can’t get more power without going single so that’s what you do and boom Sean at Aspec sells you a killer 500r and you go away making 400 hp and are smiling bigger than ever.
10) The turbo was killer alright it killed your motor and now
you’re back at the shop for a port etc because you want 500 hp………
OK the lesson here is if the power hungry guy in you can’t rest then you will never have a reliable FD because frankly this engine, driveline and chassis wasn’t meant to make double its stock HP and remain reliable, FACT, PERIOD, end of story so if this is the road you choose don’t malign the FD because it’s your fault for not starting with a corvette or viper to begin with
I find that most of the reliability issues are poor mods, poor maint or big power.
Another problem this car has is the gadget guy who adds 15 gauges, stereo with big amps and subs, alarms, auto locks, sleak head lights etc…..etc…. 1st don’t do that to this car unless you’re an electric engineer or are very good at faking it because this car doesn’t stomach tampering with the wires because it has electric issue that we call grounding problems, I have no idea what is going on, maybe it’s the small aluminum block iron combo or the thin sheet metal, combined with a monocoque chassis or more than likely it’s simply possessed but whatever it is don’t temp the electric gremlins in this car or they will surely cause you major headaches: trouble starting, gauges malfunctioning, fuel pump problems etc….. ALSO leave the battery in the stock location and if you must relocate it run all wires through the engine bay back through the fire wall up high staying committed to the exact same setup as stock with simply a long positive wire and a ground to one of the thick seat belt holder spots in the back. Most important thing for success and your relocated battery is to keep the wires short and dry.
Speaking of electric issues the engine harness is a major problem on these cars with 100k plus miles because of it’s age and the large number of heat cycles it’s suffered through so look that over because it can cause lots of scratch your head type issues which are always the most frustrating kind or the something is wrong and I can’t figure it out sort.
So in summary here are my top 10 or so mods for fun and reliability:
PFC tuned by a pro
Boost gauge is a must have for any turbo car
Full exhaust for more heat reduction but it also reduces weight by 50lbs or more and increases boost response by increasing exhaust flow so there's nothing better you can do to increase the power on a turbo rotary than opening up the exhaust because as mentioned above it creates LOTS of exhaust/heat so the quicker you get rid of it the faster that turbo will spool and the less time it will sit in the exhaust chamber/manifold creating heat. So with that said go 3 inch front to back with a HF cat if you need to
DON'T give up on the twins because they are the single coolest thing about this car for street driving from the down low response/torque to the super cool feeling that the extra boost of the secondary coming on line provides (priceless stuff and one of the hallmarks/trademarks of this car). I've driven them all and nothing comes close to a really nice twin turbo FD for having fun around town or out in the country/mountains.
Upgrading the intercooler is extremely important because IMO the #1 out of the blue engine killer is pre detonation from hot air intake temps. So buy a SMIC, FMIC, VMIC…….or whatever works to keep your AITs at or below 50c and one that also doesn’t interfere with your radiator air flow or raise your water temps.
Upgrade your fuel pump(supra tt is a direct drop in it has good flow and it is reliable) because the stock pump doesn't flow enough for a 300 HP car which for me is the perfect power level to get the most out of this car and maintain reliability throughout entire car to include; driveline, bushings, PPF, oil pan leaks etc….
Aluminum AST or delete and replace coolant with evans (do a search and make up your mind). The stock AST is made of plastic and after it's baked in the rotary oven (engine bay) thousands of times it become brittle and cracks usually at the worst time causing your precious rotary to overheat (never a good thing search) so unless your tank is nice and dark and not faded and cloudy you will need to replace the AST and the radiator which is also made of plastic.
High quality aluminum radiator which may need custom ducting but your temps should stay below 100c when driving hard and never exceed 110c other than hot starts
Add a second oil cooler if you don't already have one. Rotaries run extra hot because of all the extra air and fuel they need (inefficient engine) which means you need lots of cooling and a second oil cooler is mandatory for your rotary engines long life.
IMPORTANT and probably the most important thing you can do for the longevity of your engine and driveline keep the boost set at 10 to 12 psi (will creep with a mid pipe). The duty cycle will be in the low 90s to even mid 90s so I'd advise upgrading the stock secondaries with 1200 or 1250cc injectors. For some reason when the stock injectors are bored beyond 1250 or at the 1300 limit they can stick and also the spray is less consistant so I recommend 1200 which is all you should need.
At the 300 rwhp level the stock clutch is on the edge of slipping. I like the ACT SS clutch with HD pressure plate and retain the stock fly wheel for better street drivability. The LWFW isn’t worth having more difficult launches, back lash under light throttle etc…..
Once you've done the above mods you will have a super fun car that's very reliable and will keep you smiling each time you drive it but beware of the voices especially the one whispering for the need to increase the boost and power. Listen to the voices that suggest simplifying the car and reducing weight and most importantly the voice commanding you to slow down before you kill yourself, the one that convinces you to go to the track to really learn how to drive etc…
For those that can’t get rid of the 1st voice that one begging for power hehe:
If you must have more power IMO the power limit for safe reliable street use is 375 and you'll need:
a singe turbo or upgraded twins
Igntion amp (i like the twin power)
Colder plugs (i like NGK 10s)
10mm wires
A spare trans and spare diff LOL
Sure you can go to 400 and up BUT add water or meth injection along with a spare motor to your must have list and lots of patience.
500 plus HP see the drag racer forum where they replace motors, diffs and transmissions like gas and oil so if you need that sort of power that's your best bet for reliability discussions
Things to have on hand and replace while modding or making repairs especially if your car has 100k plus miles (lots of stuff at the 100k mile mark in the engine bay is damaged by heat and should be replaced):
Variety of oil resitant high quality thick walled silicone hose
Factory water hose kit
Fuel filter and relocate after you change
Low mileage OMP and new OMP factory lines (aftermarket ss lines are a PIA and the factory lines are good for atleast 100k miles if not damaged by you working on the car) or delete it and run premix (1 oz per gallon if you use the cheap stuff at walmart or 1/2 oz per gallon if you use expensive synth stuff like amsoil).
Low mileage good engine harness
Fuel pulsation dampener, fuel hose, engine harness....
MAINT:
Oil every 2500 with cheap castrol GTX or something similar 10w 30 winter 10w 40 summer (this car pollutes the oil with gas really fast so no need for expensive oil as frequent changes are necessary)
Plugs every 15k miles (NGK 9s all around)
Premix 4 onces per tank if it helps you sleep at night and or you daily drive your car and live in a high traffic area (lots of idling)
Every 30k miles: fuel filter, gear oil
Belts when you see cracking (don't over tighten)
Bushings and pillowballs when you can shake any of the wheels or hear clunking etc.... (usually around the 50 to 75k mark)
Coolant hose if bloated and soft
Fuel hose if hard and cracking
In summary don’t get caught up in the power game and or crazy electronic mod game and you’ll have a nice fun relationship with this car otherwise beware.
PS Lots and lots of little things (like popping your hood when you can to let the heat out) I didn't mention but the above is the bare bones top 10 ingredients to make your TT FD a fun reliable DD car.
Purchase a nice low mileage unmolested car which will fix 99% of the reliability worries. If you happen to be that lucky or smart depending upon how you want to look at it you don’t need to do anything but add a boost gauge and properly maintain the car fixing things along the way that need addressing so pretend that you did exactly that. You bought a car with say 20k miles on it and it needs nothing.
Here are the things that are bad from the factory and can and will eventually go wrong. You can fix them now or live with any issues the car has.
1) Replace the stock ecu with a pfc and commander. The PFC is great because it fixes the annoying 3k hesitation that every single FD ever made in the USA has. As a bonus you will get 16 to 17mpg (versus the normal 12 to 14), a boost gauge, boost controller and temp gauge via the commander along with many other important engine readings like volts etc…. Most importantly it’s a standalone engine management system so once you’ve set your car up with the mods you prefer you can get your car tuned specifically for those modifications which should be done ASAP after installing the PFC.
2) Even though the PFC has a boost reading buy a boost gauge to make watching the boost and vacuum much easier.
3) Replace the stock precat with a DP (straight 3 inch down pipe) because it will eventually start to clog (probably already has to a degree) causing the exhaust flow to slow down/heat up the engine bay and suffocate your cars power and further cook your engine bay accessories and electronics. Rotaries run really hot giving off tons of carbon etc… that clogs up both the precat and midcat but the precat gets it the worst and was put on because of the strict emissions constraints in the us. In japan the FD didn’t have a precat at all for good reason.
4) Check your AST and the plastic side tanks on the radiator if they are faded/cloudy replace them with quality aluminum parts if not just wait until they are and replace when needed. If you are a worrier replace them now because they will eventually split.
5) You notice a boost problem and it’s the check valve under the pressure tank so you replace it with a viton check valve from Dale or find one on your own. The check valves either split or go bad so you can replace them now or later. Or its a split hose or disconnected dried up vacc hose so you replace all the vacc hose with high temp silicone hose or viton that you source from mcmasters or somewhere else. Get lots a 1/8 and the ¼ ID thick walled hose.
6) You notice slow boost response (laggy turbo) after several hard pulls and discover the midcat is clogged so you either jump up and down with joy because you live in a state that doesn’t test for emissions so you can remove all the emissions BS or pray that replacing it with a HF midcat will allow you to pass emissions.
7) The midpipe is causing the car to run like a raped ape and boost is creeping up to 12 psi, the air intake temps are rising, it’s cutting out/fuel cut in hard left handers and also under acceleration when the tank is getting low and also you notice the clutch is slipping on those cold mornings heading into work .
8) So you take your car to the tuner and he notices your fuel pressure dropping and your duty cycle hitting low 90s, AIT are above 60c, clutch slipping etc… so he recommends a supra TT pump, a nice VMIC (why not lets go all out) and some stock bored out 1200cc injectors that he sent off to RC engineering, ACT SS clutch with HD pressure plate and then he tunes the car up to 14 psi and its making 340 hp and now you can’t stop smiling.
9) Until six months later because 340 just isn’t enough so you come back to the tuner and ask for more power he says you can’t get more power without going single so that’s what you do and boom Sean at Aspec sells you a killer 500r and you go away making 400 hp and are smiling bigger than ever.
10) The turbo was killer alright it killed your motor and now
you’re back at the shop for a port etc because you want 500 hp………
OK the lesson here is if the power hungry guy in you can’t rest then you will never have a reliable FD because frankly this engine, driveline and chassis wasn’t meant to make double its stock HP and remain reliable, FACT, PERIOD, end of story so if this is the road you choose don’t malign the FD because it’s your fault for not starting with a corvette or viper to begin with
I find that most of the reliability issues are poor mods, poor maint or big power.Another problem this car has is the gadget guy who adds 15 gauges, stereo with big amps and subs, alarms, auto locks, sleak head lights etc…..etc…. 1st don’t do that to this car unless you’re an electric engineer or are very good at faking it because this car doesn’t stomach tampering with the wires because it has electric issue that we call grounding problems, I have no idea what is going on, maybe it’s the small aluminum block iron combo or the thin sheet metal, combined with a monocoque chassis or more than likely it’s simply possessed but whatever it is don’t temp the electric gremlins in this car or they will surely cause you major headaches: trouble starting, gauges malfunctioning, fuel pump problems etc….. ALSO leave the battery in the stock location and if you must relocate it run all wires through the engine bay back through the fire wall up high staying committed to the exact same setup as stock with simply a long positive wire and a ground to one of the thick seat belt holder spots in the back. Most important thing for success and your relocated battery is to keep the wires short and dry.
Speaking of electric issues the engine harness is a major problem on these cars with 100k plus miles because of it’s age and the large number of heat cycles it’s suffered through so look that over because it can cause lots of scratch your head type issues which are always the most frustrating kind or the something is wrong and I can’t figure it out sort.
So in summary here are my top 10 or so mods for fun and reliability:
PFC tuned by a pro
Boost gauge is a must have for any turbo car
Full exhaust for more heat reduction but it also reduces weight by 50lbs or more and increases boost response by increasing exhaust flow so there's nothing better you can do to increase the power on a turbo rotary than opening up the exhaust because as mentioned above it creates LOTS of exhaust/heat so the quicker you get rid of it the faster that turbo will spool and the less time it will sit in the exhaust chamber/manifold creating heat. So with that said go 3 inch front to back with a HF cat if you need to
DON'T give up on the twins because they are the single coolest thing about this car for street driving from the down low response/torque to the super cool feeling that the extra boost of the secondary coming on line provides (priceless stuff and one of the hallmarks/trademarks of this car). I've driven them all and nothing comes close to a really nice twin turbo FD for having fun around town or out in the country/mountains.
Upgrading the intercooler is extremely important because IMO the #1 out of the blue engine killer is pre detonation from hot air intake temps. So buy a SMIC, FMIC, VMIC…….or whatever works to keep your AITs at or below 50c and one that also doesn’t interfere with your radiator air flow or raise your water temps.
Upgrade your fuel pump(supra tt is a direct drop in it has good flow and it is reliable) because the stock pump doesn't flow enough for a 300 HP car which for me is the perfect power level to get the most out of this car and maintain reliability throughout entire car to include; driveline, bushings, PPF, oil pan leaks etc….
Aluminum AST or delete and replace coolant with evans (do a search and make up your mind). The stock AST is made of plastic and after it's baked in the rotary oven (engine bay) thousands of times it become brittle and cracks usually at the worst time causing your precious rotary to overheat (never a good thing search) so unless your tank is nice and dark and not faded and cloudy you will need to replace the AST and the radiator which is also made of plastic.
High quality aluminum radiator which may need custom ducting but your temps should stay below 100c when driving hard and never exceed 110c other than hot starts
Add a second oil cooler if you don't already have one. Rotaries run extra hot because of all the extra air and fuel they need (inefficient engine) which means you need lots of cooling and a second oil cooler is mandatory for your rotary engines long life.
IMPORTANT and probably the most important thing you can do for the longevity of your engine and driveline keep the boost set at 10 to 12 psi (will creep with a mid pipe). The duty cycle will be in the low 90s to even mid 90s so I'd advise upgrading the stock secondaries with 1200 or 1250cc injectors. For some reason when the stock injectors are bored beyond 1250 or at the 1300 limit they can stick and also the spray is less consistant so I recommend 1200 which is all you should need.
At the 300 rwhp level the stock clutch is on the edge of slipping. I like the ACT SS clutch with HD pressure plate and retain the stock fly wheel for better street drivability. The LWFW isn’t worth having more difficult launches, back lash under light throttle etc…..
Once you've done the above mods you will have a super fun car that's very reliable and will keep you smiling each time you drive it but beware of the voices especially the one whispering for the need to increase the boost and power. Listen to the voices that suggest simplifying the car and reducing weight and most importantly the voice commanding you to slow down before you kill yourself, the one that convinces you to go to the track to really learn how to drive etc…
For those that can’t get rid of the 1st voice that one begging for power hehe:
If you must have more power IMO the power limit for safe reliable street use is 375 and you'll need:
a singe turbo or upgraded twins
Igntion amp (i like the twin power)
Colder plugs (i like NGK 10s)
10mm wires
A spare trans and spare diff LOL
Sure you can go to 400 and up BUT add water or meth injection along with a spare motor to your must have list and lots of patience.
500 plus HP see the drag racer forum where they replace motors, diffs and transmissions like gas and oil so if you need that sort of power that's your best bet for reliability discussions
Things to have on hand and replace while modding or making repairs especially if your car has 100k plus miles (lots of stuff at the 100k mile mark in the engine bay is damaged by heat and should be replaced):
Variety of oil resitant high quality thick walled silicone hose
Factory water hose kit
Fuel filter and relocate after you change
Low mileage OMP and new OMP factory lines (aftermarket ss lines are a PIA and the factory lines are good for atleast 100k miles if not damaged by you working on the car) or delete it and run premix (1 oz per gallon if you use the cheap stuff at walmart or 1/2 oz per gallon if you use expensive synth stuff like amsoil).
Low mileage good engine harness
Fuel pulsation dampener, fuel hose, engine harness....
MAINT:
Oil every 2500 with cheap castrol GTX or something similar 10w 30 winter 10w 40 summer (this car pollutes the oil with gas really fast so no need for expensive oil as frequent changes are necessary)
Plugs every 15k miles (NGK 9s all around)
Premix 4 onces per tank if it helps you sleep at night and or you daily drive your car and live in a high traffic area (lots of idling)
Every 30k miles: fuel filter, gear oil
Belts when you see cracking (don't over tighten)
Bushings and pillowballs when you can shake any of the wheels or hear clunking etc.... (usually around the 50 to 75k mark)
Coolant hose if bloated and soft
Fuel hose if hard and cracking
In summary don’t get caught up in the power game and or crazy electronic mod game and you’ll have a nice fun relationship with this car otherwise beware.
PS Lots and lots of little things (like popping your hood when you can to let the heat out) I didn't mention but the above is the bare bones top 10 ingredients to make your TT FD a fun reliable DD car.
09-08-12, 12:43 PM
#2
Recovering Miataholic
Mr. Flynn,
The above should be published in hardback. I violated only one of your reliability rules... stayed with the stock ECU. But, after 106 K+ miles, she runs and sounds like a new FD on her original engine.
The above should be published in hardback. I violated only one of your reliability rules... stayed with the stock ECU. But, after 106 K+ miles, she runs and sounds like a new FD on her original engine.
09-08-12, 01:27 PM
#3
Sure you can go to 400 and up BUT add water or meth injection along with a spare motor to your must have list and lots of patience.
Good call on the AST. Ive gone through 2 or 3 AST's and they all break on the same spot.
09-08-12, 01:51 PM
#5
All out Track Freak!
Thread Starter
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Fritz... Every so many years one of the "older hands" lends a hand. This is one of the the best threads yet on the issue. I would echo your comment on power levels. While you can run 450-500 whp with water injection and all you suggest above, heat and complexity increase risk a lot. It also is a more difficult car to enjoy or achieve good laps in most venues. like back roads and tracks. The former is an opinion, whereas the latter is proven by those like you who track a good deal.
I would suggest personally perhaps adding water injection earlier on. The worst thing that can happen is to detonate and water injection gives 99.999% protection, assuming someone is following your recommendations above in step or parallel.
We've found many issues and solutions and made improvements to Mazda's original offering, but most are fairly simple unless you start adding a lot of power. 375 whp is right about twice the factory power and I find it pretty impressive that those power increases can be achieved in a very street-able and reliable sports car.
Gordon
I would suggest personally perhaps adding water injection earlier on. The worst thing that can happen is to detonate and water injection gives 99.999% protection, assuming someone is following your recommendations above in step or parallel.
We've found many issues and solutions and made improvements to Mazda's original offering, but most are fairly simple unless you start adding a lot of power. 375 whp is right about twice the factory power and I find it pretty impressive that those power increases can be achieved in a very street-able and reliable sports car.
Gordon
Water injection or meth injection can't hurt UNLESS the car is tuned for it and for some reason you run without it. My biggest pet peeve with water injection is the mess, the leaks, the hassle etc.... At at my power levels with a good nice IC it's not needed. I'm from the school of keep it simple and any other injection besides fuel is far from simple.
09-08-12, 02:29 PM
#8
I agree with about 99% of this. The only change I would suggest would be at least STAYING with the stock ECU in the event your ONLY mod is a downpipe. I put 3 years of research into FD's before I bought my first last year December. I picked up a 93 touring with 39k mi on it. The previous owner had taken excellent care of it and had receipts for work done. It was always garaged and had awesome compression. My first mods were close to $2300 worth. They included new turbo coolant and radiator lines, aluminum AST, Hose Techniques silicone hose kit, Azeknightz turbo control solenoids [damn near the best $600 I have spent on this car], Dale clark check valves, new pulsation damper, fuel filter, Defi boost and water temp gauges, pettit 3" down pipe, new plug wires and plugs, and an FC thermoswitch. I may have missed some things, I can check my files [I save all my receipts and document all maintenance].
Back to my supposedly absurd suggestion of keeping the stock ECU with a SINGULAR mod of a downpipe. The stock ecu has a closed loop control of boost. With a singular flow mod, the control is very mildly compromised. The highest boost I've seen on my PRIMARY turbo was 14.5psi. The factory ECU runs mildly richer for both emissions and safety purposes. The factory ECU also contains KNOCK CONTROL. The stock computer can pull up to 7* timing under knock detection. This can save your motor as a PFC does not have knock control. In the event you just cannot take it anymore and must mod your car further, then I believe a PFC would be a good addition. I have no plans to further modify my 7 until I undergo a full build. I say this because I feel anything past a downpipe requires supporting mods. An intake or exhaust would cause a flow increase and be cause for a boost controller. EBC's are LOUSY at controlling sequential boost. Dual ball and spring MBCs appear to be the best route you can go if you absolutely MUST add another mod and CANNOT afford a PFC. The PFC would be my ideal choice for controlling sequential boost.
My next purchase for my 7 will be a fast reacting IAT sensor from wannaspeed. This will quell the nasty heat soak experienced by both a slow reacting sensor and the heat soaking abilities of the rotary. Its a drop in plug in sensor and should return much driveability in hot weather. I would also like to invest in a Ron Davis "mazdaspeed" aluminum radiator. It's drop in, proven, and keeps water temps down. Next would be a dual oil cooler set up [I have a touring model]. This will also reduce operating temps. Don't forget, oil is both a lubricating and a cooling fluid. I will either invest in the SBG kit [fantastic company with proven products] or I will piece together my own kit.
Everyday when I get home from work, the first thing I do is open the oven door [the hood] and let my engine bay cool off. This GREATLY increases the longevity of underhood components. I'm not afraid to drive 45 min to the mall and then sit in the parking lot for 5 min with my hood open before I go inside. Its habit now. I don't call it crazy, I call it smart. Let the heat out before it kills everything around it.
As much as I would LOVE to add additional mods to my 7, I have held back on doing so. My reasoning is as follows:
If I get an intake or exhaust, I'll boost spike. To fix that I need either dual MBCs or a PFC. $200-1000 just to put on an additional mod. Anything further then that requires fuel mods and tuning. More $$$.
The modding game is expensive. I just concentrating on keeping mine on the road and running how I want it to. It's plenty fast for me as it sits now.
I hope my advice can help someone with their 7.
Matt
Back to my supposedly absurd suggestion of keeping the stock ECU with a SINGULAR mod of a downpipe. The stock ecu has a closed loop control of boost. With a singular flow mod, the control is very mildly compromised. The highest boost I've seen on my PRIMARY turbo was 14.5psi. The factory ECU runs mildly richer for both emissions and safety purposes. The factory ECU also contains KNOCK CONTROL. The stock computer can pull up to 7* timing under knock detection. This can save your motor as a PFC does not have knock control. In the event you just cannot take it anymore and must mod your car further, then I believe a PFC would be a good addition. I have no plans to further modify my 7 until I undergo a full build. I say this because I feel anything past a downpipe requires supporting mods. An intake or exhaust would cause a flow increase and be cause for a boost controller. EBC's are LOUSY at controlling sequential boost. Dual ball and spring MBCs appear to be the best route you can go if you absolutely MUST add another mod and CANNOT afford a PFC. The PFC would be my ideal choice for controlling sequential boost.
My next purchase for my 7 will be a fast reacting IAT sensor from wannaspeed. This will quell the nasty heat soak experienced by both a slow reacting sensor and the heat soaking abilities of the rotary. Its a drop in plug in sensor and should return much driveability in hot weather. I would also like to invest in a Ron Davis "mazdaspeed" aluminum radiator. It's drop in, proven, and keeps water temps down. Next would be a dual oil cooler set up [I have a touring model]. This will also reduce operating temps. Don't forget, oil is both a lubricating and a cooling fluid. I will either invest in the SBG kit [fantastic company with proven products] or I will piece together my own kit.
Everyday when I get home from work, the first thing I do is open the oven door [the hood] and let my engine bay cool off. This GREATLY increases the longevity of underhood components. I'm not afraid to drive 45 min to the mall and then sit in the parking lot for 5 min with my hood open before I go inside. Its habit now. I don't call it crazy, I call it smart. Let the heat out before it kills everything around it.
As much as I would LOVE to add additional mods to my 7, I have held back on doing so. My reasoning is as follows:
If I get an intake or exhaust, I'll boost spike. To fix that I need either dual MBCs or a PFC. $200-1000 just to put on an additional mod. Anything further then that requires fuel mods and tuning. More $$$.
The modding game is expensive. I just concentrating on keeping mine on the road and running how I want it to. It's plenty fast for me as it sits now.
I hope my advice can help someone with their 7.
Matt
09-08-12, 03:04 PM
#9
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I agree with about 99% of this. The only change I would suggest would be at least STAYING with the stock ECU in the event your ONLY mod is a downpipe. I put 3 years of research into FD's before I bought my first last year December. I picked up a 93 touring with 39k mi on it. The previous owner had taken excellent care of it and had receipts for work done. It was always garaged and had awesome compression. My first mods were close to $2300 worth. They included new turbo coolant and radiator lines, aluminum AST, Hose Techniques silicone hose kit, Azeknightz turbo control solenoids [damn near the best $600 I have spent on this car], Dale clark check valves, new pulsation damper, fuel filter, Defi boost and water temp gauges, pettit 3" down pipe, new plug wires and plugs, and an FC thermoswitch. I may have missed some things, I can check my files [I save all my receipts and document all maintenance].
Back to my supposedly absurd suggestion of keeping the stock ECU with a SINGULAR mod of a downpipe. The stock ecu has a closed loop control of boost. With a singular flow mod, the control is very mildly compromised. The highest boost I've seen on my PRIMARY turbo was 14.5psi. The factory ECU runs mildly richer for both emissions and safety purposes. The factory ECU also contains KNOCK CONTROL. The stock computer can pull up to 7* timing under knock detection. This can save your motor as a PFC does not have knock control. In the event you just cannot take it anymore and must mod your car further, then I believe a PFC would be a good addition. I have no plans to further modify my 7 until I undergo a full build. I say this because I feel anything past a downpipe requires supporting mods. An intake or exhaust would cause a flow increase and be cause for a boost controller. EBC's are LOUSY at controlling sequential boost. Dual ball and spring MBCs appear to be the best route you can go if you absolutely MUST add another mod and CANNOT afford a PFC. The PFC would be my ideal choice for controlling sequential boost.
My next purchase for my 7 will be a fast reacting IAT sensor from wannaspeed. This will quell the nasty heat soak experienced by both a slow reacting sensor and the heat soaking abilities of the rotary. Its a drop in plug in sensor and should return much driveability in hot weather. I would also like to invest in a Ron Davis "mazdaspeed" aluminum radiator. It's drop in, proven, and keeps water temps down. Next would be a dual oil cooler set up [I have a touring model]. This will also reduce operating temps. Don't forget, oil is both a lubricating and a cooling fluid. I will either invest in the SBG kit [fantastic company with proven products] or I will piece together my own kit.
Everyday when I get home from work, the first thing I do is open the oven door [the hood] and let my engine bay cool off. This GREATLY increases the longevity of underhood components. I'm not afraid to drive 45 min to the mall and then sit in the parking lot for 5 min with my hood open before I go inside. Its habit now. I don't call it crazy, I call it smart. Let the heat out before it kills everything around it.
As much as I would LOVE to add additional mods to my 7, I have held back on doing so. My reasoning is as follows:
If I get an intake or exhaust, I'll boost spike. To fix that I need either dual MBCs or a PFC. $200-1000 just to put on an additional mod. Anything further then that requires fuel mods and tuning. More $$$.
The modding game is expensive. I just concentrating on keeping mine on the road and running how I want it to. It's plenty fast for me as it sits now.
I hope my advice can help someone with their 7.
Matt
Back to my supposedly absurd suggestion of keeping the stock ECU with a SINGULAR mod of a downpipe. The stock ecu has a closed loop control of boost. With a singular flow mod, the control is very mildly compromised. The highest boost I've seen on my PRIMARY turbo was 14.5psi. The factory ECU runs mildly richer for both emissions and safety purposes. The factory ECU also contains KNOCK CONTROL. The stock computer can pull up to 7* timing under knock detection. This can save your motor as a PFC does not have knock control. In the event you just cannot take it anymore and must mod your car further, then I believe a PFC would be a good addition. I have no plans to further modify my 7 until I undergo a full build. I say this because I feel anything past a downpipe requires supporting mods. An intake or exhaust would cause a flow increase and be cause for a boost controller. EBC's are LOUSY at controlling sequential boost. Dual ball and spring MBCs appear to be the best route you can go if you absolutely MUST add another mod and CANNOT afford a PFC. The PFC would be my ideal choice for controlling sequential boost.
My next purchase for my 7 will be a fast reacting IAT sensor from wannaspeed. This will quell the nasty heat soak experienced by both a slow reacting sensor and the heat soaking abilities of the rotary. Its a drop in plug in sensor and should return much driveability in hot weather. I would also like to invest in a Ron Davis "mazdaspeed" aluminum radiator. It's drop in, proven, and keeps water temps down. Next would be a dual oil cooler set up [I have a touring model]. This will also reduce operating temps. Don't forget, oil is both a lubricating and a cooling fluid. I will either invest in the SBG kit [fantastic company with proven products] or I will piece together my own kit.
Everyday when I get home from work, the first thing I do is open the oven door [the hood] and let my engine bay cool off. This GREATLY increases the longevity of underhood components. I'm not afraid to drive 45 min to the mall and then sit in the parking lot for 5 min with my hood open before I go inside. Its habit now. I don't call it crazy, I call it smart. Let the heat out before it kills everything around it.
As much as I would LOVE to add additional mods to my 7, I have held back on doing so. My reasoning is as follows:
If I get an intake or exhaust, I'll boost spike. To fix that I need either dual MBCs or a PFC. $200-1000 just to put on an additional mod. Anything further then that requires fuel mods and tuning. More $$$.
The modding game is expensive. I just concentrating on keeping mine on the road and running how I want it to. It's plenty fast for me as it sits now.
I hope my advice can help someone with their 7.
Matt
I've yet to try the solenoids but I've heard great things. In my case I have boxes full of stock solenoids laying around so if something goes bad I have a replacement.
The stock ECU has it's merits no doubt and along with the things you mentioned it has a stellar idle. However I'm referencing my ideal power level for a street/DD FD and even if you only have a DP if there's a good tuner in your area you can get him to set up all kinds of safeties in relation to boost that will cut fuel on the PFC.
BOTTOMLINE: once you've experienced a well tuned 300 to 320 rwhp twin turbo FD there's just no replacement in my experience for the overall vibe. I also live close to a GREAT tuner (ray at PFS). I just had one of my cars tuned that had a decent map on it and it's not like the power really increased it's more about the overall full throttle, light throttle no throttle etc.... experience that a good tune can make and most importantly having a flat line safe AFR etc..... I'll post up the dyno when I get a chance.
09-08-12, 03:26 PM
#10
I've always been taught that your car and mods are only as good as your tune. All my maintenance discipline has trickled from my work on F-16s to my personal work on my car. Now if only I can get my brother's good tuning to rub off on me a bit :P My brother is well known in the late model GM/LS motor series community. I would love to do my own tuning but I'm thus far too chicken to risk a motor rebuild. Do you know of any good tuners further south?
Thank you for sharing your experience and guidelines for a good DD FD as well.
Matt
Thank you for sharing your experience and guidelines for a good DD FD as well.
Matt
09-08-12, 08:29 PM
#13
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Feel free to add in your thoughts I have thick skin
Yep sequential is a the only way to fly in my book but many would consider running a non sequential or going a single a necessary reliability addition or subtraction depending upon how you look at it hehe I'm just too fond of the twins for street use to ever consider a single turbo DD car.
Singles are the only way to fly at the track unless you have a REALLY well sorted twin car but even then at your 1st opportunity I'd go single. My track car is night and day compared to my street cars.
Singles are the only way to fly at the track unless you have a REALLY well sorted twin car but even then at your 1st opportunity I'd go single. My track car is night and day compared to my street cars.
09-08-12, 11:09 PM
#16
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If you want big power or anything over 350 go single.
09-08-12, 11:14 PM
#17
i thought this was daily driven cars as per the title.
yes, hard launches and quick throttle snaps on the track will eat up the transmission and differential. many daily driven cars in that range have to use a little common sense like throttle transitions and rolling pulls versus hard launches and dropping the clutch to engine brake then hammer the throttle.
one of my customers drives a 500whp FC, with the inferior FC engine and he has managed more than many FD owners get with less power and every time it comes out of the garage it uses every pony. he puts about 25k miles a year on it, not a garage queen by any means. almost every week i hear another kill story, and everyone in his vicinity knows the car, heh.
yes, hard launches and quick throttle snaps on the track will eat up the transmission and differential. many daily driven cars in that range have to use a little common sense like throttle transitions and rolling pulls versus hard launches and dropping the clutch to engine brake then hammer the throttle.
one of my customers drives a 500whp FC, with the inferior FC engine and he has managed more than many FD owners get with less power and every time it comes out of the garage it uses every pony. he puts about 25k miles a year on it, not a garage queen by any means. almost every week i hear another kill story, and everyone in his vicinity knows the car, heh.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 09-08-12 at 11:19 PM.
09-09-12, 02:42 AM
#19
Full Member
thx for the pointers. this is my first rotary and so far i love it, tho i do have some electrical issues. curious about the engine bay heating problem...i was considering buying a scoot style or similar vented hood, would this help with the problem?
09-09-12, 09:24 AM
#22
It is and it isn't much different from a regular car. It is in such a way that cars need regular maintenance. It isn't in the way that if you neglect the maintenance on a rotary, its going to bite you back. You also need to be more sensitive to the way it runs. If it starts running funny or doing anything crazy, don't assume its a good idea to go boost it to 10 psi and think it'll be ok. Just be wary of your car and how it runs. Its that simple. Fuel filter every 30k, plugs every 15k, oil every 2.5k, tranny and diff every year [by my standards at least].
I'd also like to add another regular maintenance item to check; your OMP oil nozzles. If the built in check valves fail, then oil will not be introduced to the combustion cavity under boost. Another reason to premix at least a half oz per gallon. To check if your nozzles are functional, one of the vacuum lines running to your primary turbo inlet pipe is the breather line for them. If you can blow through it but not suck, then your nozzles are ok. You MIGHT be able to hook up a mity vac to the line to test them, but DO NOT apply a ton of vacuum to it. The check valves are a rubber stopper type. If you suck on it too hard per say, it'll get stuck and you'll break the nozzles. I've been considering adding an external check valve to my oil nozzles in the event the internal ones fail. Adding the check valve as close to the nozzle as possible would be more beneficial, but according to my home rigged tests, the oil should not back track up the breather line so long as a functional check valve is in place.
Matt
I'd also like to add another regular maintenance item to check; your OMP oil nozzles. If the built in check valves fail, then oil will not be introduced to the combustion cavity under boost. Another reason to premix at least a half oz per gallon. To check if your nozzles are functional, one of the vacuum lines running to your primary turbo inlet pipe is the breather line for them. If you can blow through it but not suck, then your nozzles are ok. You MIGHT be able to hook up a mity vac to the line to test them, but DO NOT apply a ton of vacuum to it. The check valves are a rubber stopper type. If you suck on it too hard per say, it'll get stuck and you'll break the nozzles. I've been considering adding an external check valve to my oil nozzles in the event the internal ones fail. Adding the check valve as close to the nozzle as possible would be more beneficial, but according to my home rigged tests, the oil should not back track up the breather line so long as a functional check valve is in place.
Matt
Last edited by Mrmatt3465; 09-09-12 at 09:32 AM.
09-09-12, 09:29 AM
#23
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i thought this was daily driven cars as per the title.
yes, hard launches and quick throttle snaps on the track will eat up the transmission and differential. many daily driven cars in that range have to use a little common sense like throttle transitions and rolling pulls versus hard launches and dropping the clutch to engine brake then hammer the throttle.
one of my customers drives a 500whp FC, with the inferior FC engine and he has managed more than many FD owners get with less power and every time it comes out of the garage it uses every pony. he puts about 25k miles a year on it, not a garage queen by any means. almost every week i hear another kill story, and everyone in his vicinity knows the car, heh.
yes, hard launches and quick throttle snaps on the track will eat up the transmission and differential. many daily driven cars in that range have to use a little common sense like throttle transitions and rolling pulls versus hard launches and dropping the clutch to engine brake then hammer the throttle.
one of my customers drives a 500whp FC, with the inferior FC engine and he has managed more than many FD owners get with less power and every time it comes out of the garage it uses every pony. he puts about 25k miles a year on it, not a garage queen by any means. almost every week i hear another kill story, and everyone in his vicinity knows the car, heh.
This forum is the owners manual
Keeping things as dry as possible is even more important than letting the heat out. Just open the hood when you can.Of course I'm still slanging mad amounts of FD parts so let me know when need something
It's a good thing you have the m2 ecu with those mods hehe but once you pick up a PFC and take it to Ray for a tune you'll be smiling ear to ear
09-09-12, 10:05 AM
#24
09-09-12, 10:12 AM
#25
All out Track Freak!
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The only reason I installed a boost controller is to bypass the factory wastegate and pre-control actuators and lower the boost. With intake, smic, downpipe, HF cat, and a ported wastegate it's rock solid at 10 psi on stock sequentials. I rely on the M2 to deal with the additional airflow even if the pressure is stock and so far it seems to be working. The 3k rpm stutter is still a thorn in my side -- PFC some day; I'll let you know when I'm in the market
