Snook

iTrader: (12)

What is your estimate of the percentage of FDs that have had an engine swap?

I know this is hard to do but if everyone takes the sample size of cars they know in their area perhaps it can be a decent estimate.

I don't know why these swaps bother me so much but they really do, especially the V8 swap because the engine doesn't go with the theme of the car.. I've seen evo engine, skyine, 240, supra, ijz, v8. It's getting to be where every other FD is being hacked up.

Of course I don't mind a 3 rotor conversion.

This is out of control. Thoughts?

Supernaut

iTrader: (83)

I think the % is still low. The swap is easier these days but lets face it, most people looking on the forums have pretty light wallets.

Snook

iTrader: (12)

Maybe we identify every single swap then by vin, engine and location, like the CYM thread, but a negative connotation lol.

And to do it to such a nice and rare car too when there are literally millions of v8 sports cars on the roads argh. I almost don't hate the smaller high reving turbo engine swaps and its more compatible with the theme and driving style of the car.

JZW

iTrader: (5)

I honestly think there are more 13b's than v8 swaps.

Snook

iTrader: (12)

No S*** really? Of course there are. This is the exact point, that V8 swaps have become way too common where one has to stop and think what the percentages are. They are making up a significant percentage of the FDs on the road.

JZW

iTrader: (5)

My point is, it is expensive to do a v8 swap. So to answer your question, there aren't THAT many v8 swaps (which makes me question why you would even start this thread in the first place). That is just the most COMMON swap there is for the FD.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

There are 10 times more rotary FDs than v8. Just look at the cars for sale etc.....

The v8 swap is a practical move to achieve reliable power for lots of cars including the FD but IMO any piston engine bastardizes a rotary car.

I seriously doubt I'd have the love affair I have with this car if it came with an NA v8 from the factory. I likely would have moved on to corvettes, vipers etc.... As it is there is no replacement for the latest, greatest, coolest, high performance turbo rotary car. Nothing beats the feel of a turbo rotary from 6k to 8.5k rpms. It's a trip. Feels like taking off in a jet plane. Just smooth crazy thrust. Combine that with the thrills of the sequential turbos, BOV sounds, turbo sounds, exhaust notes under boost, under twin boost blah blah blah. The FD is a gourmet meal with all sorts of flavors with each bite you take which is pure bliss to me and completely satisfying in every way. A v8 not so much.

fjwheeler

I'm on the other side......I have a LS FD3. I am coming out of a 450WHP Forester XT that had an EFR turbo. It made all the power and torque and noise you speak of. However, I couldn't roll up on a C5 Z06 and know that I was going to win.

Turbo motors are great. However, the LS is a crazy good platform. I can wake up get in the car and drive it anywhere, get 30mpg, never have to downshift, and not worry if anything is going to break.

To me that's the important thing, I drive mine. All the time, if its not going to rain the car gets driven. I wouldn't be worried driving it anywhere. First time I saw the car I drove it 8 hours home without a hiccup.

Is the handling compromised? Perhaps, but I can't tell. I was at Deal's Gap not long ago with a few friends, and currently have blown coilovers and 235 tires, everyone was impressed by how well it did, and it felt fine steering wise.

So yes, it is a bastardization of the 7, but for me it's what I enjoy. I love the looks, and style of the car. People break their necks trying to see it and I can enjoy it more often because I never have to worry about the engine.

Snook

iTrader: (12)

Fritz I'm liking the metaphors you chose to describe the car. A lot of people don't think about the factor of the rotary engine being much smoother.

fjwheeler, I'll let your swap slide because you justified it. You said that you love the looks and style of the car and people break their necks to see it. Before that comment I was going to ask you why you just didnt get a C5 corvette for 10k or a c6 corvette for 20k. The rotary can be reliable believe it or not, if you took the time to mod it properly and got a reliable tune from a well known tuner I don't see where you would have a problem either for years and years, there are members that have put 50k+ miles on their cars just beating the hell out of them on the track with the same engine. As there are rotary engines running 70psi at the drag strip making 1000rwhp. Remember the NA rotary is completely reliable, maybe even more reliable than a NA piston engine. If you were to turbo your LS engine you would have the same issues as a rotary if you pushed the limits of the engine.

The v8 swap in a FD is like a modern version of a Cobra, definitely a sweet setup. However, because the car is so unique and rare, it's a shame that so many swaps are being done. If this was a miata we were talking about it wouldn't matter much as the car already had an average piston drivetrain and there are a million miatas. 10:1 is not that great of a ratio either. If nearly 10% are swapped over to v8 that's so considerable that it seems like it could have been a factory option to get a rotary or a v8, to an outsider.

I was on the phone with a guy selling a roller FD last night, the guy was completely clueless about what an FD is all about, and bought it from some punk kid that also had no idea about the car. These are becoming like kit cars, yeah you just pull out the motor and trans and find a camaro and swap it all over man. So redneck, so shitty and so average to such a unique and revolutionary platform it makes me want to hurl.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

The looks are one of the greatest and have and will continue to stand the test of time but you killed the style with that v8

No different than putting a v8 in a car like this:

Snook

iTrader: (12)

Not sure this deserves a reply. Again, you are making my point by saying "this is the most Common swap there is for the FD".
There are so many swaps being done that we can categorize swaps in order of popularity. I should not be able to rattle off 6 engines I know have been swapped into FDs

JZW

iTrader: (5)

Ok, so you only reply to one part of my statement. Yes, the v8 swap is the most common swap for the FD. That is something I agreed on with you, however, let me clarify what my point is AGAIN. The amount of 13b's compared to OTHER swaps make it almost non relevant. Also, you're making it seem like these people should be ashamed, yes most people here much prefer the rotary compared to other swaps. But everyone is inclined to their own opinion... which is something you clearly don't understand.

MattGold

iTrader: (107)

Why not? What's that actually telling you?

The way I see it is that the FD3S is a great PLATFORM. It's a sports car through and through. This isn't a 240SX, this isn't a fox body Mustang. It is a pure bred.

Now, ignore the fact that it comes from the factory with a rotary for a moment.

It still has exceptional exterior styling. 99Spec? Done.
It still has a cockpit-like, driver-centric interior.
It still has amazing weight balance.
It still has "on-rails" handling.
It still has lots of aftermarket support.
It still doesn't tip the scales, especially compared to anything modern.

There's only ONE achilles heel of the FD - and as much as it might pain us to admit it - we all know what it is.

So now, when you look at how good the RX-7 is even without an engine (isn't that how most exist now-a-days anyhow )... why WOULDN'T people swap other motors that are more reliable, make more power, etc.

It's really a quest for making the "perfect" car. I think the amount of swaps is a testament to how great *the car* really is.

JZW

iTrader: (5)

But if it isn't a rotary you should be ashamed! That is sarcasm in case you didn't catch it the first time Anyways, I have a 20b converted FD and also owned tons of 13b's.. I would never do a swap unless it was the 20b. However, even I realize that everyone has their own cup of tea. As posted above by a v8 FD owner, there are reasons to everything and I find it unique that people still swap these cars. I personally find it hilarious that the OP was at one point trying to find a 2jz swapped FD. Why all the hate now?

fjwheeler

I have love for the rotary, it is a crazy engine and can make a ton of power. I respect it and wouldn't mind having one eventually. But for me currently (28 years old, married, no kids) a V8 car fits the bill. That being said the reasons listed above is why I wanted the car. God knows I could go faster for a lot less money if I had just got a C5 FRC. Heads/Cam/Intake 450whp, 28mpg, AC, etc. But, and this is key, I didn't have a poster of the C5 FRC, I had a 7 above my bed. I have always loved the styling and driving experience. It is an absolutely gorgeous car. Mine is rough and it still looks better than 90% of the new cars out there.

(quote)It's really a quest for making the "perfect" car. I think the amount of swaps is a testament to how great *the car* really is.
(/quote)

This to me is key. I was talking with my friends about what car should be next. I have pined for a new GTR for a few years and they are beast, but don't elicit the same visceral feelings I get from driving my car. Let's talk money, I can put ~$10,000 into my 7 and have about as close to a perfect car as I can imagine. At that point $30k into it, looks AMAZING, drives AMAZING, handles AMAZING, and is still reliable 450hp driver.

To me that's what I want, a perfect car. The LS motor combined with the FD chassis, a good set of coilovers, fat tires, and nice ice cold AC will accomplish everything I want it to.

Snook

iTrader: (12)

That's what I'm after, whether it's non relevant, or whether it is 5 or 10 percent, which to me is very relevant.
And that is why there are a dozen sports cars put out on the market every single year, lots of choices. I do feel that people should be cautious to tear into a rare vehicle to the point where preserved examples are extinct. This is not a kit car or a 240 or a honda. Unfortunately the platform takes an educated owner to properly maintain and modify it and most people out there are clueless, so a swap it is. The market prices will drive these decisions, the v8 swap just makes sense for a lot of people financially that want a great looking reliable fast sports car, that don't care about the history and rarity of the car.

Yes I was looking for a 1j or 2j for a friend at that time. Now I am looking for a cheap FD for another friend, who I would teach how to maintain and encourage to keep the rotary, it's not that difficult. I have also owned and driven a ls1 FD which I bought from a friend who passed in a motorcycle accident, although I sold it because the driving experience was awful in comparison to my other 4FDs.

Bottom line is that the car is a different car when you swap out whatever motor you feel like into it. The same way it is for any other car, but multiplied my 1000 because of how rare the platform is and how few of the cars were produced for the US. It's a fact that there are a significant amount of FDs converted to V8s and in my opinion it is a shame that it has become so popular and affordable to do on such a rare vehicle. Yes I am upset with the quality of owners being lowered and engine swaps being done left and right.

JZW

iTrader: (5)

You have great points. However, how expensive is an FD? How expensive is an FD roller? The car is affordable and I think that is why you see people swapping these cars. In my opinion, not only is it affordable, but it is the best looking Japanese vehicle ever created. So as some people would say, the best bang for your buck. As stated above it is the best platform for a swap... and all the reasons were listed by MattGold.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

FD's + reliability mods is the way the to go. But nooo people wan't to smoke everything that is out on the road...


If people just left the god dammed engine alone they wouldn't be bitching about reliability.

MattGold

iTrader: (107)

THIS is also very true. Like most people with FDs, I've had a few. Each one was a learning experience.

With age, came an appreciation less for power and more for... I dunno, reliability? Stock-ish performance? Maybe I just wanted the car to have the intended personality?

Whatever the reason, my last car was focused on having as good of a version of "stock" as possible. Not some monster single making 500HP... but factory sequential twins, little more fuel, little more spark, and lot more cooling.

I still had some gremlins now and again, but all within "reasonable" of a 20 year old car.

Snook

iTrader: (12)

haha you mean I can't just put a t66 on there and boost to 15psi? what a piece of ****

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

I agree a good swap will usually set someone back 30k which is a lot of money to invest in a custom built 20 plus year old car so YES that says tons about how badly someone wants to roll around in this 20 year old chassis.

I always wonder how many v8 FD owners actually drove a really nice low mileage TT fd for any length of time. Sometimes it's not all about power.

I originally bought this car because it was simply the coolest looking little sports car I'd ever seen which resulted in me falling in love with the rotary. Modding the car and seeing huge differences with each mod because of how the rotary responds to boost and air flow both in and out. Driving the car and noticing huge differences with each susp mod because of the light weight responsive chassis.

This is a great car that grows on you more and more and the engine is a HUGE part of the ownership experience.

Again had it come with a v8 I likely would of become bored with it long ago and moved on to some other v8 car. Sometimes it's the battles and struggles that you go through and learn from that bring you the most satisfaction.

Lastly I'll repeat the power delivery of a rotary engine can't be duplicated and is extremely cool and addictive type of propulsion and often over looked aspect of this engine.




YEP

AND YEP!

Farkel

iTrader: (19)

I might be speaking too empathetically, but properly done V8 FDs could follow the same vein as what Shelby did with the AC Cobra - in a more modern format. Would you consider that car to be "hacked" up, too?

When undertaking a V8 swap, you have the pathway to immensely beef up and upgrade not only the engine, but the rest of the drivetrain.

This all comes down to subjectivity. I came from mostly low liter cars, so naturally aspirated V8s looked far more attractive to my palette. I love the FD for its chassis, body, and overall platform as Matt mentioned. I've been through sequential turbo rotaries and converted my car to a single turbo before swapping. To put it succinctly, the wow factor after going single turbo wore off relatively quickly for me. Post LS3 swap, I'm still amazed to this day at the power delivery and sheer brutality the car has gained.

If the FD came with a bulletproof 2JZ with a Getrag transmission like the Supra, I would have loved it even more. A blind affiliation to a single engine simply for its namesake and uniqueness is a preference of habit, not a preference of logic. Not to say that's wrong, you're entitled to your choices, but you should not condemn others for thinking with a different mindset.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

So true! Most times we fd owners are our own worst enemy. With my own NA 20b swap, all of my problems have been self inflicted.

Edit: OP, why not just start another thread with a poll asking members to click the engine option they have in their fd?

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

If I spent your money I'd be emphatic as well

Would love a ride in your car

Snook

iTrader: (12)

Edit: OP, why not just start another thread with a poll asking members to click the engine option they have in their fd?

Because that wouldnt capture all the owners with swapped FDs. Most are not on this forum they are on norotors etc and if they are they may not see the thread. If you are after sample size, for the reasons mentioned the sample size is skewed.