jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

Yes I know everyone recommends a Power FC and its suppose to be one of the best things we can do for our cars. I just cant justify spending the coin for one when I can be using that money elsewhere. For example my rear bushings need to be replaced. Im not rich so let me know what you would do in this situation. Ill weigh in pros/cons. My mods is a stock box with K&N filter, downpipe and catback.

Either stay with the stock ECU for now, or a remapped ECU. Downsides 3k Hesistation, cant go simplified sequential. Upsides provides enough fueling for me when I get a intake and intercooler.

Power FC-downsides is the price, I also dont like how it wont retard timing in a knock situation, Id rather have that safety margin. Im also not comfortable doing the minor tweaking outlined in this thread. https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...needed-841706/
I also dont plan on having a full tune done as theres no good tuners in the Bay Area.

Upsides is full tuneability of course. As well as doing simplified sequential. Ability to see all sensors and engine parameters on screen. Also a lot of the stock idle crap can be deleted as well?

Keep in mind I dont plan to get a AFR gauge or fast reacting intake temp right now. I also read that I need to get the MAP recalibrated from a datalogic. Basically im after all reliability and can care less about making huge power. My finals plans for the car is reliability and basic bolts ons. Im for sure staying twins as I love the response. Now you know my needs, what would be the best move? I just thought I can install Power FC and just go lol.

RotaryRX-007

The car runs with a stock ecu. You need bushings. Need > want. Get your suspension and whatever else is needed sorted before you worry about power. You need the car to handle what you are asking it to do before you ask it to do even more.

That being said, PFC is a good plug and play option to get a little more out of your stockish set up. There's newer, better and more powerful ecu options out there but don't worry about that now. Get the car reliable and suitable to handle more power and go from there.

moehler

iTrader: (12)

If your final plans for the car are reliability and not power, just stay on the stock ECU right now. You can basically do any non fuel/port mod you want as long as you keep it at 10psi with the stock ECU. It's a nice option if you can afford it, but there's no reason to spend beyond your means for it... A 20 year old FD will eat cash in so many other ways .

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

Your both right. I can think of 10 things that I can buy to better the FD besides the computer. I dont want to stay stock, I just wanted to do intercooler, intake, high flow cat, downpipe and catback and stay there. Still the issue of 3k Hesistation that I dont really like.

Right now I probably could be going over 10 PSI with my current mods. I have yet to find someone find a constant 12v source for my boost gauge. I tried one hot wire but its the curtesy light so my gauges lose power while cranking therefore no reading.

moehler

iTrader: (12)

Just tap into the center ashtray light for the boost gauge. If its electronic, and you need constant 12v, tap into the cig lighter or directly into the ignition (with an inline fuse). I think it's a B/W wire off the ignition, but definitely check the FSM to verify.

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

Im not sure the FSM even shows that? My gauges require 4 connections, yeah what a PITA. A ground that I used on the chassis, 12V switched that I used above the fuses, 12V constant that I need to find, and brightness Illumination wire thats connected to the Ashtray.

Any opinions on Pettit or M2 remapped ECU? Maybe I should run that since it provides extra fueling?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

the stock ECU is just as worthless. how many lost apex seals has the stock ECU saved? none. at least with the PFC you get a readout and can back off the throttle if the knock levels stand out.

i would put the money into the power FC before i dumped it into suspension, wheels, tires, paint, interior, etc.

the suspension may rattle and drive you nuts but i have never seen a strut fail simply due to worn bushings. i have seen engines fail due to lax perameters from the stock ECU.

other downside to the ECU however is you need a datalogit to do much with it, which adds about another $300 to the cost. but on the flipside, the FD actually has among the cheapest options for engine management. the FC for example needs a $300 patch harness for the PFC($900 PFC w/handcontroller, $300 patch harness and $300 datalogit= $1500), a $1200+ standalone AND a built harness otherwise. or pay someone else to tweak it every time you need to.

so i realize it's not for everyone, but neither are these cars.

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

Nice informative post Ben. I know I would need a datalogic to get the full benefit of the ecu. But for the current mods and goals/plans for the car shouldn't I be okay with the base map and fine tweaking from the commander?

Funkspectrum

iTrader: (5)

I'm running my PFC on a basemap. It seems to be fine for just tooling around. I don't go crazy with high-RPM runs though.

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

Yeah I rather spend the money mostly on making the engine perfect than suspension and exterior mods.

SA3R

I disagree repsectfully Ben. The stock ECU is not useless at retarding spark.

It does have a knock-retard function built in (thats what the knock sensor is there for, on the side of the block.) it goes something like:

Stock ECU senses knock above a predetermined threshold, in the correct harmonic frequency, and then if the knock is detected again within a specific time period (IIRC 10 second period) it will pull timing back a few degrees. The MX6 has a similar vintage of knock-retard also.

The Power FC simply acknowledges knock from the knock sensor. Then at a determined threshold, it flashes a light on the dashboard cluster at you. It does not pull timing. It does not retard. It merely flashes a light at you.

It sounds like the car is still stock enough not to warrant using a PFC.
It also sounds like you need to spend in other more critical areas to keep it reliable and decent. The original post started off with some good reasonable logic there. I'd stick to your original plan.

Not go "I WANNA GO FAST, I WANT A PFC, I WANT A BOV/BOOST CONTROLLER/SHINY BIG INTERCOOLER/POD AIR FILTERS/BIG EXHAUSTS COMING OUT OF EVERYWHERE!!!" *ahem* and then two weeks later, after subjecting a poor old stock engine to all this chromed racing unnecessary stress, it goes bang, and then you're going to be really out of pocket for a rebuild, because you spent what you had on uneeded racing parts, and the car sits dead in the garage.

Fix the bushes, keep it simple and go big later. Enjoy it and drive it now

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

the reality is that the stock knock retard won't do much good before engine damage is already present.

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

The bushings will get fixed, that was just a example. Im not too worried about it since it just clunks stopping and doesnt help with engine reliability. Bushings will be done after the Power FC if I get one.

I forgot to add that I am running a OMP block off kit with full premix. The OMP is plugged in to keep the ECU happy. My plan is to run synthentic oil in the engine. I also do want to get rid of the stock airbox because everytime I have to take that thing off and put it back on im cursing constantly at it.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

the reality is that the stock knock retard won't do much good before engine damage is already present.

The factory knock prevention really does work when operating in factory parameters.

I get bad gas all the time where I live.

My FD at 10psi on stock ecu just hesitates until I add enough octane boost and/or fuel water remover. I have been doing this for almost 4 years now with my mostly auto-x FD. I did auto-x and drag events where it hesitated all day because I filled up that morning and wasn't able to get the fuel sorted.

My FC with Haltech E6K on 14psi boost just blows up. Been doing that for over 10 years and probably 5 motors lost to detonation damage. I recently added knock retard to the Haltech E6K and when I got bad gas the morning of an auto-x it did hesitate several times from pulling timing as it cracked the rear plate, so I do understand your point of view.

270hp worth of boom at 10psi with factory tuned knock retard seems to work well, 380hp worth of boom at 14psi with GM tuned knock retard did pull timing as it broke the motor.

On my FD I am running downpipe, highflow cat, catback, efeni Y-pipe and IC with boost controllers on wastegate and precontrol to get 10psi and a fuel pump. It does lean way out into low 12:1AFRs compared to stock 9:1AFRs due to the change in volumetric efficiency so I try to play it safe and run a bottle (or two or three when I get bad gas) of Lucas Octane Boost with a tank of gas.

To the OP, you will not be able to change from the stock airbox with exhaust mods or you will get boost creep above 10psi and fuel cut. Free flowing exhaust will do much more for the health of your rotary than free flowing intake to the turbos with stock exhaust to keep boost from creeping. Another advantage is it looks stock under the hood.

Heed the fuel cut and find ways to reduce max boost if it occurs. Before the "highflow" cat I had a resonated mid pipe and I had to put a 2" reducer gasket at the midpipe/catback flange to keep it below fuel cut.

I also recently had to replace my bushings and what an amazing difference it made in the driving experience, so much more precise at auto-x, less wandering on the roads (especially under braking) and less clunks.

If I want a crap handling car with a bunch of power I fix/drive my built FC, what I appreciate about the FD is how refined the handling and everything else is.

I have lots of mods in mind for my FD and PnP ECU is still a ways off and Power FC doesn't make the list of ECUs to consider.

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

Still on the fence about both. I rather not stay stock completely. Anyone have opinions on a m2 or Pettit ecu? Still get the knock feature and can go up to 14 psi. I believe I can probably run with that for a while until I actually need full tuneability from a power fc.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

I like the power FC , the extra information you gain from the commander alone I think is worth it . then you have all the little fun things you can do with it.

Intake air temps for example , when the intercooler heatsoaks your knock will go up , atleast mine does by alot if I cant floor my car when my IAT are at 60C But how do you know your IAT are at 60C? you dont .

what abotu water temp? the water temp in the PFC helps you know how the car is running . and helps you prevent the car from overheating tomuch o na hot summer day in traffic ,

or what about Boost . do you ALWAYS keep an eye on your boost gauge .. you may be spiking and not even know it . the PFC lets you know the max boost you achieve

somany little things , sure its not cheap . but I think its WELL wORTH it .

its not for everyone but I think for me the PFC is an indispensable tool for reliability .

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

I think I would love to have one, I just don't feel comfortable doing those small minor tweaks outlined in that thread I posted in the OP. Also is it a complete must that I have a AFR and boost controller right now?

I do actually want to get rid of my gauges, I really hate clutter around my dash and want it to be as clean as possible.

Tem120

iTrader: (5)

Umm the PFC has a boost controller intigrated into it , its a bit difficult to use but it works .

and an AFR yes.. this is a BIG yes ..


Also the pre programmed maps . run rich so I dont know if your FD is just a weekend car , or if you put alot of miles on it , But being able to tune your cruising AFR's has helped quite a bit in the MPG wars

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I do actually want to get rid of my gauges, I really hate clutter around my dash and want it to be as clean as possible.

Yes, thats where I am at too. My FC is cluttered up with AFR, Boost, Oil Temp, Front Rotor EGT, Rear Rotor EGT and the stock gauges.

For the FD I just want simple stock gauges plus boost gauge and keep it reliable and tuned well enough I don't have to look at anything.

Thats why I hesitate to ditch the stock ECU that gives you stock reliability when used within stock parameters. When I do go PnP ECU I would like to use something more up to date than the PowerFC. The Adaptronic is looking good, or if someone adapts the new 3rd gen AEM to PnP for the FD as they do for the 2nd gen AEM ECU.

Gilgamesh

maybe im looking at this wrong... but a power FC costs alot less than intake/exhaust/intercooler + chip + blown motor.

and as far as getting bad gas and racing... buy containers of your own gas and only use it when you go racing. $100+ a tank is cheaper than 5 blown motors.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

That's only if it's properly tuned. I will say that I've seen far more blown motors from people either using untuned or improperly tuned PFC's than re-chipped ECU's.

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

That's what I see on the forums as well. And mostly because its a bad tune or untuned like you said, and other half I believe is the no knock retard like the stock ecu. I can only imagine people aren't looking at their commander constantly, and since our CEL doesn't flash on high knock situations since its connected to exhaust overheat light then I'm sure people blew motors that way.

Now I have been reading threads about water injection and that would probably create that extra bit of safety since it reduces knock. But then if I go this route looks like my fd Is always going to look stock until I have the suspension, drivetrain and engine where I want it.

RENESISFD

iTrader: (13)

I think you should take care of what the car needs.

The stock ECU is good. It controls all functions of the car well. The motor does not blow up because of the stock ecu. It blows up because people do too many mods or have improperly maintained the peripheral systems of the car.

OP, by reading your posts it seems you do not have too much money to spend on the car, because of this, you should stick to reliability mods and keep your power mods to a minimum. More can go wrong when installing a PFC than just keeping the stock ecu and keeping to boost under control.

jayscoobs

iTrader: (8)

It's not that I don't have much money. It's just that mods come slow. I can't dump 4k at a time like a lot of people here. I'm just starting my career.

RENESISFD

iTrader: (13)

^ I did not say you don't have money. I just said you don't have a ton to spend on the car. Everyone has different priorities.