"Mazda CEO Rules Out Rotary-Powered Sports Car"
11-14-14, 08:06 AM
#51
Senior Member
Or a Nisaan 240z retro model.
I would *love* for Nissan to do a "new" 240Z: a small, low-slung, simple, lightweight, cab-rearward (as opposed to the big, heavy 54F/46R 370Z) economical 2-seat rwd sports car. But IMO they should lay off the retro styling. Make something gorgeous in its own right, not hackneyed styling designed to evoke nostalgia. The FD didn't pay styling tribute to the original RX-7, and IMO that turned out for the best
All the design coming out of Japan now is just futuristic crap. Why didn't the Frs come out as a modern retro version of the 70's Celica?
Don't get me wrong, I *like* '70s Celicas and Supras. But I don't need any new car to try to look like them or to have similarly archaic underpinnings...
The FR-S/BRZ are hardly what I'd call "futuristic". They are, in fact, a throwback to the S13 240SX, precisely a modern version of that car, but with much better styling (I loved and owned an S13 and an S14). I just wish they'd make a cab-rearward sports car out of the platform with better front/rear balance (55/45 is OK for a modestly-powered rwd 2+2, but not exactly sports car territory).
Look at the 80's and 90's design for the Mustangs and look at them now. They just get it. Going retro is good and it sells.
I wish the Japanese car makers had more *****. And I wish Mazda was one of them. Who would not want a brand new 929 coupe?
11-14-14, 09:20 AM
#52
Jeez, guys. Of COURSE they won't - can't - build another rotary.
This is a world where even the proud BMW is risking their reputation by letting their inline 6 die off in favor of more efficient turbo fours. It's a world of ever-tightening emissions laws and fleet efficiency standards that are already legislated to make greater demands in the next few years. But you guys want Mazda - little, barely hanging on Mazda - to spend the significant engineering resources it doesnt have to try - yet again - to make a reliable and efficient rotary, with only a low-volume, low-profit sportscar platform to recoup that investment.
Mazda ALREADY resurrected the rotary. It was the Renesis and the RX-8 and it failed. Recall that the PR around that time was all about how they finally figured out how to bring the rotary into the modern era, with lowered emissions and impoved reliability. What it actually got them was no power, mpgs in the teens, and a special extended warranty program for all the engines they had to replace before 100k.
I like mine too, but the rotary engine is not a thing anymore. Its a historical curiosity like two-strokes in cars or vacuum-driven accessories. It cannot compete in emissions, longevity, mpgs, or cost with small turbo piston engines, and certainly not with little Mazda trying by itself to keep with the R&D that the entire rest of the car industry is pouring into small piston engines and hybrid tech.
This is a world where even the proud BMW is risking their reputation by letting their inline 6 die off in favor of more efficient turbo fours. It's a world of ever-tightening emissions laws and fleet efficiency standards that are already legislated to make greater demands in the next few years. But you guys want Mazda - little, barely hanging on Mazda - to spend the significant engineering resources it doesnt have to try - yet again - to make a reliable and efficient rotary, with only a low-volume, low-profit sportscar platform to recoup that investment.
Mazda ALREADY resurrected the rotary. It was the Renesis and the RX-8 and it failed. Recall that the PR around that time was all about how they finally figured out how to bring the rotary into the modern era, with lowered emissions and impoved reliability. What it actually got them was no power, mpgs in the teens, and a special extended warranty program for all the engines they had to replace before 100k.
I like mine too, but the rotary engine is not a thing anymore. Its a historical curiosity like two-strokes in cars or vacuum-driven accessories. It cannot compete in emissions, longevity, mpgs, or cost with small turbo piston engines, and certainly not with little Mazda trying by itself to keep with the R&D that the entire rest of the car industry is pouring into small piston engines and hybrid tech.
11-14-14, 09:50 AM
#53
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Jeez, guys. Of COURSE they won't - can't - build another rotary.
This is a world where even the proud BMW is risking their reputation by letting their inline 6 die off in favor of more efficient turbo fours. It's a world of ever-tightening emissions laws and fleet efficiency standards that are already legislated to make greater demands in the next few years. But you guys want Mazda - little, barely hanging on Mazda - to spend the significant engineering resources it doesnt have to try - yet again - to make a reliable and efficient rotary, with only a low-volume, low-profit sportscar platform to recoup that investment.
Mazda ALREADY resurrected the rotary. It was the Renesis and the RX-8 and it failed. Recall that the PR around that time was all about how they finally figured out how to bring the rotary into the modern era, with lowered emissions and impoved reliability. What it actually got them was no power, mpgs in the teens, and a special extended warranty program for all the engines they had to replace before 100k.
I like mine too, but the rotary engine is not a thing anymore. Its a historical curiosity like two-strokes in cars or vacuum-driven accessories. It cannot compete in emissions, longevity, mpgs, or cost with small turbo piston engines, and certainly not with little Mazda trying by itself to keep with the R&D that the entire rest of the car industry is pouring into small piston engines and hybrid tech.
This is a world where even the proud BMW is risking their reputation by letting their inline 6 die off in favor of more efficient turbo fours. It's a world of ever-tightening emissions laws and fleet efficiency standards that are already legislated to make greater demands in the next few years. But you guys want Mazda - little, barely hanging on Mazda - to spend the significant engineering resources it doesnt have to try - yet again - to make a reliable and efficient rotary, with only a low-volume, low-profit sportscar platform to recoup that investment.
Mazda ALREADY resurrected the rotary. It was the Renesis and the RX-8 and it failed. Recall that the PR around that time was all about how they finally figured out how to bring the rotary into the modern era, with lowered emissions and impoved reliability. What it actually got them was no power, mpgs in the teens, and a special extended warranty program for all the engines they had to replace before 100k.
I like mine too, but the rotary engine is not a thing anymore. Its a historical curiosity like two-strokes in cars or vacuum-driven accessories. It cannot compete in emissions, longevity, mpgs, or cost with small turbo piston engines, and certainly not with little Mazda trying by itself to keep with the R&D that the entire rest of the car industry is pouring into small piston engines and hybrid tech.
11-14-14, 09:55 AM
#54
Agreed on rotary technical challenges, although I still say that part of the problem was that they put the thing in a type of vehicle (RX8) that people would expect to be cheap and practical. You take it out of the practical bucket, and put it in the pure passion bucket, the lens is different.
Maybe Mazda is little and barely hanging on because they aren't doing anything. I've heard it said that people don't just buy what you sell, they buy what you stand for. What does Mazda stand for? Why don't I just buy a Toyota?
To the above point on "retro", I like some of it, but wasn't suggesting that "full retro" is the answer to everyone's problems, but having and trading on heritage is. Look at BMWs. They've evolved, sure, but they look like BMWs and you know what that is.
I think retro is a bit of a crutch design wise, but it's better than boring. If you're going to go with a design departure, it should kick ***. Look at the FD. Doesn't really look like an FB or FC at all. Does anyone care?
Maybe Mazda is little and barely hanging on because they aren't doing anything. I've heard it said that people don't just buy what you sell, they buy what you stand for. What does Mazda stand for? Why don't I just buy a Toyota?
To the above point on "retro", I like some of it, but wasn't suggesting that "full retro" is the answer to everyone's problems, but having and trading on heritage is. Look at BMWs. They've evolved, sure, but they look like BMWs and you know what that is.
I think retro is a bit of a crutch design wise, but it's better than boring. If you're going to go with a design departure, it should kick ***. Look at the FD. Doesn't really look like an FB or FC at all. Does anyone care?
11-14-14, 10:03 AM
#55
Rotary Enthusiast
What happened to the hydrogen rotary? It's been around for a while now.
Also, I'd love to see Mazda bring back a lighter-weight version of the Eunos Cosmo (JC), with a shiftable transmission.
Also, I'd love to see Mazda bring back a lighter-weight version of the Eunos Cosmo (JC), with a shiftable transmission.
11-14-14, 10:39 AM
#57
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Look at BMWs. They've evolved, sure, but they look like BMWs and you know what that is.
which is good, because without the i3/i8, i would say BMW has completely lost its way (if it ever had one), the current normal cars look like 2004 honda accords with M badges all over them, and big wheels, and loud exhausts, and stuff; tacky. they sell like hotcakes.
11-14-14, 11:09 AM
#58
The point is, "what people will buy" is influenced by many things beside the rational qualities of it—especially when it comes to discretionary purchases like specialty vehicles. That's branding—it is a blend of rational and emotional qualities—and it's no small part of how Porsche sells those vehicles.
I'll agree that all the German luxury marques have gone off the plot a bit for me. Used to be they always referenced the understated "teutonic" style in German cars that had a sort of "old money" feel... and they've definitely shifted to a flashier Nouveau riche style.
Last edited by ptrhahn; 11-14-14 at 11:13 AM.
11-14-14, 11:11 AM
#59
@Zdan
We agree to disagree. I am personally a huge fan of retro design. I guess it reminds me of a time when cars were actually cars. Times when you would open a hood and see an engine, and not a bunch of plastic. I guess I'm more traditional when it comes to car design.
Today I see no difference, in terms of design, between a Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Mazda...etc. their line-ups look the same to me.
As ptrhahn says about the BMW...even though years have passed you still see the BMW in their design. Or look at Audi, you know its an Audi when you see one.
You guys in the states do not have Alfa-Romeo's (cept the old spider and the 4c,8c). Alfa is one of the car makers that I have huge respect for in terms of design. They understand what is good modern design, while keeping the consistency of brand identification.
The day when I can't differentiate between a Korean car maker and Japanese car maker...is the day I lose respect for both, in terms of design.
When you see a an Audi you know its an Audi, same goes for BMW, Alfa etc...
That's why I love the retro design. If you cant come up with something that defines you as a brand and differentiates you as a car maker...go back to the basics
I guess I went way of topic here...sorry about that. I guess I accept the fact that the rotary as we know is dead. The 13b is dead, long live the 13b! All I can hope for now is a decently designed Japanese RWD piston car that reminds me of the better days. But not really, I have an FD so who cares
We agree to disagree. I am personally a huge fan of retro design. I guess it reminds me of a time when cars were actually cars. Times when you would open a hood and see an engine, and not a bunch of plastic. I guess I'm more traditional when it comes to car design.
Today I see no difference, in terms of design, between a Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Mazda...etc. their line-ups look the same to me.
As ptrhahn says about the BMW...even though years have passed you still see the BMW in their design. Or look at Audi, you know its an Audi when you see one.
You guys in the states do not have Alfa-Romeo's (cept the old spider and the 4c,8c). Alfa is one of the car makers that I have huge respect for in terms of design. They understand what is good modern design, while keeping the consistency of brand identification.
The day when I can't differentiate between a Korean car maker and Japanese car maker...is the day I lose respect for both, in terms of design.
When you see a an Audi you know its an Audi, same goes for BMW, Alfa etc...
That's why I love the retro design. If you cant come up with something that defines you as a brand and differentiates you as a car maker...go back to the basics
I guess I went way of topic here...sorry about that. I guess I accept the fact that the rotary as we know is dead. The 13b is dead, long live the 13b! All I can hope for now is a decently designed Japanese RWD piston car that reminds me of the better days. But not really, I have an FD so who cares
11-14-14, 11:28 AM
#60
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The point is, "what people will buy" is influenced by many things beside the rational qualities of it—especially when it comes to discretionary purchases like specialty vehicles. That's branding—it is a blend of rational and emotional qualities—and it's no small part of how Porsche sells those vehicles.
I'll agree that all the German luxury marques have gone off the plot a bit for me. Used to be they always referenced the understated "teutonic" style in German cars that had a sort of "old money" feel... and they've definitely shifted to a flashier Nouveau riche style.
I'll agree that all the German luxury marques have gone off the plot a bit for me. Used to be they always referenced the understated "teutonic" style in German cars that had a sort of "old money" feel... and they've definitely shifted to a flashier Nouveau riche style.
Pete is in marketing so don't f#ck with him. That is some brilliant speak right there
Bottomline if you don't produce cool cars you are just another run of the mill car co and the only thing that will matter is cost and economy/mpg and that's not a war mazda will win because honda and toyota can do it cheaper or make a bigger profit.
I don't think Mazda will be in business if they continue competing in the eco box against eco box game.
Yes they are doing great now but times are good relatively speaking
11-14-14, 11:36 AM
#61
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The point is, "what people will buy" is influenced by many things beside the rational qualities of it—especially when it comes to discretionary purchases like specialty vehicles. That's branding—it is a blend of rational and emotional qualities—and it's no small part of how Porsche sells those vehicles.
I'll agree that all the German luxury marques have gone off the plot a bit for me. Used to be they always referenced the understated "teutonic" style in German cars that had a sort of "old money" feel... and they've definitely shifted to a flashier Nouveau riche style.
I'll agree that all the German luxury marques have gone off the plot a bit for me. Used to be they always referenced the understated "teutonic" style in German cars that had a sort of "old money" feel... and they've definitely shifted to a flashier Nouveau riche style.
11-14-14, 01:55 PM
#62
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I doubt they've abandoned the rotary completely, they must still have some small hidden R&D facility with limited resources and engineers allocated to it.
But as we all know, the strict emissions currently bar entry for the rotary engine. Maybe at some point the 16X or whatever may have been able to pass, but these emission requirements are being revised constantly based on what a piston or electric car can do.
The rotary has it's advantages clearly, but emissions isn't one of them. Maybe they are waiting for some breakthrough either in the rotary engine technology or catalytic converter/exhaust system which isn't available atm.
If they find a way, I'm sure they'll release a rotary. Maybe it's just not possible now, as sad as it may be. But we all do have RX-7's for now : )
(Granted I haven't seen or drove my FD for just about 4 years now, except the drive between the mechanic and the paint shop -- and hopefully soon, the drive back to the mechanic lol)
But as we all know, the strict emissions currently bar entry for the rotary engine. Maybe at some point the 16X or whatever may have been able to pass, but these emission requirements are being revised constantly based on what a piston or electric car can do.
The rotary has it's advantages clearly, but emissions isn't one of them. Maybe they are waiting for some breakthrough either in the rotary engine technology or catalytic converter/exhaust system which isn't available atm.
If they find a way, I'm sure they'll release a rotary. Maybe it's just not possible now, as sad as it may be. But we all do have RX-7's for now : )
(Granted I haven't seen or drove my FD for just about 4 years now, except the drive between the mechanic and the paint shop -- and hopefully soon, the drive back to the mechanic lol)
11-14-14, 06:42 PM
#63
Jeez, guys. Of COURSE they won't - can't - build another rotary.
This is a world where even the proud BMW is risking their reputation by letting their inline 6 die off in favor of more efficient turbo fours. It's a world of ever-tightening emissions laws and fleet efficiency standards that are already legislated to make greater demands in the next few years. But you guys want Mazda - little, barely hanging on Mazda - to spend the significant engineering resources it doesnt have to try - yet again - to make a reliable and efficient rotary, with only a low-volume, low-profit sportscar platform to recoup that investment.
Mazda ALREADY resurrected the rotary. It was the Renesis and the RX-8 and it failed. Recall that the PR around that time was all about how they finally figured out how to bring the rotary into the modern era, with lowered emissions and impoved reliability. What it actually got them was no power, mpgs in the teens, and a special extended warranty program for all the engines they had to replace before 100k.
I like mine too, but the rotary engine is not a thing anymore. Its a historical curiosity like two-strokes in cars or vacuum-driven accessories. It cannot compete in emissions, longevity, mpgs, or cost with small turbo piston engines, and certainly not with little Mazda trying by itself to keep with the R&D that the entire rest of the car industry is pouring into small piston engines and hybrid tech.
This is a world where even the proud BMW is risking their reputation by letting their inline 6 die off in favor of more efficient turbo fours. It's a world of ever-tightening emissions laws and fleet efficiency standards that are already legislated to make greater demands in the next few years. But you guys want Mazda - little, barely hanging on Mazda - to spend the significant engineering resources it doesnt have to try - yet again - to make a reliable and efficient rotary, with only a low-volume, low-profit sportscar platform to recoup that investment.
Mazda ALREADY resurrected the rotary. It was the Renesis and the RX-8 and it failed. Recall that the PR around that time was all about how they finally figured out how to bring the rotary into the modern era, with lowered emissions and impoved reliability. What it actually got them was no power, mpgs in the teens, and a special extended warranty program for all the engines they had to replace before 100k.
I like mine too, but the rotary engine is not a thing anymore. Its a historical curiosity like two-strokes in cars or vacuum-driven accessories. It cannot compete in emissions, longevity, mpgs, or cost with small turbo piston engines, and certainly not with little Mazda trying by itself to keep with the R&D that the entire rest of the car industry is pouring into small piston engines and hybrid tech.
You guys should read this, then read it again, and after you start thinking "oh but there is probably some small budget somewhere" and "its going to happen again because I like rotaries so much", then read it again.
The automotive world has moved on. Emmissions are tighter, and HP is higher than ever. One company doing the R&D on a totally different engine has zero chance of ever keeping up.
If you guys want to invest in hopes and dreams, youd better start putting those hopes towards "I hope someone starts selling aftermarket housings and rotors", or at least that someone is able to refurb them to new condition.
11-14-14, 10:01 PM
#64
Rotary Enthusiast
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Let's look at the options.
6'2" 220lbs.
What cars are available for me to drive that would be a sports car, a good baseline for modifying that is/are affordable that separates itself from others (Unique), robust, etc.
Subaru STI? YUCK, looks like an EVO as well.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roada...nd-wrx-sti.jpg
Mits Evo YUCK.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ncer_EVO_X.jpg
Subaru BRZ YUCK, cheap looking.
http://media.caranddriver.com/images...-s-429x262.jpg
toyota FRS
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...USA-100-57.jpg
Nissan 370Z
http://motorinfo.org/images/nissan-370z-11.jpg
I don't mind the Honda s2000 looks but the car is too small. The miata is the same way.
new cars appeal to the groups that have money and the price points. The middle ground people are left out because the middle class is getting gutted. We have those who have, who can afford the great sports cars in the 100K+ category, and we have the "cheap cars" that appeal to the younger gen who can't afford much.
We have the older groups who have money buying corvettes and camaro's because that is what they grew up and have memories to. That is why people at my work drive mustangs, both old and new. American companies have their heart and soul for those who have the memories with these cars in high school.
The other cars like the ones above don't have a soul or heart, they were developed to sell, I get that, but they are soooo yuck and ugly, and cheap, etc.
Everytime I see most of these cars I focus on how cheesy these cars are.
look at that stupid rear wannabe diffuser.
http://image.motortrend.com/f/tuners...amaro-rear.jpg
Oh look another cheesy diffuser wannabe
http://image.motortrend.com/f/347515...e-quarters.jpg
no way, not another
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....u-brz-rear.jpg
cheesy cheese cars.....laughing stock.
No way, 2015 subaru wrx joining in on the cheese
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...x-rear-end.jpg
gotta join in on the cheese Mitsubishi
http://image.motortrend.com/f/featur...ee-quarter.jpg
I am sure there is more cheese on other cars.
Just to get those images out of your mind. when done right.
http://www.gaddidekho.com/wp-content...-Rear-Pose.jpg
This car does look amazing though.
http://jonsibal.com/blog/wp-content/...F599XX_ac1.jpg
6'2" 220lbs.
What cars are available for me to drive that would be a sports car, a good baseline for modifying that is/are affordable that separates itself from others (Unique), robust, etc.
Subaru STI? YUCK, looks like an EVO as well.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roada...nd-wrx-sti.jpg
Mits Evo YUCK.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ncer_EVO_X.jpg
Subaru BRZ YUCK, cheap looking.
http://media.caranddriver.com/images...-s-429x262.jpg
toyota FRS
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...USA-100-57.jpg
Nissan 370Z
http://motorinfo.org/images/nissan-370z-11.jpg
I don't mind the Honda s2000 looks but the car is too small. The miata is the same way.
new cars appeal to the groups that have money and the price points. The middle ground people are left out because the middle class is getting gutted. We have those who have, who can afford the great sports cars in the 100K+ category, and we have the "cheap cars" that appeal to the younger gen who can't afford much.
We have the older groups who have money buying corvettes and camaro's because that is what they grew up and have memories to. That is why people at my work drive mustangs, both old and new. American companies have their heart and soul for those who have the memories with these cars in high school.
The other cars like the ones above don't have a soul or heart, they were developed to sell, I get that, but they are soooo yuck and ugly, and cheap, etc.
Everytime I see most of these cars I focus on how cheesy these cars are.
look at that stupid rear wannabe diffuser.
http://image.motortrend.com/f/tuners...amaro-rear.jpg
Oh look another cheesy diffuser wannabe
http://image.motortrend.com/f/347515...e-quarters.jpg
no way, not another
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....u-brz-rear.jpg
cheesy cheese cars.....laughing stock.
No way, 2015 subaru wrx joining in on the cheese
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...x-rear-end.jpg
gotta join in on the cheese Mitsubishi
http://image.motortrend.com/f/featur...ee-quarter.jpg
I am sure there is more cheese on other cars.
Just to get those images out of your mind. when done right.
http://www.gaddidekho.com/wp-content...-Rear-Pose.jpg
This car does look amazing though.
http://jonsibal.com/blog/wp-content/...F599XX_ac1.jpg
11-15-14, 10:06 AM
#65
All out Track Freak!
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You guys should read this, then read it again, and after you start thinking "oh but there is probably some small budget somewhere" and "its going to happen again because I like rotaries so much", then read it again.
The automotive world has moved on. Emmissions are tighter, and HP is higher than ever. One company doing the R&D on a totally different engine has zero chance of ever keeping up.
If you guys want to invest in hopes and dreams, youd better start putting those hopes towards "I hope someone starts selling aftermarket housings and rotors", or at least that someone is able to refurb them to new condition.
The automotive world has moved on. Emmissions are tighter, and HP is higher than ever. One company doing the R&D on a totally different engine has zero chance of ever keeping up.
If you guys want to invest in hopes and dreams, youd better start putting those hopes towards "I hope someone starts selling aftermarket housings and rotors", or at least that someone is able to refurb them to new condition.
So effing true
I hate you for reminding me of the truth, you sick bastard
I'm not worried about housings, I have 3 engines ready to go LOL
Let's look at the options.
6'2" 220lbs.
What cars are available for me to drive that would be a sports car, a good baseline for modifying that is/are affordable that separates itself from others (Unique), robust, etc.
Subaru STI? YUCK, looks like an EVO as well.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roada...nd-wrx-sti.jpg
Mits Evo YUCK.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ncer_EVO_X.jpg
Subaru BRZ YUCK, cheap looking.
http://media.caranddriver.com/images...-s-429x262.jpg
toyota FRS
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...USA-100-57.jpg
Nissan 370Z
http://motorinfo.org/images/nissan-370z-11.jpg
I don't mind the Honda s2000 looks but the car is too small. The miata is the same way.
new cars appeal to the groups that have money and the price points. The middle ground people are left out because the middle class is getting gutted. We have those who have, who can afford the great sports cars in the 100K+ category, and we have the "cheap cars" that appeal to the younger gen who can't afford much.
We have the older groups who have money buying corvettes and camaro's because that is what they grew up and have memories to. That is why people at my work drive mustangs, both old and new. American companies have their heart and soul for those who have the memories with these cars in high school.
The other cars like the ones above don't have a soul or heart, they were developed to sell, I get that, but they are soooo yuck and ugly, and cheap, etc.
Everytime I see most of these cars I focus on how cheesy these cars are.
look at that stupid rear wannabe diffuser.
http://image.motortrend.com/f/tuners...amaro-rear.jpg
Oh look another cheesy diffuser wannabe
http://image.motortrend.com/f/347515...e-quarters.jpg
no way, not another
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....u-brz-rear.jpg
cheesy cheese cars.....laughing stock.
No way, 2015 subaru wrx joining in on the cheese
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...x-rear-end.jpg
gotta join in on the cheese Mitsubishi
http://image.motortrend.com/f/featur...ee-quarter.jpg
I am sure there is more cheese on other cars.
Just to get those images out of your mind. when done right.
http://www.gaddidekho.com/wp-content...-Rear-Pose.jpg
This car does look amazing though.
http://jonsibal.com/blog/wp-content/...F599XX_ac1.jpg
6'2" 220lbs.
What cars are available for me to drive that would be a sports car, a good baseline for modifying that is/are affordable that separates itself from others (Unique), robust, etc.
Subaru STI? YUCK, looks like an EVO as well.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roada...nd-wrx-sti.jpg
Mits Evo YUCK.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ncer_EVO_X.jpg
Subaru BRZ YUCK, cheap looking.
http://media.caranddriver.com/images...-s-429x262.jpg
toyota FRS
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...USA-100-57.jpg
Nissan 370Z
http://motorinfo.org/images/nissan-370z-11.jpg
I don't mind the Honda s2000 looks but the car is too small. The miata is the same way.
new cars appeal to the groups that have money and the price points. The middle ground people are left out because the middle class is getting gutted. We have those who have, who can afford the great sports cars in the 100K+ category, and we have the "cheap cars" that appeal to the younger gen who can't afford much.
We have the older groups who have money buying corvettes and camaro's because that is what they grew up and have memories to. That is why people at my work drive mustangs, both old and new. American companies have their heart and soul for those who have the memories with these cars in high school.
The other cars like the ones above don't have a soul or heart, they were developed to sell, I get that, but they are soooo yuck and ugly, and cheap, etc.
Everytime I see most of these cars I focus on how cheesy these cars are.
look at that stupid rear wannabe diffuser.
http://image.motortrend.com/f/tuners...amaro-rear.jpg
Oh look another cheesy diffuser wannabe
http://image.motortrend.com/f/347515...e-quarters.jpg
no way, not another
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog....u-brz-rear.jpg
cheesy cheese cars.....laughing stock.
No way, 2015 subaru wrx joining in on the cheese
http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadte...x-rear-end.jpg
gotta join in on the cheese Mitsubishi
http://image.motortrend.com/f/featur...ee-quarter.jpg
I am sure there is more cheese on other cars.
Just to get those images out of your mind. when done right.
http://www.gaddidekho.com/wp-content...-Rear-Pose.jpg
This car does look amazing though.
http://jonsibal.com/blog/wp-content/...F599XX_ac1.jpg
Jap manufacturers are followers that lack ***** and commitment and are unable to stand behind their products and design most of their products off of what has worked prior. No *****.
German manufacturers are leaders with big *****. Probably too big because as hard as Porsche tries I doubt they will be able to sell the new GT3. From where I'm standing both Porsche and BMW have strayed too far from their roots and if they keep going in the bloated gadgetry direction they will fail. What got them to their current stature was building simple well made cars with rich/quality interiors not bloated over engineered cars.
US manufacturers have ***** but lack commitment UNTIL RECENTLY. Ford, Dodge and GM are both building some badass cars and are standing behind them. I love ford and dodge for building manufactured based race cars (similar to porsche) and really committing to their sports cars.
The reason your coworkers are driving mustangs and corvettes has less to do with nostalgia and more to do with performance.
If ford builds a light weight boss mustang it could set the benchmark for affordable performance cars.
11-15-14, 10:23 AM
#66
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LOL
So effing true
I hate you for reminding me of the truth, you sick bastard
I'm not worried about housings, I have 3 engines ready to go LOL
LOL.............love the diffuser stuff. However look at all the cheese we spread on our beloved FDs and it's typically better to spread OEM cheese than homemade
Jap manufacturers are followers that lack ***** and commitment and are unable to stand behind their products and design most of their products off of what has worked prior. No *****.
German manufacturers are leaders with big *****. Probably too big because as hard as Porsche tries I doubt they will be able to sell the new GT3. From where I'm standing both Porsche and BMW have strayed too far from their roots and if they keep going in the bloated gadgetry direction they will fail. What got them to their current stature was building simple well made cars with rich/quality interiors not bloated over engineered cars.
US manufacturers have ***** but lack commitment UNTIL RECENTLY. Ford, Dodge and GM are both building some badass cars and are standing behind them. I love ford and dodge for building manufactured based race cars (similar to porsche) and really committing to their sports cars.
The reason your coworkers are driving mustangs and corvettes has less to do with nostalgia and more to do with performance.
If ford builds a light weight boss mustang it could set the benchmark for affordable performance cars.
So effing true
I hate you for reminding me of the truth, you sick bastard
I'm not worried about housings, I have 3 engines ready to go LOL
LOL.............love the diffuser stuff. However look at all the cheese we spread on our beloved FDs and it's typically better to spread OEM cheese than homemade
Jap manufacturers are followers that lack ***** and commitment and are unable to stand behind their products and design most of their products off of what has worked prior. No *****.
German manufacturers are leaders with big *****. Probably too big because as hard as Porsche tries I doubt they will be able to sell the new GT3. From where I'm standing both Porsche and BMW have strayed too far from their roots and if they keep going in the bloated gadgetry direction they will fail. What got them to their current stature was building simple well made cars with rich/quality interiors not bloated over engineered cars.
US manufacturers have ***** but lack commitment UNTIL RECENTLY. Ford, Dodge and GM are both building some badass cars and are standing behind them. I love ford and dodge for building manufactured based race cars (similar to porsche) and really committing to their sports cars.
The reason your coworkers are driving mustangs and corvettes has less to do with nostalgia and more to do with performance.
If ford builds a light weight boss mustang it could set the benchmark for affordable performance cars.
If I could do some pieceing together of cars, I could probably make something really nice. I am a huge fan of circular lights, a real rear diffusor, the shape of a 599XX, RX7, 599xx rear bumper, the 2015 porsche front bumper.
11-15-14, 10:44 AM
#67
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I am pretty sure they drive Fords because of family/memories, atleast that is what the two who drive mustangs told me. one drives a cobra and 67 mustang, the other drives a Shelby that his son bought him.
If I could do some pieceing together of cars, I could probably make something really nice. I am a huge fan of circular lights, a real rear diffusor, the shape of a 599XX, RX7, 599xx rear bumper, the 2015 porsche front bumper.
If I could do some pieceing together of cars, I could probably make something really nice. I am a huge fan of circular lights, a real rear diffusor, the shape of a 599XX, RX7, 599xx rear bumper, the 2015 porsche front bumper.
I was just speaking for what I see on the street and the streets are full of mustangs and corvettes and it's because they are high performance sports cars at a bargain price which I believe has more to do with those two things than nostalgia.
Love how those cars look gorgeous and the lines somewhat similar
Don't like the cheese on the FD though 
I also think all 3 would look better without those squared off fender edges.
11-17-14, 04:48 PM
#71
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Look what I saw today, Looks like the SUV market is joining in on the CHEESEY.
http://www.supertweaks.com/image/dat...LR028863_b.jpg
http://www.supertweaks.com/image/dat...LR028863_b.jpg
11-18-14, 10:44 AM
#72
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i got sent these this morning. fish is a grouper, looks just like the car, car is ugly. probably break sales records
11-18-14, 11:25 AM
#73
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flip it and you have the cartoon smile similar to the mx5
Pick your flavor but I'll take the frown and evil HLs vs the smile and girly HLs
I just wish they would make the car smaller/lighter overall
I agree it's going to sell pretty well because it's not just about looking sexy which is important but performance is what really sells sports cars
Pick your flavor but I'll take the frown and evil HLs vs the smile and girly HLs
I just wish they would make the car smaller/lighter overall
I agree it's going to sell pretty well because it's not just about looking sexy which is important but performance is what really sells sports cars
11-18-14, 03:19 PM
#75
The GT350 is a big leap. Just how big? We don't know yet. It's not that they can't do such things. They have proved they can do anything but that they are usually unwilling due to the expense.
Ford proved they could beat Ferrari with the GT40 program. But after like 3 years they proved their point and quit spending the $$$ it takes to stay dominant in racing.
So the question is: is this GT350 a blip in time not to be repeated; or is Ford planning to really compete with the AMG and ///M cars by using composite materials and advanced engine design?
Remains to be seen....
We know they can... Question remains if they will...
Ford proved they could beat Ferrari with the GT40 program. But after like 3 years they proved their point and quit spending the $$$ it takes to stay dominant in racing.
So the question is: is this GT350 a blip in time not to be repeated; or is Ford planning to really compete with the AMG and ///M cars by using composite materials and advanced engine design?
Remains to be seen....
We know they can... Question remains if they will...