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No comparison.
with the money for one M2 turbo. you can get almost two Stage2 BNR turbos, and more than two Stage1 BNR turbos.
M2 took weeks to do their sitting duck job. BNR turn around time is in days. I got mine done in 2 days.
Of course the UPS guys always the slow one from Alabama to California.
I'm a fan of BNR, I know the owner personally and know he's a perfectionist. He build his turbo himself and if something does happen to be wrong with it (which isnt likely) I know he'll fix it. M2 turbos dont have warrenty so if something does happen to be wrong with them your screwed out of $3K
To me there really isnt anything else to say. I'm sure M2 has fine turbos but I'd never pay $3K for a set with no warrenty
this part is true..what raza says is true...but the bnr's are laggy and slower and probably will not handle the boost that the garretts will. The reason for this is that the m2's are ball bearing and run much cooler than the stocker style shaft bearing turbos.
I particularily enjoy cars with low end response. I live in the city. The m2 set is much torqier down low and pull like a **** all thru the power band. Im very happy with their performance. The m2 set enabled me to get my low end response back after i lost it with my streetport.
in all honesty...I believe they are worth the extra money.
ask barry (kwikrx7) he is running the full bnr upgrades and he is bothered with the amount of lag he is faced with. He seems happy to keep up and even beat modified vettes and whatnot but he has clearly stated that he wishes he went m2 due to the lag the heavy bnrs cause.
Im in the process of tuning my car...making progress every day. Actually tried running them non seq on the m2's this week for the hell of it (poormans). I have to get a 3 bar map sensor and a new solonoid and I will be running 20 lbs sequentially. I will eventually post dyno sheets....we need to see these turbos dyno sheets vs the bnr's to see what the key differences are.
it seems both customers are happy with their set....I dont know how far Fremont is from Orange County but Id be happy to run you REZA....and see how they do. Im pretty confident that you will be impressed.
Like I said, either way you are paying $1,500 + for rebuilt turbos. Just go single, if you like twins, stay with the stockers or go with the 99 JSpec ones.
artguy sure...
I was only going to get the stock rebuild. ended up with the stage1 rebuild.
So I think the primary is still the same as the mazda stock.
I don't have much money. If I won the california lottery, I would probably get M2, or get BNR to custom made me a ball bearing turbo
Well, the stock rebuilds only cost $750 with a ported wg, AND they have run 11.1 @ 121 in the 1/4....actually they have been high 10's but I think that guy had lightened his car some.
I've never been able to find fault with the stock twins. They make great power up to 17psi of boost which is about 385-390 rwhp. Not bad at all if you ask me....and that was with a old PMS if I'm not misstaken!!!
Do they generate some heat...sure they do...thats why you have a IC.
I will say that BNR's customer service is second to none. The lag that I felt with the HTB upgraded twins might be to a cracked wastegate - Bryan's going to tear the turbos down and find out what's going on - either way, I'm extremely happy that he's willing to take them back and work with them until I'm happy - not many places will do that.
The compressor wheels on the BNRs are larger than the M2s when you look at them. I know they will perform and it's only a matter of time until we start to see dyno numbers start to roll in. I'm planning on going back to sequential because I like it better but I know one sequential FD pulled down 386 rwhp at 15 psi with a dinky PFS IC. I'd imagine they might pull down a little more in non-seq mode but there's something about having full boost and crazy power by 3K rpms and then having the feeling of somebody shooting you in the back at transition when the secondary comes online. - even with all the rat's nest.
If you're in the market for rebuilt turbos or are in need of some extra power over the stock turbos and don't want to go broke getting a single (I went broke when I got my ported engine ) then you might want to talk to Bryan - for the money it's well the worth the extra hp.
I don't understand the seq and non-seq thing.
They are basically the same above 4500rpm.
Because in the sequential system, the primary works all the way to redline, and the secondary works from 4500 to redline.
between 4500rpm and 9000rpm. Both are running together just like non-seq running together from 3000rpm to 9000rpm
Originally posted by the_glass_man If you are thinking about spending that kind of money, just go single.
Many people can't "just go single" because of smog rules... We have rolling smog trucks around here and if you get snagged with a single turbo, they will tow your car. Period.... If you simply fail the test with modified twins (or true stock twins), they at least let you drive home.
-Matt
__________________
'93 Touring - Lots 'o Mods
'87 944 Turbo - A Few Mods
'00 S4 - No Mods
If bearing heat is a problem with underhood temps I will come out with a lower friction journal bearing That isn't a problem. I am spending way too much money on carbon seals/journal bearings and whatnot. I am doing Stephens turbos without the carbon seal. When I see how that works out, I will spend lots of money on a 360 thrust kit, dynamic kit and lower friction journal bearings. All this will reduce friction on the rotating assemblies therefore you can spin em faster and get more reliable boost out of them. I hate carbon seals, thats the main reason why most twins fail. That and blowing apex seals through them!!!
Many people can't "just go single" because of smog rules... We have rolling smog trucks around here and if you get snagged with a single turbo, they will tow your car. Period.... If you simply fail the test with modified twins (or true stock twins), they at least let you drive home.
-Matt
Only in the People Republic of California. Why people vote the way they do, and put up with the **** you guys have to is behond me. How will you get towed if you pass smog???
I don't think most even know what it looks like under the hood of the rotary. When I get inspections, they tell me, "thats the biggest radiator I've ever seen!" This in regards to my SMIC.
There are plenty of ways to pass smog with a single. The HKS and Apex kits, even use the airpump. Most if not all the HKS stuff is CARB legal. (Even the Front Mount)
Better you then me man, I don't have to worry about any of that ****. We don't have many tree huggers out here.
Only in the land of the free can SUV's not have to meet the same goals car do, and can you get 91 Octane gas.
I
Originally posted by the_glass_man
Only in the People Republic of California. Why people vote the way they do, and put up with the **** you guys have to is behond me.
Actually the CARB board is completely beyond the control of the voters. It is one of the worst cases of government gone wrong I can think of.
Quote:
Originally posted by the_glass_man There are plenty of ways to pass smog with a single. The HKS and Apex kits, even use the airpump. Most if not all the HKS stuff is CARB legal. (Even the Front Mount)
There are no single turbo set-ups that are CARB legal, even with an air pump. It doesn't matter if you pass the sniffer test if they flunk you on the visual. Wonderful laws aren't they?
Better you then me man, I don't have to worry about any of that ****. We don't have many tree huggers out here.
Only in the land of the free can SUV's not have to meet the same goals car do, and can you get 91 Octane gas.
I [/quote]
Yeah, if my job wasn't so rare, I would leave this mixed-up state (although the weather and sports atmosphere is great). What can you do. The funny thing is the longer I live here, the more conservative I become....
yeah...its a job thing for me too....so cal has a lot of great opportunities...but I have never lived in a state where I feel like i have less rights...as a driver and not.
gutted my cat last night...smog schmog...was not able to boost past 15.3 lbs on the stock cat...turbos are flowing much better now.
I will say this...m2 was not kidding that my turbos operate best at 16 lbs or so....I upped the boost from 14.9 lbs to 16.2 lbs and the difference was night and day...the back end fishtails thru second.... tires smoking...engine singing....woo hoo! at just under 15 lbs I get a a nice squeal as I shift into second...at sixteen I need a lot more rubber on the ground...sheesh...it totally breaks loose under accelleration in second gear....I run yokohama intermediates which are nice and sticky...no matter.
gotta get rims and tires now...fun fun fun!
btw for those who think the m2 set will tail off up high...I broke loose at 5k and it ripped thru redline. yikes.
) then you might want to talk to Bryan - for the money it's well the worth the extra hp.
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