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You don't upgraded injectors or a upgraded fuel pump for the M2 stages.
BTW, you really can't run upgraded injectors on reprogrammed ECU's since you can't get them tuned. The car will run like crap basically using something like a M2 with upgraded injectors.
If you are flowing X amount a fuel at 80% duty cycle, and you upgrade your injectors... the ECU will still think it's using 80%, however that 80% is not X+ whatever the extra amount is that the upgraded injector is flowing. Too much fuel for the system can be just as bad as not enough.
Originally posted by Kahren yes at ~315 your stock injectors are at about 82-86%
At 315 RHWP you will be at 100%. I am running my PowerFC with the mods listed below. I am setup at 13psi with added fuel for safety and I am seeing 94 to sometimes 96% injector duty. My next mods are IC and injectors. I am ok with my stock setup now, as I don't drive from stoplight to stoplight at full throttle (all the time ). And, I highly doubt I am pushing anywhere near 315 RHWP.
I think that with the Stage 3 there should have been secondary injectors added; at least 1200cc's.
I've seen 4 FD's with M2 stage 3 (including myself when I had it) and none of them made anywhere near 315rwhp. Mine made 292, while the others ranged from 287 to 290. We had a bay area dyno day on saturday, and several people had m2 stuff there. NONE of them got the power that what was advertised on M2 website corresponding to their modifications. I think that those numbers were falsified or at higher boost levels using an additional boost controller. Here's a question, does anyone on this forum who has M2 stage 3 got anywhere near that power, without the addition of a boost controller???
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1994 FD <---1fookntiteFD
Apex'i RX6 Single
Apex'i N1 pro damper
FEED Type 2 front end (real one not a replica)
FEED Hood
FEED GT Wing
18' Volk CE28N Gunmetal
etc, etc....
What about if the injector's aren't brand new. If they get a little clogged what will happen to the duty cycle %?
The ECU doesn't know if they are clogged or not, however, at what the computer thinks is 80% flow you are actually getting less fuel due to clogging and therefore you may be running in a lean condition.
I would think that you would need more fuel with a larger IC. My Power FC was tuned for an M2 large SMIC, and I am seeing 94 % at full throttle with 13 psi, so you may get 80% with a calculation, but I am stating this from observation.
I have M2 stage 3 ecu with stage 2 mods. I have noticed a sizeable power increase, but no dyno tests ... yet...
The numbers on the M2 website are MAXIMUM numbers. Not everyone's car will reach those numbers. Everything has to be working perfectly on the car... plus every car is slightly different. Rotaries are no exception and are probably MORE finicky with variations in power delivery than piston cars.
Remember M2 tunes the ecu's VERY conservatively for engine protection. I only needed a stage 2 and Brian said he would give me stage 3 for the extra fuel/safety net.
what does a pfc have anythign to do with this, u can tune your injectors to do whatever cylce u want and for the power output, u can just be running too rich, which aslo hurts your hp readings
Quote:
Originally posted by atihun
At 315 RHWP you will be at 100%. I am running my PowerFC with the mods listed below. I am setup at 13psi with added fuel for safety and I am seeing 94 to sometimes 96% injector duty. My next mods are IC and injectors. I am ok with my stock setup now, as I don't drive from stoplight to stoplight at full throttle (all the time ). And, I highly doubt I am pushing anywhere near 315 RHWP.
I think that with the Stage 3 there should have been secondary injectors added; at least 1200cc's.
Originally posted by Kahren what does a pfc have anythign to do with this, u can tune your injectors to do whatever cylce u want and for the power output, u can just be running too rich, which aslo hurts your hp readings
You do not directly control your injector duty; it is based on how much your stock injectors can flow and how much fuel delivery you need based on tuning and based on the RPMs and boost; basically your map. If you are tuning a car and your 850cc injectors are open 80% of the time and you find that your car is still running lean in certain map areas, you add more fuel. The more fuel you add, the increase in time you keep the injectors open, hence the increase in injector duty.
With the PFC you can see your injector duty based on how you are driving the car, RPMs and how the fuel map is setup.
Originally posted by Kahren there is no way u should see those numbers with the mods u have, unless tehre is something wrong with your injectors
There may be something wrong, but I have not encountered it yet. I have a high flow fuel pump, I run chevron techron through the system every month, and I feel no hesitation; not to mention that I have now 97K on the original stock setup.
If you look at similar threads under the PowerFC forum, you will see similar number with similar mods. One reason that I have high numbers is that I have the fuel map setup conservatively, meaning on the richer side and that it is ready for a larger IC. Not the best for the engine or the plugs, but it's been doing very well for the last two years.
Originally posted by 1FooknTiteFD I've seen 4 FD's with M2 stage 3 (including myself when I had it) and none of them made anywhere near 315rwhp. Mine made 292, while the others ranged from 287 to 290. We had a bay area dyno day on saturday, and several people had m2 stuff there. NONE of them got the power that what was advertised on M2 website corresponding to their modifications. I think that those numbers were falsified or at higher boost levels using an additional boost controller. Here's a question, does anyone on this forum who has M2 stage 3 got anywhere near that power, without the addition of a boost controller???
I saw a stage 3 M2 + high flow cat car put down 309 to the wheels once...does that count? Here's the dyno curve if your interested.
I have m2's ecu stage 3 with all their stuff, intake, i/c, d/p, etc. That is all I have on the car.
The motor blew up less then 16 months in to it!!! I thought the ecu was conservative, conservative my ***!!!
I just got my car back not too long ago and it's not on par. before the incident the car ran fine, BUT it ******* blew up!!
Did you guys read the Sport Compact Car magazine a few months ago?? The one with the fd at SR motorsport?? GUESS what, it was done by M2!!!AND it too blew up, What a coincident??!!!! I was following it religiously with the modds.
Well , to say the least... I will never buy anything from them again.
It wasn't my car and it's been a while since that run was made, so I can't say for sure, but I think that run was made using the standard boost provided by the M2 computer...ie. 12-13 psi.
Blade7,
I can understand your frustration, as something very similar happend to me, except in my case it was an SR tuned PFC instead of an M2 computer, and it was 15 months on the motor, instead of 16. My first reaction was much like yours...I blamed the tuning, but that is the wrong thing to do unless you have actually measured your AFRs with a wide band and KNOW FOR A FACT that the tuning is not conservative. In my case, it turns out the tuning had nothing to do with it. It was actually a problem with my car's 115,000 mile old fuel system. If your FPR, fuel pump, or injectors are operating marginally, the best tuning in the world won't save your motor.
I don't know if you have actually checked your AFRs to be able to make the claim you are making about M2's tuning, but if you haven't, you shouldn't jump to conclusions until you have all the facts. If you HAVE the AFR data to back up your claim, then please share it with us: You'll be saving several people's motors as well as making a significant contribution the the rotary community's body of knowledge.
). And, I highly doubt I am pushing anywhere near 315 RHWP.
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