ArmitageGVR4

iTrader: (13)

Sorry to ask these questions on archaic technology however I tried to search for info but the search function seems to disregard any strings that are only 2-characters long. Whenever I search for "m2 AND ecu" I get every thread that has the word ECU in it.

Anyway, research has turned up very little about these things. Even M2's old webpage was pretty unhelpful: http://web.archive.org/web/200502062...om/pengmgt.htm

Basically what I want to know is what this thing can do and what it can't. What mods you cannot use with it and things you should avoid. Max boost level you can use and still be safe, etc. People say when you install a PFC even with a base map that the car gains a lot of extra driveabilitiy, loses the 3krpm stutter, etc. I assume this is not the case with the m2 because it's a stock ECU?

Any information, manuals or links would be super helpful. Thanks!

rynberg

M2 said their ecu was safe at 12-13 psi with intake, downpipe, cat-back, and larger IC.

ArmitageGVR4

iTrader: (13)

I don't plan to run more than 10 psi at the track and MAYBE 12 around town after some dyno/wideband time just to make sure my a/f is up to snuff. One thing I should have also asked: is there any issue with using boost controllers with this ECU? Does it expect that the factory wastegate and prespool actuator solenoids are still in place?

rynberg

No, why would it? It's just the stock ecu with enriched maps and FCD.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

I am running close to 300 rwhp on my M2 ecu at 13 psi. I still have the oem main cat. Mods in sig. M2 didn't suggest that you use their ecu with a mid pipe. However, that may have been just to avoid getting close to the limit. They were pretty conservative.

ArmitageGVR4

iTrader: (13)

These are the types of things I need to know since there's little documentation out there. Since the stock ECU had some control over boost levels it wasn't too far-fetched to think there was a possibility that the upgraded program might have tweaked these levels for optimum performance and that bypassing the WGA/PGA solenoids/bleeders would actual decrease the performance or utility of the unit.

Any and all information no matter how trivial people have would be appreciated, thanks!

adam c

iTrader: (2)

The M2 ecu is set to boost to 12 psi. That control can easily be overridden with a boost controller. I use a needle valve boost controller on my wastgate line. Don't try this type of controller on the prespool line. It doesn't work well.

ArmitageGVR4

iTrader: (13)

Presently I run a single ball/spring type MBC (Slowboy Racing) T'd into both the WGA and PGA and run 9 PSI. I'm not sure of the benefits of running a separate MBC for each because my transition is very smooth already but I have a second MBC (TurboXS w/adjustable bleeder) I can install if need be.

vtakk eg

so the m2 bumps your boost to 12psi?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

we're not sure what exactly the m2 ecu's did

for sure
1. removed fuel cut
2. boost increases, with the intake, ic, dp and a cat back, its setup to do 12.5psi

m2 always said the ecu wasnt safe with a midpipe, and they were right. it can be done, but you either need to keep the boost down, or add a rising rate regulator, or more octane or something.

this is all pretty old school stuff, with the power fc being available, but with a midpipe + all the m2 stuff, you're running 17ish psi, it hangs in there for a while but eventually the engine fails, and shows signs of severe heat damage. (no carbon anywhere, cracks around the plug holes, etc etc)

ArmitageGVR4

iTrader: (13)

Any reason it wouldn't be safe with a high-flow cat or a midpipe provided you kept the boost limited to 12-13 psi yourself, porting the wastegate if necessary? That being said, is there any proven advantage to running a higher flow modern cat over the stock unit? I have a midpipe that I have no installed. I was gonna cut it up and weld a highflow unit in there, but only if it makes sense to do so.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

ArmitageGVR4,

Just think of the M2 ECU as a stock ECU with higher boost. Everything else is exactly the same.

As far as running the midpipe on the M2, I have seen people on this forum do it (Stage 3 M2 ECU). I'm not suggesting that you do, but I've seen it done. I think M2 was just more worried about the incontrollable boost that can come from a midpipe. They probably didn't want people slapping on a midpipe, blowing their engine but blaming it on their ECU and not the midpipe.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

couldnt have put it better if i tried, and i did!

ArmitageGVR4

iTrader: (13)

That raises another question. Since there's a Stage 3 ECU, it implies there are other stages. Are they just different maps for different levels of modification?

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Supposedly, yes. However, since no one really know what the MAPs were, it's hard to say. Basically, the agreement from people were:

Stage I - Mild mods (maybe intake and/or catback)
Stage II - More mods (intake, catback, hi-flo cat)
Stage III - Full bolt-ons (minus the midpipe)

adam c

iTrader: (2)

M2 ecu was set up for 12 psi. In addition, in did not remove fuel cut. I experienced fuel cut in my car before I got a boost gauge. I found out that I was boosting to around 15 1/2 psi, and didn't know it. At about 6K (ish) in 3rd gear, I hit fuel cut more than once. I boost controller went in right away .

xurotaryrocket

By the sound of your post it would seem the M2 ECU did not REMOVE fuel cut, but raised the level at which fuel cut would happen.

Also, the M2 ECU does not up the boost. The intake/catback/downpipe/ up the boost by about 1 psi each. The M2 ECU simply provides the fuel/timing changes to compensate for the extra boost. So, theoretically, you could run less mods but it would be crazy rich and a waste considering the ECU runs rich even WITH the mods.

My boost was a pretty solid 13-11-13. (actual peak boost was about 12.8 with a small spike to 13.1 or 13.2 on transistion. ZERO boost creep. The ECU was DESIGNED for 13 psi, not 12. Heard if straight from the horse's mouth (Brian @ M2 on the phone)

I used an M2 stage 3 ECU on my car. It was fantastic. Simple plug n play and it made gobs of power.

My mods were as follows.

M2 CF cold air intake
M2 SS downpipe
Racing Beat dual catback
Blitz SMIC
R1 / R2 oil coolers
STOCK MAIN CAT

all reliability mods also

fuel system was ENTIRELY STOCK. NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER.

I have heard that it is relatively safe to run a hi-flow cat with the ECu, but NOT a midpipe.

one more thing. i would also recommend using the M2 / ASP ic's with this. The Blitz one was fine for improving STOCK boost, but never seemed up to the task of dealing with 13 psi. Amazingly, the stock IC seemed to drive better with it, even though it is probably not a good idea to use it in this case.

ArmitageGVR4

iTrader: (13)

Well all in all it sounds like I made a good decision. I just want my car to be reliable on the track and unlock the potential of the stuff I've already done: intake, dp, catback, I/C, dual oil coolers, koyo rad, MBC, etc. If I run across some conclusive evidence that a high flow cat can improve my power curve I may go that route and still keep my boost limited to 13 psi or lower.

Thanks for all the input guys!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i think thats a common misconception, there were staged mods, but the computer, at least after 97ish the ecu only got chipped once.

vtakk eg

on the link in the first post it says M2 dont provide reflash for automatic trannys but people have told me they used a stage 3 ecu in an automatic FD so were they lieing to just to get me to buy it or will it work on an automatic ? info would be appreciated so i can decide if i can buy one or not , aslo would a power fc base map be jsut as good as the m2 reflash or would the PFC need to be tuned to be as efficent ?

adam c

iTrader: (2)

I think you are wrong. I had my DP installed at Mostly Mazda (M2), and my ecu upgraded at the same time. When finished, Kyle (head mechanic) tested my boost. It was at 12 psi, which is where he said that the ecu should have it. I had a bone stock FD before going in for his work.

Yep.

Your mods are very similar to mine, except that I have a better flowing intake than you . I have also opened up the flange welds on my oem cat for better flow.

The M2 ecu fit in exactly with my goals for the car. No regrets here.

vtakk eg

Did M2 go out of buisness or waht did they jsut stop producing sturff waht the hell happend

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Yep, out of business. Probably at least 2 years ago.

xurotaryrocket

I'm not disagreeing with you... exactly....it's just that Brian - the head of M2 - told me on the phone that 12 was the target for stage II and that 13 psi was the target for stage III.

we're probably both right - as Brian also admitted that there was VERY LITTLE diffenrence between the stage II and III chips. I actually wanted stage II, but he wanted me to take stage III because of the slight increase in fuel for keeping the charge temps down.

xurotaryrocket

ps - if you want to search for m2 ecu type in this *m2* and ECU