Justin311

Still kinda a newbie to these rotaries...I need some advice on intercooling. I've searched the board and looked at the online retailers but am very confused on what WILL fit and what is NECESSARY. My car/pertinant mods:

93 R1
Battery relocated to rear box
Stock twins with ported WGs
Power FC
full DP/exhaust

Ray @ PFS is going to be rebuilding my motor and I am going with a street port, I will then have Ray dyno tune it with the PFC to whatever is a safe level (from research about 13 psi?). My plan is to do some HPDE Track days with the car so I need some good intercooling.

Looking at my options, I am getting very confused. Some quesitons I hope you all can answer:

-Why do they call it a "SMIC"? I come from the MR2 world where the IC is literally on the SIDE of the car...we would call the stock FD setup a "FMIC". But it seems you all say "SMIC" if its BEHIND the front support and FMIC if its in FRONT of the frotn support. And a Vmount is at an angle above the radiator. Do I have that correct? If so, since my battery is already relocated, I guess I want a "SMIC" - basically want it to fill up the whole area behind the front support - do you think that will suffice for my mods?

-Do I *need* a 3row IC for my application, or will the 2-row suffice? What is the most cost effective IC? I see prices from such mfgs as Greddy, but prices range from like $500-$1500, and all the pictures on the retailers websites are the same

-I do have an Aquamist setup that was meant for my MR2...but my MR2 has an A2W intercooler so I think the WI would be more effective on the FD which has more heat problems. Woudl you all suggest I use the Aquamist in addition to my "SMIC"?

-Do any of your build your own "SMIC" kits with cores off of Ebay? That is popular in the MR2 world and we have a list of which ICs fit well in our spot. Do you guys have such a list? I have a shop that can make me pipes pretty easily

-Do I *need* to purchase this "greddy elbow" everybody talks about? Or are there other options, i.e. modify the stock one?

-Anybody have good pictures of these different types of IC's installed so that I can get a feel for what to look for/build?


thanks in advance for answering my newbie questions!!!

BoostCrzy

SMIC means Stock-Mount-Inter-Cooler.......basically any IC that mounts in the stock location....


I use the Pettit Cool Charge II...but the M2 large seems to be the biggest baddest of the bunch........

the elbow is necessary if you get an intercooler with the piping built into the end tanks....but some may fit with the stock elbow....research!!..lol..hope this helps.


heres my setup....

Nuvolari

iTrader: (4)

M2 SMIC if you can find it . The Pettit or PFS SMIC are both nice also . But if yo have some extra cash go with a V mount but that may be overkill

airborne

The type of intake you run will also influence which IC you can use. Especially stock vs anything else.

I had the old style Cool Charge 2 and on the highway running 14.5psi I could watch the air intake temp rise on my pfc. But I don't know about the new one.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Last time I was at Rays (PFS), he had several "PFS Race" Intercoolers sitting on his shelves, which are essentially replicas of the M2 large/Pettit IC's. They're about as much as you can do with a stock mount intercooler, and will be decent on track.

If you're tracking, do not use a front mount intercooler (Mounted down in the bumper opening, in front of the radiator).

The "V-mount" configuration is probably the best, but requires a replacement radiator/IC combination that works together. It's more $$, but if you haven't already upgraded your radiator (you'll want to for the track), it's an option worth considering.

skotx

M2/ASP/PFS "race" SMIC (not my car).

fdeeznutz

Modified PFS stock mount.

airborne

^what kind of intake is that?

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

I had the Coolcharge II IC on my last car and if anything it took awhile for intake temps to rise from 30 deg to 40 deg on my old car which was running .89bar. The worst intake air temps I was getting was when I was stuck in traffic then it would heatsoak to 60 degs. However, I don't know the stock cooling would have performed here.

Personally, for your setup I think a used Pettit Coolcharge II would be good and a medium size M2/ASP would be best FYI New ASP Mediums can be had from Rx7Store www.rx7store.net

For example I was in the car with a friend last summer when he was pulling he has a large SMIC comparable to M2/ASP Large and a custom airbox with K&N filters and he was running 2 degrees over ambient! like 17 degrees when it was 15 outside (celcius of course). I think an M2 Large may be a little too much for your setup but that is something that more experienced members with the hardware can tell you.

The place where you pull your air from will do alt to intake temps as air in the bumper is colder than air in the engine bay, also air under the car is colder than air in the engine bay.

ASP Medium
http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/aspmedium.htm
ASP Large
http://www.rx7store.net/product_p/asplarge.htm
My old setup



Re-Amemiya V-Mount ~2700USD
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d5...d_levelman.jpg

Justin311

Thanks for all the replies guys....STOCK MIC...LOL...my bad

OK I have to read through all of your posts SLOWLY as getting used to all these new acronyms is taking my tired brain a while...M2 medium large race lol.

*THAT* is exactly what I had in mind. PFS makes one of these? I will have to talk to them about that as well in addition to my motor build/tune. Might as well just get my Credit Card on file with him

Can anybody give me approximate costs? I'm definitley not going to go FMIC or "V-mount" as from what I've read those are very spendy...I'm looking for a budget IC at the moment...too many car project to go crazy on this one :O)

Justin311

I forgot to mention this, the previous owner already upgraded to a Fluidyne Radiator and AST (or whatever its called ) So I am set for radiators. Sounds like I had better call Ray to get a price on that "Race SMIC" as that seems the most logical choice. Thanks!

VegasFD

Here's what you're looking for. An M2 large for a GREAT price. Here's the link:

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=630737

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

If you keep the intercooler behind the radiator you WILL have a big have problem with heat soak. So much hot air is coming out of the radiator that you can't get around it, the duct helps block it but the radiant heat is still there!!! Imo its not the best option. A smic will work and anything is better than that stock plastic pice of ****. If u can, get a front mount or a v-mount. You can duct air to the radiator in a front mount application so NO overheating problems occur. Or a vmount which is what I use.

I actually used the core from my cool charge III for mine cause I was not happy with it in SMIC form. the heat of summer was a bitch and the ic would get hot and would take alot of constant driving to cool back down. Also if you move the ic from behind the radiator you just increased the ability of air to flow through the radiator. Not only that but if you tilt the radiator the other way, you just opened up a large area for your intakes to suck that all important cold air. Y couldn't mazda figure this out after 10years of r@d????This is a summary of what I have found in 3years of searchin and testing on this subject. Good luck!!

fdeeznutz

Apex-i

fdeeznutz

You will get heat soak on any IC. The stock mount usually takes longer to rebound than a FMIC for obvious reasons. For me, I would rather have a little extra heat soak, than a huge FMIC blocking the radiator from getting cool air.
My .02

skotx

I wasn't aware that PFS made an M2/ASP knockoff, but ptrhahn mentioned that they did in his earlier post. FYI, the company M2 no longer exists but the SMIC they sold is still in production by some new guys and can be purchased new from rx7store.net (all the names and copied products makes it a little confusing unless you've watched it all unfold). The Pettit Cool Charge III is basically the same thing. A smaller version of this IC is known as the M2/ASP medium, Pettit Cool Charge II, etc. and allows you to keep the battery in the engine bay.

The intake you see in the pic I posted earlier is the M2 carbon fiber box. It's a nice looking intake, and one of the few sealed boxes that draw air from beside the radiator, but it's tight fit and a pain in the *** to swap in and out.

So, let's sum this up: You want the biggest IC you can fit in the engine bay with the battery removed, so you'll want to find an M2/ASP large, or a Pettit Cool Charge III, or a PFS "race". I think they all got for about $1500 new and you can find them for $1000 - $1200 used. You'll need the Greddy elbow for the M2/ASP and I assume the same holds true for the others.

This is certainly a situation in which you gotta pay to play!

And though I hate to even mention it, you CAN get knock offs of the M2 Medium (and maybe the large?) for extremely low prices off of ebay. The problem here is that you'll have to fab your own duct and you take a chance on the quality of the IC core.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

You can use a front mount WITHOUT OVERHEATING PROBLEMS if it is properly ducted. Look at F-bodies and vette's. Do you c a radiator, no they have an air damn that guides air into the radiator. With a front mount u MUST duct the air around the core or somthing like that. If done right overheating is a non issue. run your fans on high, pfs should be able to do that when they tune your car.

I have a 12X18 ic duct if you get an ic with out. will sell it cheap if u go that route.

Its nice to keep the ic in the engine bay to keep the stock look. more of a sleeper that way.

there is also a mod that some do to lower the top of the rad and make a much bigger duct to feed the smic. these are more facts you will find when you research this topic which has been covered many times.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

sorry double post

dradon03

iTrader: (2)

Double post. Simple fact you have the intercooler infront of the radiator. It is blocking air to the radiator. Running your fans on high you are trying to suck air through the radiator AND intercooler instead of just the radiator.

If you are looking for something affordable I still contend that the Pettit SMIC that I was for 400 shipped is the best deal you will see. a Large sized IC usually goes for double that price used and new should be around the 1.5k mark.

rynberg

YOU ARE WRONG. And have been proven wrong countless times. Running an FMIC on a car that will see road course duty is just plain DUMB.

In case you haven't noticed, these cars aren't F-bodies, whatever the hell THAT comparison is supposed to be about. And I HAVE seen both F-bodies and Mustangs overheat on track days, so your comparison isn't valid from that point either.

Yes, a V-mount is the optimal setup for track driving, however, there are hundreds of us who track our cars with SMICs just fine thank you very much.

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

Read the post. you have to make a duct or air damn. you are not trying to route air through the ic. Get that thought out of your head. one more time you are not tryn to get every bit of air to the radiator through the ic core. if done right will work. do you at least c what i am tryn to say or are you so stuck on the fact that the ic is there that every bit of air in front of the car has to go through the ic. I am done the info is out there find it.

Edit: My car is also driven in florida summer weather where heat soak is a big issue sittin in traffic during the summer. my smic would get so hot you could not touch it. no bs

seandizzie

iTrader: (1)

I didn't deny that a smic won't work. I was tryn to say that a fmic setup right can be used. with track use I would use a v-mount and do. If you don't think the info is valid you are a mod delete it.

rynberg

How are you going to create an "air dam" or "duct" to route air around the FMIC? I've been here a long time and have seen properly "ducted" FMIC setups and they are not built how you are describing. All they do is ensure that all of the incoming air goes through the FMIC and then to the radiator without leaking around the rad. Please post some pics of what you are talking about because I've never seen it.

For the record, we are talking about a track setup here, that's what the OP will be doing with his car. With street driving, an FMIC is acceptable, although I would rather have slightly higher air intake temps than coolant temps. Water injection is your friend.

I don't censor things I don't agree with! What kind of horrid forum would that be?

Justin311

Thanks, you've certainly sent me in the right direction, I'm no longer lost

I'll try to get a used one and if not I'll talk to PFS about one of their new ones.

Justin311

You'd be suprised on how many forums do that. Try AEM's forum for example...will never go back there again

To clarify, the car will be 95% street driven. An occasional HPDE day at the open track will be the extent of its track life, HOWEVER, I do want a reliable setup that can withstand longer than average highway pulls and the occasional track day. I.E. no dyno queens