Hi...new and big noob to the rotary scene..
05-23-07, 11:25 PM
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Hi...new and big noob to the rotary scene..
Hello All, im from MN. A very good friend of mine owns a 93 RX-7 TT R1 edition. I just come here for help and studying because he comes to me for madd help because the car he had before was a Honda Prelude (and he jumped straight to a FD without studying) so..here i am, a BIG DSM (talon, eclipse) guy just coming here for some recommendations you guys got.
Help:
- i kno there is a pre-cat issue in these cars. my friend just recently bought a downpipe and we're planning to install it asap, but our issue is that we dont get full boost we should be feeling on 2-3 gear from a stop. My god we got a shitty 17 second 1/4 time because of the possible lag. i drove it twice hittin 17s consistantly, so i thought it was a boost thing, but reading about replacing the precats and cat-converter would "cure" this issue. so...would the issue be fixed if we put in the DP and test pipe?
- installing the DP and changing the cat-converter to a test pipe...how hard is it to change the DP on these cars(tight as hell fit)? For the Cat-converter, there is a weird looking small line(pipe-like) that goes straight to it from the engine, what is it and what can be done to have it done to a test pipe?
i kno i've got more, but for now driving the FD for how it runs is NOT putting a smile on my face compared to the DSM i've driven. This FD feels weaker(torquewise) from downshifting 5-3. it doesnt pull as hard as i thought it would. thats why i come to you guys for MADD help. THANKS!!!
Help:
- i kno there is a pre-cat issue in these cars. my friend just recently bought a downpipe and we're planning to install it asap, but our issue is that we dont get full boost we should be feeling on 2-3 gear from a stop. My god we got a shitty 17 second 1/4 time because of the possible lag. i drove it twice hittin 17s consistantly, so i thought it was a boost thing, but reading about replacing the precats and cat-converter would "cure" this issue. so...would the issue be fixed if we put in the DP and test pipe?
- installing the DP and changing the cat-converter to a test pipe...how hard is it to change the DP on these cars(tight as hell fit)? For the Cat-converter, there is a weird looking small line(pipe-like) that goes straight to it from the engine, what is it and what can be done to have it done to a test pipe?
i kno i've got more, but for now driving the FD for how it runs is NOT putting a smile on my face compared to the DSM i've driven. This FD feels weaker(torquewise) from downshifting 5-3. it doesnt pull as hard as i thought it would. thats why i come to you guys for MADD help. THANKS!!!
05-24-07, 01:31 AM
#2
1. There is an excellent FAQ to get you started. It's one of the "sticky" posts at the top of this forum:
FAQ for 3rd Gen & other useful links:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/faq-3rd-gen-other-useful-links-68640/
2. It's very likely that the car has a boost leak or boost-control problem of some sort. I recommend you install a boost gauge and measure the boost pattern. The FD RX-7 has twin sequential turbochargers, so please try to find more info on the way to test for a correct 10-8-10psi boost pattern in 3rd gear.
3. DO NOT INSTALL A TEST PIPE (aka midpipe on these forums). The boost control system of the RX-7 will not compensate for the increased flow, and many people have damaged their engines at 13-15psi from the stock turbochargers. It might be possible to install a good boost controller to keep boost down at safe levels, but I personally believe that the OEM turbos are near or past their efficiency limit at the flow levels seen by people who remove their main cat converter.
4. A downpipe is one of the best mods you can make to these cars. Use lots and lots of WD40 / PB Blaster and be sure that the car is cold (let it sit for a day if possible) before you attempt to remove the downpipe studs. Be prepared for fitment issues if you're installing a cheap downpipe. To cope with the high temps of the rotary, I had my DP ceramic coated and also wrapped with fiberglass insulation.
5. I'd recommend changing the fuel filter if you're not sure how long it's been used for. They are relatively small, so they should be changed pretty often IMHO. They're also located in a hard-to-reach area, so many people forget or purposely neglect to change them.
Good Luck,
-s-
FAQ for 3rd Gen & other useful links:
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/faq-3rd-gen-other-useful-links-68640/
2. It's very likely that the car has a boost leak or boost-control problem of some sort. I recommend you install a boost gauge and measure the boost pattern. The FD RX-7 has twin sequential turbochargers, so please try to find more info on the way to test for a correct 10-8-10psi boost pattern in 3rd gear.
3. DO NOT INSTALL A TEST PIPE (aka midpipe on these forums). The boost control system of the RX-7 will not compensate for the increased flow, and many people have damaged their engines at 13-15psi from the stock turbochargers. It might be possible to install a good boost controller to keep boost down at safe levels, but I personally believe that the OEM turbos are near or past their efficiency limit at the flow levels seen by people who remove their main cat converter.
4. A downpipe is one of the best mods you can make to these cars. Use lots and lots of WD40 / PB Blaster and be sure that the car is cold (let it sit for a day if possible) before you attempt to remove the downpipe studs. Be prepared for fitment issues if you're installing a cheap downpipe. To cope with the high temps of the rotary, I had my DP ceramic coated and also wrapped with fiberglass insulation.
5. I'd recommend changing the fuel filter if you're not sure how long it's been used for. They are relatively small, so they should be changed pretty often IMHO. They're also located in a hard-to-reach area, so many people forget or purposely neglect to change them.
Good Luck,
-s-
05-24-07, 07:42 AM
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Yeah the FAQ's will be very helpful. As said previously, do NOT install and downpipe/midpipe/cat-back/intake/etc together without upgrading the ecu. However, replacing the precat with a downpipe and adding an intake without an ecu upgrade is usually ok.
Most of us recommend replacing the precat with a downpipe is absolutely necessary as the stock precat tends to clog cause major problems. You can do this with an otherwise stock FD with no other mods.
There are a million ecu upgrades (reflashes/piggy backs/replacements). I highly recommend doing the ecu as one of the very 1st upgrades.
Your friend probably has a boost leak. Also the stock vacuum hoses under the intake (aka rats nest) tend to crack and cause major headaches with the turbo system. Again, if your friend wants to keep the stock set up, have the stock vacuum hoses replaced with silicon hoses and zip tied.
There is a list of "reliability mods" listed in the FAQ that I highly recommend having your buddy do 1st.
As for DSM, I have an Evo 8 as a dd and its an awsome car. I've tried to push it hard to find its limits but they are so high that I don't think its really safe to do on the street. Gotta find an empty air strip a la "Top Gear"
Most of us recommend replacing the precat with a downpipe is absolutely necessary as the stock precat tends to clog cause major problems. You can do this with an otherwise stock FD with no other mods.
There are a million ecu upgrades (reflashes/piggy backs/replacements). I highly recommend doing the ecu as one of the very 1st upgrades.
Your friend probably has a boost leak. Also the stock vacuum hoses under the intake (aka rats nest) tend to crack and cause major headaches with the turbo system. Again, if your friend wants to keep the stock set up, have the stock vacuum hoses replaced with silicon hoses and zip tied.
There is a list of "reliability mods" listed in the FAQ that I highly recommend having your buddy do 1st.
As for DSM, I have an Evo 8 as a dd and its an awsome car. I've tried to push it hard to find its limits but they are so high that I don't think its really safe to do on the street. Gotta find an empty air strip a la "Top Gear"
05-24-07, 11:28 AM
#5
But the bottom line remains the same: don't go gutting the whole exhaust until you are fully aware of what to watch for and how the associated problems must be solved. A downpipe, intake, and catback usually keep the boost at 10 or 11psi, which is safe. Anything you do that causes boost to go above 11psi, even momentarily, is very dangerous for your engine and must be addressed. This is the reason why the boost gauge should be installed now, before mods are added, because if there is a boost problem it should be addressed before a mod makes the problem more dangerous.
Dave
05-24-07, 11:16 PM
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thanks a BUNCH guys. i've really read alot and man this motor acts differently as i thought it would to a DSM turbo(wise). THANKS ALOT!!!!!!!!!!! you guys are great!!!
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05-25-07, 07:31 AM
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This is not accurate. The problem with a full exhaust is twofold: 1) it usually increases the boost, which requires an ECU upgrade or boost adjustment to keep within the abilities of the stock ECU 2) full exhausts often have boost creep, which means that the boost does not stop at the level set by the boost controller, and nothing you do with your boost controller will stop the boost from creeping.
But the bottom line remains the same: don't go gutting the whole exhaust until you are fully aware of what to watch for and how the associated problems must be solved. A downpipe, intake, and catback usually keep the boost at 10 or 11psi, which is safe. Anything you do that causes boost to go above 11psi, even momentarily, is very dangerous for your engine and must be addressed. This is the reason why the boost gauge should be installed now, before mods are added, because if there is a boost problem it should be addressed before a mod makes the problem more dangerous.
Dave
But the bottom line remains the same: don't go gutting the whole exhaust until you are fully aware of what to watch for and how the associated problems must be solved. A downpipe, intake, and catback usually keep the boost at 10 or 11psi, which is safe. Anything you do that causes boost to go above 11psi, even momentarily, is very dangerous for your engine and must be addressed. This is the reason why the boost gauge should be installed now, before mods are added, because if there is a boost problem it should be addressed before a mod makes the problem more dangerous.
Dave
What I was saying is that it usually isn't safe to go with a full exhaust (no cats) and an intake with no other upgrades. Some can get away with it but I've seen too many dead fds because the stock ecu can't handle it. Especially with no boost controller.
05-25-07, 08:40 AM
#9
Yeah, boost generally goes up quite a bit with those flow mods, and the general increase in boost is more than the ecu can handle. But the root cause and total scope of the problem goes beyond tuning. The real problem is boost control - if you port the wastegate and regulate the boost to 10psi the stock ecu is perfectly happy and safe.
Dave
Dave
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