FD Hitachi Twins re-designed??
#1
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FD Hitachi Twins re-designed??
I own a 93 that has the type of Hitachi Turbos assembly that incorporates a large snap-ring to hold the Bearing and Compressor Housings together. I've noticed on some FD Hitachi assemblys that Mazda did away with the snap-ring and re-designed the Compressor Housing to have four (4) bolts & retainers to secure it to the Bearing Housing.
Is this design a year specific change?? Was it re-designed because of boost leak related problems associated with poor snap-ring seating??
Is this design a year specific change?? Was it re-designed because of boost leak related problems associated with poor snap-ring seating??
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Originally posted by Jodeny
I have 5 sets of turbos. I have never seen what you are talking about. Can u take some pics?
John
I have 5 sets of turbos. I have never seen what you are talking about. Can u take some pics?
John
Also, I recently bought a Turbo Rebuild Kit for my twins and the instructions had a diagram illustrating the Compressor Housing to Bearing Housing bolt/retainer set-up I am referring to.
I'd like to know the specifics and reasons for the re-design.
Last edited by areXseven; 03-22-04 at 11:36 AM.
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Actually they do not flow more at all. The compressor of the 99 specs is 1mm SMALLER than the previous ones because they wanted them to spool a bit faster as they do, and there are some other mods on them as well that make them more efficient and reliable like the abraided housing. My 2000 type R makes 280ps BUT at a stock pattern of 12-10-12
With that amount of money i would go with something that flows more than the stockers.
With that amount of money i would go with something that flows more than the stockers.
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Originally posted by racer1
Actually they do not flow more at all. The compressor of the 99 specs is 1mm SMALLER than the previous ones because they wanted them to spool a bit faster as they do, and there are some other mods on them as well that make them more efficient and reliable like the abraided housing. My 2000 type R makes 280ps BUT at a stock pattern of 12-10-12
With that amount of money i would go with something that flows more than the stockers.
Actually they do not flow more at all. The compressor of the 99 specs is 1mm SMALLER than the previous ones because they wanted them to spool a bit faster as they do, and there are some other mods on them as well that make them more efficient and reliable like the abraided housing. My 2000 type R makes 280ps BUT at a stock pattern of 12-10-12
With that amount of money i would go with something that flows more than the stockers.
#6
"make them more efficient and reliable like the abraided housing"
The abraided housing is recognized as containing a design fault - apparently the 98- twin turbos will 'not sustain power' and cannot be used for 'endurance-style racing' (I have no idea of the precise details there - that's a direct translation from a japanese report)
The abraided housing is recognized as containing a design fault - apparently the 98- twin turbos will 'not sustain power' and cannot be used for 'endurance-style racing' (I have no idea of the precise details there - that's a direct translation from a japanese report)
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Here's a photo of the Turbos I was referring to.
Check out the bolts and retainers situated on the Compressor Housing.
Check out the bolts and retainers situated on the Compressor Housing.
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Originally posted by racer1
My 2000 type R makes 280ps BUT at a stock pattern of 12-10-12
My 2000 type R makes 280ps BUT at a stock pattern of 12-10-12
#9
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Originally posted by GoRacer
Aha, that would explain the extra 30hp. So if the Efini y-pipe kit adds 1lb then does the efficiency of the smaller wheels add the other 1lb? That's pretty deceiving, didn't everyone think it was 280PS on 10lbs?
Aha, that would explain the extra 30hp. So if the Efini y-pipe kit adds 1lb then does the efficiency of the smaller wheels add the other 1lb? That's pretty deceiving, didn't everyone think it was 280PS on 10lbs?
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So any thoughts and/or hard data explaining why Mazda ditched the large snap-ring in favor of the bolts/retainers??
#11
This is always going to be a problematic argument - given that it is highly unlikely that 280hp IS the actual output. Remember that this was a 'gentlemans' agreement' between manufacturers - none of them have been very gentleman-like about it in reality
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#13
off the top of my head - there's the y-pipe update, better exhaust, 'bigger' dp (thinner metal = more volume), upgraded turbos, better ecu (whether or not that lends itself to better performance, I don't know), better air flow from revised bumper, extra boost
The 280ps (hp) is most likely, underquoted. I can't find the suggested 'real' ps figure at the moment - I believe it to be in the low 300 area (303 or something like that). I've heard that toyota (with the JDM supra) was the biggest cheat in the 280ps agreement - though I'd say the r34 GTR is up there too
The 280ps (hp) is most likely, underquoted. I can't find the suggested 'real' ps figure at the moment - I believe it to be in the low 300 area (303 or something like that). I've heard that toyota (with the JDM supra) was the biggest cheat in the 280ps agreement - though I'd say the r34 GTR is up there too
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How much additional HP gain using JSpec 99 Turbos in a bone stock 93-95 FD??
FYI: 255hp at 6500 rpm w/manual tranny
255hp at 6200 rpm w/ auto tranny.
FYI: 255hp at 6500 rpm w/manual tranny
255hp at 6200 rpm w/ auto tranny.
#15
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Originally posted by areXseven
So any thoughts and/or hard data explaining why Mazda ditched the large snap-ring in favor of the bolts/retainers??
So any thoughts and/or hard data explaining why Mazda ditched the large snap-ring in favor of the bolts/retainers??
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Originally posted by Kento
Possibly just a manufacturing change requested by Hitachi, and/or slightly improved metallurgy in the bolts/retainers that allow them to expand/contract better in relation to the exhaust turbine housing. Just a guess...
Possibly just a manufacturing change requested by Hitachi, and/or slightly improved metallurgy in the bolts/retainers that allow them to expand/contract better in relation to the exhaust turbine housing. Just a guess...
#17
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally posted by areXseven
But the bolt/retainers I'm curious about are on the Compressor housing side. A totally different design from the snap-ring configuration. Manufacturers usually don't make design changes unless it improves the ergonomic or mechanical function of the component/devise.
But the bolt/retainers I'm curious about are on the Compressor housing side. A totally different design from the snap-ring configuration. Manufacturers usually don't make design changes unless it improves the ergonomic or mechanical function of the component/devise.
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Originally posted by Kento
That's what I meant by "improved metallurgy to allow the bolts/retainers to expand/contract in relation to the exhaust turbine housing". The bearing housing is still attached to the exhaust turbine housing, transferring a lot of heat from that area. Perhaps Hitachi or Mazda felt that the snap-ring setup could possibly be susceptible to vibration problems that would cause wear/clearance problems after time.
That's what I meant by "improved metallurgy to allow the bolts/retainers to expand/contract in relation to the exhaust turbine housing". The bearing housing is still attached to the exhaust turbine housing, transferring a lot of heat from that area. Perhaps Hitachi or Mazda felt that the snap-ring setup could possibly be susceptible to vibration problems that would cause wear/clearance problems after time.
#19
Perhaps the bolts were part of the change to abradable housings. It seems that it would be more important to keep the compressor housing as precisely located as possible relative to the compressor wheel. Maybe the snap ring was not precise enough. Those turbos in the picture do look like they have abradable housings as evidenced by the black stuff inside the housing visible though the compressor inlet.
-Max
-Max
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Originally posted by maxcooper
Perhaps the bolts were part of the change to abradable housings. It seems that it would be more important to keep the compressor housing as precisely located as possible relative to the compressor wheel. Maybe the snap ring was not precise enough.
-Max
Perhaps the bolts were part of the change to abradable housings. It seems that it would be more important to keep the compressor housing as precisely located as possible relative to the compressor wheel. Maybe the snap ring was not precise enough.
-Max