slo

iTrader: (1)

So I am still in the planning stages, but I know that I need to retain the stock rails, or use fuel rails which allow retention of the acv (which to my knowledge is only the stock rails).

That said what is the best way to go?

Max power could go as high as 420 + WHP, turbo's will be BNR stage 3, with med to large street port. I want to try and run them sequentially at first and may convert to NS in the future depending on how I like it.

ECU after I get the car smog reffed will be a haltech E8 which I allredy have, (am currently running), just need to swap back to stock for smog reff test. I am allready running a walbro pump, but might go with something better if need be.

after extensive searching there is allot of opinion and not allot of anything solid.

It seems there are 2 ways to go with injectors, 4 stock 850's which may not support my power goal at a reasonable duty cycle or 2x850's and 2 1300's. I would like to go that route, but don't like the idea of bored out injectors (most sources I have found, in particular witchhunter seem to recomend against it).

Are there any 1300's (or for that matter anything larger than 850) available which are not just bored out 850's?

There is allot of opinion on running paralell or series with the stock rails, does anyone have any solid experience where they where running series, and switched to paralell with no other changes and ended up solving the problem?

Is the advantage of paralell only a beter transition to the staging point? If so I don't think this would help as the haltech stages at a set load point (eg o or 1PSI) and doesn't care what the RPM at that point is.

how about running an adjustable regulator either paralell or series and using that to bump the base pressure up to 50 or 55 psi to extract more power from the 4 850 injector combo.

Any thing I run must look stock at least from the outside without disasembling components, so any adjustable pressure regulators or splitters must fit under the UIM.

Thanks in advance

Heisenberg

iTrader: (3)

Well you could always put the secondary 850cc injectors inside the primary rail and run some 1300cc secondarys. That should be enough for your application.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

The only thing to worry about with 1300's is start with new injectors. With 850/1300's you keep the OEM rails and rubber lines. You can add a small Sard fpr with rubber hose fittings and mount under the extension manifold to hide it but your better off not mounting it before a referee test as I don't beleive it's CARB legal. I was told those tests are like 4hrs long and they check everything.

Parallel is supposed to supply more fuel evenly so the secondarys get plenty but i've never seen any "proof" of that or it helping with power.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I ran 850s/1300s for years with my BNRs at 17 psi.

rynberg

Um, you won't be able to swap back to stock ecu for emissions with larger injectors. And 550/1300 is plenty of fuel for BNRs (with the fuel pump wiring upgrade if necessary).

You won't be hitting 400 rwhp on BNRs anyway, not on our 91 octane.

RX7 RAGE

iTrader: (22)

How much psi do you boost on the street with the BNRs Tyler?

rynberg

15 psi, AFR ~ 11.0:1

slo

iTrader: (1)

With a street port and BNR's I think just crossing the 400 mark is possible on 91 octane. I will be using water injection (which believe it or not is smog legal, acording to the ref I spoke to.)

But for the actuall ref apointment I will be dead stock aside from the catback. And HKS intake with carb sticker.

why does it matter if you start with new injectors, if the ones you have are in spec?

RX7 RAGE

iTrader: (22)

sweet, 15 psi on 91 octane w/o water injection? i guess i should just stick with 550/1300 then with my bnr3s in non seq format. i was thnking of going 850/1300...

rynberg

Well you can think that all you want but I have a streetported motor with BNRs and a Steve Kan tune, and I don't make anywhere near 400 rwhp. Probably could on race gas but not 91 octane.

Yes, it's legal. I still wouldn't run over 15 psi on 91 octane even with water injection.

Why? The only thing I have to change on my setup for smog testing is the midpipe out for a cat. I pass just fine, including visual. If you are going to swap out injectors for testing, why bother trying to keep the ACV?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

For all those thinking of going BNRs, I *highly* recommend you keep the turbos sequential if it's a street car. Because the BNR twins are fully 20% larger than the stock turbos, set up non-seq it's going to be laggier than a stock twin non-seq FD.

slo

iTrader: (1)

Thats just for the ref test, I spoke with one of the technitions, who said they might want to actually physicly see the ecu, and may want me to remove the UIM to inspect under it.

After the ref check I just want to be very very close to 100% visual compliance. The only thing outwardly visible with my current plans will be a downpipe.

I do plan to keep them sequential, the haltech e8 that I will be using has enough outputs to easily controll the turbos, in a simplified sequential type of arangment, and with the right adapter it can plug into the stock harness like a PFC and is easily configured to use all stock sensors.

twomucboost4u

iTrader: (9)

Rynberg how did you not make close to 400 with BNR's? I have a stock motor with 20k and stock twins with 120K and I made 322 on 12 lbs of boost and steve said it was breaking up top end and should have been around 330. So your telling my with a ported motor, better turbos and a little more boost I couldnt pull 70-80 hp. I think thats well within reason.


Chris

rynberg

I made 310 rwhp at 10 psi, 33X at 12 psi, 345 at 13.5 psi before it started breaking up above 6k rpm. I figure I'm good for 360-370 at 15 psi with no breakup. I think that's pretty good for a SAFE tune on 91 octane with a pretty quiet exhaust.

I'm not seeing hitting 400 rwhp running sequentially on 91 octane. If you want to run 18 psi, go for it!

Don't forget that every car and dyno is different.....

dubulup

to remove the UIM for an inspection sounds unreasonable.

haltech looks nothing like a stock ECU...and won't illuminate the CEL...and won't work with stock MAP, air and water temp.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I agree that removing the UIM is unreasonable, they said they would need to inspect all smog controlling vacuum hoses, and if the can't see with a mirror and flashlight, they might do the smog test first then ask me to come in with parts removed so they could inspect.

wrong on all accounts, well the haltech looks nothing like stock I'll give you that, but in my car (FC) the stock ecu gets mounted under a pannel in the front carpet.

I'm pretty sure any of the recent haltechs can be setup with an output to illuminate the CEL, not that thats a big concern it costs less than 5 dollars and a trip to radioshack to get the cell to illuminate just like stock. There is a CEL output type for my stock haltech, I probably won't use it because as I said it would be a waste.

Second the E8 or E11 can be setup to use any MAP, water, air, O2 or TPS sensor, it can even be setup to monitor the stock fuel temp sensor.

Go ask this question in the haltech section if you think I don't know what I'm talking about.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

I would like to see your results. I was going to go to the referee on my own to get a sticker for my FMIC and single kit since I retained the air pump. I would also have to make a M2 style box and return all hoses to it just like stock. Even with that done, I could fail for the BOV (venting to atmosphere instead of returning to air box), EGR not functioning even thought it would be mounted and pluged in, etc, yada yada. Anyhow, I was told to stay away from a referee at all costs.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to the referee to get my car reffed as a street legal engine swap. They will issue an engine type sticker change that says that the new engine type is from an FD, in this case I will be telling them its a 95 so no EGR.

You cannot ref a turbo swap as street legal, that would have to go through the ARB, you could potentially do that though ($$$$$$$$$ and time), There is a carb legal HKS turbo upgrade for the FC. Thats why I am getting BNR stage 3 twins, they will make the power I want with better response than a single (full sequential).

Your PFC is not street legal, but there is a CEL "stimulator" that turns on the CEL light for a few second on starting like the car was stock.

intercoolers are quasi legal, cops and refs/smog stations have gone both ways on this one, there are many intercooler options for the FD that retain the side mount location, one of these painted black is stock looking enough, hell some FMIC kits are pretty hard to see especially if you throw some black paint on then. My FMIC is painted black, I have had many cops look right at it and not say anything.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Honestly, I think it's just a function of the sequential system being a bottleneck. I made 365 @ 15 on a very mild streetport and '99's. I don't think anyone's hit 400 rwhp on sequential twins.

To eek out more dyno power, you've got to run non-sequential, but i'm not sure that translates into more "real world" usable power. You're better off doing the 1300/550 combo if you're on twins, and being happy w/ your 365-375 hp.

ReadyKW

They are completely legal. Here is a direct quote from the BAR Smog Check Inspection Manual Rev.6. Ref. Appendix K-4
"Items that are not of concern as long as the required emissions controls are connected and functioning. (No Executive Order number is needed).
* Intercoolers for OEM turbochargers
* Non-thermostatically controlled air cleaners and/or elements. (Note: Applicable PCV and/or EVAP systems must remain closed with the new air cleaner assembly installed. Additionally, any other emissions related components must remain intact).
* Vapor/steam/water injectors"

There are more items listed, but these apply to us. Note that the listing of water injection is on the same page. If you have BNR's, they cannot fail you for your intercooler no matter what it is. Many of the aftermarket air intakes should pass also. The cop/smog tech/referee may have a different opinion, but it doesn't f'ing matter cause your playing by thier own rules.

slo

iTrader: (1)

There are other interperations of that taken in context with the rest of the manual, and possibly with other sources which would still suggest that they are parts which must get carb approval.

If you have something more concrete I'd like to see it.

ReadyKW

Talk about not being concrete

I gave you a direct quote from the BAR manual which is sitting on my bookshelf. Would it help if I came down from the mountain with stone tablets?

NissanConvert

iTrader: (1)

+1, i have a street port and poor mans and lag sucks big time. If you want to keep it streetable go small/med single or keep them sequential. There's no sense in going non-sequential for more boost @4000rpm+ when the primary is boosting well before that and the secondary is coming online at 4500.

I've always heard that intercoolers were smog exempt considering that all they do is cool the intake air...

If you want to maintain a stock looking system just boost your fuel pressure and get a good tune. I haven't seen anyone yet make 400rwhp with an OEM *looking* fuel system.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I don't know who you are or what you do, but Ive talked to 3 different smog refs, and I refrenced that page, there is a PDF of it in the west section. Gues what I got three different awnsers:

1. Aftermaket intercoolers and nonstock pipes are legal without carb numbers if they are stock like replacment parts is the stock location.

2. Aftermarket intercoolers and pipes are legal without carb numbers if the original parts are not listed as bieng or connecting to smog control devices directly, and if their use does not cause a CEL to illuminate. He went onto say that many newer cars with OBD2 will get CEL,s with FMIC's. And that no reprogramiming or Piggy back controllers where legal without carb numbers.

3. Aftermaket intercoolers as performance modifications must have carb numbers.

What I would want (more concrete) is something saying that relocation of the intercooler is legal. Replacment of the intercooler with larger versions is also legal. There is rumored to be a memo from either the BAR or ARB to smog stations or ref's saying exactly that, but I haven't been able to find it.

ReadyKW

Doesn't that raise your suspicions? Ask them to reference their source. If I get three different answers from three different "experts", I then know that they aren't sure. I find references to aftermarket equipment being "functionally identical in all respects which in any way affect emissions", but nothing in regards to physical layout. Of the responses you got, #2 looks almost correct (however we are not OBD II and the phrase "connected to smog control equipment directly" I cannot find). The rest are BS. Press back.

Instead of giving a quote or showing a PDF, try getting a copy of the manual and show up with the real thing. The manual has all sorts of good to know info on how the smog inspection should be performed. For the inspection, the technician is guided by the inspection guidelines, vehicle info (stickers, vin database etc.) and appendixes.

Unfortunately for you, an engine change has occured. This requires a referee to "determine" what the appropriate smog equipment should be. Again, press back. Make them show you their sources.