GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Just curious for some recent experiences, I haven't heard much about them recently.

c00lduke

Perhaps with NRS's better prices and more of a connection with the forum they have taken over a good portion of the market.

7racer

I have them in my engine since the last rebuild. Hven't put many miles on the car as it is on jackstands. With the weather warming back up, I should be able to put the car back together pretty quickly.

DamonB

My buddy runs them in his p-port racecar. The engine has blown up half a dozen times that I can think of but he's still on the same set of seals

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Are you thinking about running them on your car?

I had a chance to talk to Dr. Ianetti back in Oct 05. When asked about using his seals on Street driven car, he said he does not recommend it. That was his words.... But he does recommend it on track driven cars..

adictd2b00st

i have them, so far so good (~13k miles on the motor)

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

From older experiences I've read, ceramics can still blow up, and when they do they shatter into many little pieces, causing even more damage to the engine's hard parts than the regular apex seals.

It's a helluva lot of money that could be spent on something else, IMHO.

Dale

dubulup

I talked to Rick Engman a while back...same recommendation (well...I've only known Rick to build two street engine, and he used what the customer supplied). I want to say it had to do with heat cycling...race vs street. I could be off base though...Rick talks a lot and some flys over my head...but I'll listen until he stops

DamonB

Anything can still be blown up. However the ceramic seals will take far, far more abuse before failing than any metal seal.

If you break a ceramic seal you can rest assured that a metal seal would have already grenaded. How can a failed ceramic seal cause more damage than a failed metal seal? A failed metal seal will trash the rotor, housing and possibly plates. What's left to destroy???

The other advantage to ceramic seals is their light weight; they don't chatter at high rpm. I wouldn't bother running ceramic seals unless I was turning very high rpm, like in a p-port motor for instance. No sense in them for a street car IMO.

SPICcnmGT

So would the real reason for not running them in a street application just be cost?? IE. it's not really worth spending the extra 100s on seals, because the stock ones last as long as most anything else in the engine, on a good tuned healty engine. Or do they cause excess wear, don't seal very good at lower rpms, etc.??

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

I think I have a video clip of me asking Dr. Ianetti about using them on street prep cars. If I find it, I'll load it on you tube or something.... If my recollection is correct, he kind of dodge the question and gave me a very vague answer why he doesn't recommend on street cars... and he himself said, go with OEM Mazda seals!

dubulup

the opposite...the ceramic properties are easier on the housings.

I wish I could remember more about the heat cycling conversation I had...maybe someone knows more about what I'm thinking...or maybe I'm confusing something else.

Race engines are run hard all the time at high temps...and broken down often. Big difference...Street cars cruise more than WOT (at least they are suppose to)...and want to last 100k miles. A friend of mine in ATL had a (Mandeville) motor built with these and it blasted a seal in very few thousand miles. Made good power for a GT35/40...450rwhp IIRC

GOTBANNED?

Here is some info i got when I was at Mandeville racing we should all know Roger Mandeville is. Anyways he said the Seal cost 3 times as much but dont wear. They much much more stronger and would prob out last the housing before you have to change the seals. If tuned properly a race tuned engine should last the whole season! You can re-use the seals and slo there is no clearancing. Therefore no break in time needed. Install and go i guess you could say. I would love to install them on my car and Im debating it since I ordered my rebuild kit but left the seals out.

So there is some information about that.

Oh and I know the shop i used to work for Can-Saf racing is using them in thier race engine 20bPP which roger built.

dubulup

bearings are what need the longest break-in...however Engman breaks them in on a lathe

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

There's definitely someone back in the Big List days (I wanna say Tom Walsh, but I may be wrong) who ran ceramics and had one break. It shattered into small VERY hard pieces, which destroyed the other apex seals, rotor, rotor housing, irons, and the turbo.

Typically when stock apex seals go (and I've been into my share of blown TurboII engines) you need a rotor housing, MAYBE a rotor, that's it. Sometimes the damage to the rotor is on the face of the rotor, and if it's flat, it works just fine. I don't think I've ever seen irons taken out by a broken apex seal.

Again, this is second hand information from a LONG time back. At the end of the day, it's nearly 2 GRAND for the ceramics, which is just damn steep. That's a lot of professional dyno time for a VERY quality tune.

Dale

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

I've blown ceramic seals.
Fuel starvation once and a poor tune another time (starts with a B).
These were with NRS 3mm 1-piece seals though.

With the poor tune, the seals took out everything. Rotor, rotor housing, side housings and turbo were wasted unlike any other damage I had seen from a blown seal. The motor wouldn't turn over any more. That guy will never come within 100 yards of my car again without a hail of gunfire.

The other time from fuel starvation the seal just cracked into two pieces with no damage. Engine still ran but showed lower compression ~60 psi iirc. There was no damafge to anything else. I wanted to jump into a hail of gunfire after this one. There is a pic of the seal on the forum somewhere.

RX-Heven

iTrader: (1)

In regards to all the pm's I've been getting, I will not say exactly who tuned the car. I'm afraid I (or the sangria) have said too much already.

Sas for the seals, I still believe in them and know they have saved me several times before and since. That being siad, nothing is bullet prooof.

p.s. don't eat the slices of fruit at the botom

Glassman

iTrader: (1)

Ivan bought his last 20B ceramic set from NRS in August 2006

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

If somebody tuned your car incorrectly you might save others a huge headache and thousands of dollars by letting others know your experience.

elwood

iTrader: (1)

Does anybody have data on spring wear with Ianetti Apex Seals? I spoke with Dr. Ianetti today, and he didn't know how long the springs would last in a street / occasional race environment.