40,000 dollar modded FD
08-27-14, 11:24 AM
#51
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I think it's undervalued also but we are different from the masses. As long as a guy that's looking for a sexy fast car, for what ever reason, can buy a low mileage car like a mid to late 90s Viper for $50k or less, then our beloved FDs will stay at the prices we see them at now. jmho
Most of the high priced muscle cars were loved by the masses. Our cars are loved by, well...us.
That's not to say our cars will not go up in price some day. The thing none of us know is when. Maybe when there are only a few left. There seems to be quite a number of low mileage FDs out there. At least compared to how many were built.
Most of the high priced muscle cars were loved by the masses. Our cars are loved by, well...us.
That's not to say our cars will not go up in price some day. The thing none of us know is when. Maybe when there are only a few left. There seems to be quite a number of low mileage FDs out there. At least compared to how many were built.
This R2 on ebay would of been a 25k car max 5 years ago (quick sale) 28k long sale. I feel it's a 30k car quick sale today. I actually put in an offer to the seller 3 days ago. Typically the prices on sought after cars would remain the same or slightly decrease not increase by 20 percent.
My point is the prices on FDs are going up they are now collectable cars because the values are appreciating not stagnating or depreciating.
With all that said a heavily modded high mileage single turbo car that you pay 20k for today may be worth 10k in 10 years but cars like this ssm R2 if left alone, maintained and not driven much could be worth 50k plus in 10 years.
08-27-14, 11:55 AM
#53
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nobody ever got out of their car and into my FD just to ride a block in it. nobody every hung out the (drivers!) window of their car to yell something like "i had one of those in school" with my FD. regular occurrences in the Tr3. nobody ever stopped to take pictures of the FD, while it was parked, despite it being a very nice yellow one.
i guess you could say that these cars appeal to different demographic slices, the Tr3's is bigger....
08-27-14, 11:59 AM
#54
i had no idea how much "the masses" were indifferent the FD, until i bought a Triumph Tr3, they like that car HUGE difference. nobody ever got out of their car and into my FD just to ride a block in it. nobody every hung out the (drivers!) window of their car to yell something like "i had one of those in school" with my FD. regular occurrences in the Tr3. nobody ever stopped to take pictures of the FD, while it was parked, despite it being a very nice yellow one. i guess you could say that these cars appeal to different demographic slices, the Tr3's is bigger....
Actually those things happen to me all the time in my FD.
08-27-14, 12:12 PM
#55
This is where you and I disagree. I don't see the FD in the same realm as a 1955 mercedes Benz Gullwing where being 100% stock is what counts. No IMO these cars fall more in line with late 60's/early 70's muscle. Cars that owners loved to modify and extract as much potential as they possibly could. Cars that kids revered and dreamed about owning. With that said take a look at this 1969 camaro. Not even close to stock: Asking price is $85,000
1969 Chevrolet Camaro For Sale - USA - CarGurus
This 1969 Camaro SS, from Arizona, was selected for the ZL540 project in 2004, because of its beautiful, straight, rust-free exterior and was originally equipped with a 396, manual transmission and air conditioning. All American Muscle Cars built and transformed it into the ZL540 Street Bully. Powered by a Ultra Street 540c.i. with Donovan D500 Aluminum Big Block, Eagle 4340 4.250" Stroke Internally Balanced Crank, Eagle 4340 6.385 H-Beam Steel Rods, Mahle Custom Coated 9.5-1 Forged Pistons, Dart Pro1 325cc Aluminum Heads, Polished cast Aluminum Valve Covers, Crane Cams "StreetRoller" Cam & Kit, Comp Cams 1.7 Pro Magnum Roller Rockers, Moroso Aluminum Oil Pan, Pump & PickUP, HP Harmonic Balancer, all Professionally Blueprinted and Assembled. Engine dyno numbers revealed a whopping 641 horsepower, 682 lbs./ft. torque delivered through a Automatic 700R4 Transmission with B&M Ratchet Shifter and a 2000 stall converter, 12 bolt rear end with 3.42 gear posi traction. Accel DFI Pro-Ram Gen7 Fuel Injection provides the most advanced programmable engine management available. BeCool Polished Aluminum Cooling Module and March Performance Ultra Drive Pulleys, under hood packaging is work-of-art, part quality and workmanship exceptional! Rock Valley Stainless Fuel Tank, Super Comp 21/8 Tube Headers and Flowmaster 3' Exhaust System. The vehicle's original sub-frame was replaced,and manufactured by Martz Engineering, Front Sub-frame & Coil Over Suspension were powder coated. Competition Engineering Slide-A-Link Traction Bars and Wilwood Disc 12.19" Brakes are Drilled & Slotted. Beautiful 17" Budnik Teardrop Polished Aluminum Wheels are mounted with BFGoodrich g-Froce TA KDW tires. The Street Bully is also equiped with a Dakota Digital Dash, adding new technology but retaining the nostalgic appearance of the origional interior. Vintage Air A/C System retains the original equipment controls with new technology. Careful planning and research transformed a classic 69 Camaro into a technically modernized muscle car. The ZL540 Street Bully delivers the most controlled horsepower and performance package for the street. Truly ONE of a kind, in stunning Torch Red paint. Contact Kip Sheward for the amazing history and exceptional build details behind this incredible 1969 Camaro SS. Drivetrain:Rear Wheel Drive
08-27-14, 12:49 PM
#56
nobody ever got out of their car and into my FD just to ride a block in it. nobody every hung out the (drivers!) window of their car to yell something like "i had one of those in school" with my FD. regular occurrences in the Tr3. nobody ever stopped to take pictures of the FD, while it was parked, despite it being a very nice yellow one.
i guess you could say that these cars appeal to different demographic slices, the Tr3's is bigger....
Last edited by Montego; 08-27-14 at 12:51 PM.
08-27-14, 01:26 PM
#57
Fritz is right. Its in that showroom with that price only because of the cars that are in there.
the Fd is probably the cheapest but to that spoiled guy with money to burn. He walks in there and starts looking at porches then the saleman tell him " how about this sweet modified RX7 ITS RARE!" Now John Doe is in a overpriced car because of his deep pockets and a sales man wanting to get rid of the adrenaline pusher that yellow Fd is. Thats all the guy is buying a car that whistles and goes whapppsshhhh.
To someone more knowledgeable we will look at that and quickly start knocking thousands of the price tag.
If i was in the FD flipping business like John or Fritz. The most i would pay for this was $18k. I can see $10k in selling aftermarket parts right off the back then spending a few hundred buying oem parts to put her back to stock then selling it for $15k easy.
Funny you all notice the big stuff i notice its missing the mazda badge in the back lol clean paint missing $5 badge.
the Fd is probably the cheapest but to that spoiled guy with money to burn. He walks in there and starts looking at porches then the saleman tell him " how about this sweet modified RX7 ITS RARE!" Now John Doe is in a overpriced car because of his deep pockets and a sales man wanting to get rid of the adrenaline pusher that yellow Fd is. Thats all the guy is buying a car that whistles and goes whapppsshhhh.
To someone more knowledgeable we will look at that and quickly start knocking thousands of the price tag.
If i was in the FD flipping business like John or Fritz. The most i would pay for this was $18k. I can see $10k in selling aftermarket parts right off the back then spending a few hundred buying oem parts to put her back to stock then selling it for $15k easy.
Funny you all notice the big stuff i notice its missing the mazda badge in the back lol clean paint missing $5 badge.
08-27-14, 02:34 PM
#58
Fritz is right. Its in that showroom with that price only because of the cars that are in there.
the Fd is probably the cheapest but to that spoiled guy with money to burn. He walks in there and starts looking at porches then the saleman tell him " how about this sweet modified RX7 ITS RARE!" Now John Doe is in a overpriced car because of his deep pockets and a sales man wanting to get rid of the adrenaline pusher that yellow Fd is. Thats all the guy is buying a car that whistles and goes whapppsshhhh.
To someone more knowledgeable we will look at that and quickly start knocking thousands of the price tag.
If i was in the FD flipping business like John or Fritz. The most i would pay for this was $18k. I can see $10k in selling aftermarket parts right off the back then spending a few hundred buying oem parts to put her back to stock then selling it for $15k easy.
Funny you all notice the big stuff i notice its missing the mazda badge in the back lol clean paint missing $5 badge.
the Fd is probably the cheapest but to that spoiled guy with money to burn. He walks in there and starts looking at porches then the saleman tell him " how about this sweet modified RX7 ITS RARE!" Now John Doe is in a overpriced car because of his deep pockets and a sales man wanting to get rid of the adrenaline pusher that yellow Fd is. Thats all the guy is buying a car that whistles and goes whapppsshhhh.
To someone more knowledgeable we will look at that and quickly start knocking thousands of the price tag.
If i was in the FD flipping business like John or Fritz. The most i would pay for this was $18k. I can see $10k in selling aftermarket parts right off the back then spending a few hundred buying oem parts to put her back to stock then selling it for $15k easy.
Funny you all notice the big stuff i notice its missing the mazda badge in the back lol clean paint missing $5 badge.
Actually the FD is not the cheapest thing in there... On another note: As Fritz said this particular dealer seems to have some history with FD's, so his pricing IMO is not without some thought behind it.
Check it out:
$31,500
1995 Mazda RX-7 R2 Pkg Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
$20,500
1993 Mazda RX-7 R1 Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
$24,700
1993 Mazda RX-7 Twin turbo Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
$22,800
1993 Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
$20,700
1993 Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo Touring Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
$25,800
1993 Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo Touring Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
another $25,800
1994 Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo Touring Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
$26,800
1994 Mazda RX-7 Twin Turbo Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
off topic but I would totally rock this lincoln continental....
Ghetto wheels and all:
1964 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL CONVERTIBLE Chantilly , Virginia | Motorcars Washington
Last edited by Montego; 08-27-14 at 02:46 PM.
08-27-14, 04:04 PM
#60
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08-28-14, 01:41 AM
#61
montego
still look at the milage of those cars.........
theres no way the yellow modified Fd is worth $40k. And dont tell me if you went in there for a sports car and they show you a Porsche and you cant afford the $50k plus price tag you will settle for the next best thing. clearly they have a history of selling low milage clean FDs.
theres only 2 kinds of people who will spend big money on a super low mileage Fd over $20k.
collector
someone whos tired of their current modified Fd and want a stock one.
still look at the milage of those cars.........
theres no way the yellow modified Fd is worth $40k. And dont tell me if you went in there for a sports car and they show you a Porsche and you cant afford the $50k plus price tag you will settle for the next best thing. clearly they have a history of selling low milage clean FDs.
theres only 2 kinds of people who will spend big money on a super low mileage Fd over $20k.
collector
someone whos tired of their current modified Fd and want a stock one.
08-28-14, 02:02 AM
#62
montego
still look at the milage of those cars.........
theres no way the yellow modified Fd is worth $40k. And dont tell me if you went in there for a sports car and they show you a Porsche and you cant afford the $50k plus price tag you will settle for the next best thing. clearly they have a history of selling low milage clean FDs.
still look at the milage of those cars.........
theres no way the yellow modified Fd is worth $40k. And dont tell me if you went in there for a sports car and they show you a Porsche and you cant afford the $50k plus price tag you will settle for the next best thing. clearly they have a history of selling low milage clean FDs.
Last edited by Montego; 08-28-14 at 02:13 AM.
08-28-14, 08:59 AM
#63
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Not to chime in, but our FD's have done horribly over the years. perhaps they have gone up a little recently, but MSRP $32,900 in 1993.
Let's just use 6% as inflation rate, No not the manipulated CPI. go to shadowstats for inflation rate.
in 2014 dollars the msrp would be $111,845 in todays dollars.
if we use 4%, $75,000.
cars are not investments unless flipped.
Let's just use 6% as inflation rate, No not the manipulated CPI. go to shadowstats for inflation rate.
in 2014 dollars the msrp would be $111,845 in todays dollars.
if we use 4%, $75,000.
cars are not investments unless flipped.
08-28-14, 09:57 AM
#65
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this is true, cars are expensive new, and then price goes down to some point until the car becomes rare/sought after enough to gain in value again.
the 60's Ferrari GTO is a good example of this, i don't know what sticker price was in 1962, but there was one that got donated to a high school auto shop in Texas, because it was worthless, and it sat there for a 8 years.
Innes Ireland and the Ferrari 250 GTO – RoadandTrack.com - Road & Track
it apparently hasn't changed hands since it left texas, but there was a GTO that sold a couple weekends ago for $500m....
so sure it looks like a no brainer investment, but not everyone made money on it either
the 60's Ferrari GTO is a good example of this, i don't know what sticker price was in 1962, but there was one that got donated to a high school auto shop in Texas, because it was worthless, and it sat there for a 8 years.
Innes Ireland and the Ferrari 250 GTO – RoadandTrack.com - Road & Track
it apparently hasn't changed hands since it left texas, but there was a GTO that sold a couple weekends ago for $500m....
so sure it looks like a no brainer investment, but not everyone made money on it either
08-28-14, 10:27 AM
#67
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I do feel like our FDs are classics like the GTO (though less rare). You still hear about the rare barn/field find, but less and less often now. The dollar value of an FD is a double-edged sword... low prices and a persistent perception of the FD as a wheeled time bomb works in the favor of buyers, but against sellers. Questionable modifications don't help, either.
Because of the FD's rarity, every chassis comes with a duty of care – it's just not plentiful in the way a Mustang or even a late-model Porsche 911 would be. Although it is still possible to find engines and parts, it is becoming more of a challenge and the aftermarket support is diminishing in scale (although new parts are still being developed by specialist manufacturers).
Hopefully, the era of FDs being wrecked by Fast & Furious wannabes is truly over. Obviously, many of us are still tracking and racing FDs, but I also treat my FD as a car that will eventually get a full restoration (but a restomod, rather than reverting to stock).
Because of the FD's rarity, every chassis comes with a duty of care – it's just not plentiful in the way a Mustang or even a late-model Porsche 911 would be. Although it is still possible to find engines and parts, it is becoming more of a challenge and the aftermarket support is diminishing in scale (although new parts are still being developed by specialist manufacturers).
Hopefully, the era of FDs being wrecked by Fast & Furious wannabes is truly over. Obviously, many of us are still tracking and racing FDs, but I also treat my FD as a car that will eventually get a full restoration (but a restomod, rather than reverting to stock).
08-28-14, 10:39 AM
#68
I agree, however the price of all 3 are rising. I'll never understand the appeal of the NSX but due to so many kids starting with a civic and the NSX being the flagship of Honda's existence I assume that is what drives the cost of those things.
4 years ago I was in the market to drop $30k on a used toy. There were several MKIV 6 speed Supras in that range around 75-100k miles. 996 911 Turbos(01-05) were in the low $30s for a tiptronic and mid to high $30s for a 6 speed. Seeing an asking price for a FD at that time over $20k was laughable unless it had less than 10k miles or was a low mileage r2. Finding a good running FD for $11-13k wasnt difficult.
Today, those same Supras are commanding high $30k to low $40k price tags. Built or stock their prices have risen drastically. The 996s have risen a small amount, maybe 7-10% in value. The FD is extremely difficult to find under $15k now that isnt missing AC, interior pieces or needs a lot of work. Low mileage and nicely modified FDs are easily bringing $20k plus now. Im not talking asking prices, they are selling.
To whoever posted above they werent getting pictures taken of their FD or people bugging them, did you have a body kit or some cheap wheels on it or something? I've driven all types of vehicles over the years and a cleanly modded(lowered and nice wheels) FD commands more attention than I would prefer.
4 years ago I was in the market to drop $30k on a used toy. There were several MKIV 6 speed Supras in that range around 75-100k miles. 996 911 Turbos(01-05) were in the low $30s for a tiptronic and mid to high $30s for a 6 speed. Seeing an asking price for a FD at that time over $20k was laughable unless it had less than 10k miles or was a low mileage r2. Finding a good running FD for $11-13k wasnt difficult.
Today, those same Supras are commanding high $30k to low $40k price tags. Built or stock their prices have risen drastically. The 996s have risen a small amount, maybe 7-10% in value. The FD is extremely difficult to find under $15k now that isnt missing AC, interior pieces or needs a lot of work. Low mileage and nicely modified FDs are easily bringing $20k plus now. Im not talking asking prices, they are selling.
To whoever posted above they werent getting pictures taken of their FD or people bugging them, did you have a body kit or some cheap wheels on it or something? I've driven all types of vehicles over the years and a cleanly modded(lowered and nice wheels) FD commands more attention than I would prefer.
Last edited by djseven; 08-28-14 at 10:49 AM.
08-28-14, 10:47 AM
#69
While a car is not an "investment". My r2 is worth drastically more than when I purchased it 2 years ago. Timing is everything and hindsight is always 20/20.
I owned 5 FDs when the market crashed in 07. Banks stopped loaning, the following year Obama came into office and military spending was drastically cut shortly after. 80% of my customers from 02-07 were military and if I sold 20 FDs, I likely only met 3-4 of the owners face to face. Most were calling from satellite phones in the Middle East or I was doing the transaction with their parents or sibling.
I watched my 5 running FDs go from being worth about $70-75K to about $55k in the matter of weeks. I sure wish I would have purchased 5 more FDs two years ago and sat on them until the spring/summer of 2014. Values are jumping like crazy and supply is limited. Almost every time I find a deal these days I find out the car has a salvage, rebuilt, mileage discrepancy or stolen title. I'm not sure what the ceiling will be, but to find a clean running FD under $20k will continue to become more difficult assuming the economy stays stable.
I owned 5 FDs when the market crashed in 07. Banks stopped loaning, the following year Obama came into office and military spending was drastically cut shortly after. 80% of my customers from 02-07 were military and if I sold 20 FDs, I likely only met 3-4 of the owners face to face. Most were calling from satellite phones in the Middle East or I was doing the transaction with their parents or sibling.
I watched my 5 running FDs go from being worth about $70-75K to about $55k in the matter of weeks. I sure wish I would have purchased 5 more FDs two years ago and sat on them until the spring/summer of 2014. Values are jumping like crazy and supply is limited. Almost every time I find a deal these days I find out the car has a salvage, rebuilt, mileage discrepancy or stolen title. I'm not sure what the ceiling will be, but to find a clean running FD under $20k will continue to become more difficult assuming the economy stays stable.
08-28-14, 11:18 AM
#70
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this is almost off topic, but the economy almost cannot stay stable forever. one could even make the case that we are due for a correction
08-28-14, 12:29 PM
#71
Recovering Miataholic
Well gang you can speculate all you want about FD prices in the future-but one things for sure-if you were to get an FD used by a flamboyant celebrity (Steve Mcqueen type) it would have a Good effect on all FD's. Look what it has done for
Mustangs.
Mustangs.
08-28-14, 02:29 PM
#72
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i had no idea how much "the masses" were indifferent the FD, until i bought a Triumph Tr3, they like that car HUGE difference.
nobody ever got out of their car and into my FD just to ride a block in it. nobody every hung out the (drivers!) window of their car to yell something like "i had one of those in school" with my FD. regular occurrences in the Tr3. nobody ever stopped to take pictures of the FD, while it was parked, despite it being a very nice yellow one.
i guess you could say that these cars appeal to different demographic slices, the Tr3's is bigger....
nobody ever got out of their car and into my FD just to ride a block in it. nobody every hung out the (drivers!) window of their car to yell something like "i had one of those in school" with my FD. regular occurrences in the Tr3. nobody ever stopped to take pictures of the FD, while it was parked, despite it being a very nice yellow one.
i guess you could say that these cars appeal to different demographic slices, the Tr3's is bigger....
This is where you and I disagree. I don't see the FD in the same realm as a 1955 mercedes Benz Gullwing where being 100% stock is what counts. No IMO these cars fall more in line with late 60's/early 70's muscle. Cars that owners loved to modify and extract as much potential as they possibly could. Cars that kids revered and dreamed about owning. With that said take a look at this 1969 camaro. Not even close to stock: Asking price is $85,000
1969 Chevrolet Camaro For Sale - USA - CarGurus
Anyway just my $0.02 which really means jack squat because ultimately only time will tell on what will happen with these cars.
1969 Chevrolet Camaro For Sale - USA - CarGurus
Anyway just my $0.02 which really means jack squat because ultimately only time will tell on what will happen with these cars.
While a car is not an "investment". My r2 is worth drastically more than when I purchased it 2 years ago. Timing is everything and hindsight is always 20/20.
I owned 5 FDs when the market crashed in 07. Banks stopped loaning, the following year Obama came into office and military spending was drastically cut shortly after. 80% of my customers from 02-07 were military and if I sold 20 FDs, I likely only met 3-4 of the owners face to face. Most were calling from satellite phones in the Middle East or I was doing the transaction with their parents or sibling.
I watched my 5 running FDs go from being worth about $70-75K to about $55k in the matter of weeks. I sure wish I would have purchased 5 more FDs two years ago and sat on them until the spring/summer of 2014. Values are jumping like crazy and supply is limited. Almost every time I find a deal these days I find out the car has a salvage, rebuilt, mileage discrepancy or stolen title. I'm not sure what the ceiling will be, but to find a clean running FD under $20k will continue to become more difficult assuming the economy stays stable.
I owned 5 FDs when the market crashed in 07. Banks stopped loaning, the following year Obama came into office and military spending was drastically cut shortly after. 80% of my customers from 02-07 were military and if I sold 20 FDs, I likely only met 3-4 of the owners face to face. Most were calling from satellite phones in the Middle East or I was doing the transaction with their parents or sibling.
I watched my 5 running FDs go from being worth about $70-75K to about $55k in the matter of weeks. I sure wish I would have purchased 5 more FDs two years ago and sat on them until the spring/summer of 2014. Values are jumping like crazy and supply is limited. Almost every time I find a deal these days I find out the car has a salvage, rebuilt, mileage discrepancy or stolen title. I'm not sure what the ceiling will be, but to find a clean running FD under $20k will continue to become more difficult assuming the economy stays stable.
Those not buying and selling these cars don't have a clue. Values are way up and will continue to go up despite what the economy does.
Some people really take this car for granted. I think a low mileage FD could easily surpass the price of a low mileage supra in 20 years. If the price gap keeps trending the way it has over the last 5 years the cost of an FD will be right inline with that of a supra. Once again it's all about supply and demand. There are a lot more clean examples of FDs out there but that will not be the case in 10 years. Again we take it for granted.
I'm crazy FD bias and everyone knows it but I'd say more people in general appreciate the looks and performance the FD VS the supra but there are just more FDs out there. The interior of the supra is already dated and simply AWFUL. The size of the car and overall look of the car don't quite jive with me. The interior in the FD is sh#t build quality but it's a timeless design and when it comes to collectable sports cars looks will trump quality every time. For guys like me I'd rather have a light weight crappy interior versus a solid heavy weight interior. This isn't a truck it's a sports car and my priorities put weight and performance at the top and this difference is also one more ***** in the supra armor.
08-28-14, 03:08 PM
#73
I think your 2 pennies are spot on BUT if those upgrades aren't maintained and don't keep up with the latest technologies they aren't worth much. Some like m2 and PFS will be classic mods and could carry some value but nothing is going to beat a low mileage stock FD.
08-28-14, 04:08 PM
#74
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The tr3 is a cute little 50 year old sports car. Give the FD 50 years and see what sort of reaction you get. BTW I have had 3 people stop in traffic and take cell phone pics of my car etc....this year alone. In charlottesville people love the FD and like the tr3 it will be a collectible in approx the same vein..
09-06-14, 04:59 PM
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Mazda RX-7 | eBay
Pretty good gauge of the market. Cover making showcar got $24k. Might be time to call it a buyer's market. Only one sold for more than $30K and it had less than 7'000 miles. A couple in the twenties.
Pretty good gauge of the market. Cover making showcar got $24k. Might be time to call it a buyer's market. Only one sold for more than $30K and it had less than 7'000 miles. A couple in the twenties.