current market usdm FD pricing VS jdm imports
01-10-17, 04:45 PM
#26
Originally Posted by FourtyOunce
That would be nice! I would save money on all the charges/fees I am incurring from buying parts overseas. Parts hoarder's dreams come true!
Hopefully the price of the rear seat swap finally goes down...jeeze
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xurotaryrocket (08-18-17)
01-10-17, 06:30 PM
#28
My biggest fear is that the people that haven't owned an FD up until this point simply because of the cost, will now be able to buy one because its "affordable". The situation where the stereotypical "ricer honda_boy" will scrape enough dollars together to get one is very real. The car is going to fall in the hands of a lot of really off people. I'm talking about the kinds of people that remove sway bars so they drop the car lower, roll their fenders with baseball bats and pipes, put 215s on a 12j and remove their exhaust for no other reason than to be obnoxious. Hopefully it will further divide the market and make the want for an American FD even more since you know you're getting a quality product......... usually. Its like the guy that paints cars out his grandmas shed vs the guy that works at a high end body shop. Yea, the end result is a new paint job but there will be a clear difference in quality.
Easy Fix,
From now on if we decide as a community to raise the price of our FDs it will effect the RHD cars as well. We can make it so that the RHD cars will not be "affordable"
If the community really works together and bumps up the selling price of FDs little by little before the RHD cars become legal we can easily cause a shift in price for not only LHD cars but also RHD cars.
Also if the ricer honda idiots do get a hold of FDs two things will happen. The bad reputation of RX7s engines will increase; lets be honest they will not properly maintain the car and word will spread of rotary engine powered cars being unreliable. But at the same time the chance of their car caching on fire is very high thus leading to fewer FDs in the world and making people not want them.
01-10-17, 06:47 PM
#29
Easy Fix,
From now on if we decide as a community to raise the price of our FDs it will effect the RHD cars as well. We can make it so that the RHD cars will not be "affordable"
If the community really works together and bumps up the selling price of FDs little by little before the RHD cars become legal we can easily cause a shift in price for not only LHD cars but also RHD cars.
From now on if we decide as a community to raise the price of our FDs it will effect the RHD cars as well. We can make it so that the RHD cars will not be "affordable"
If the community really works together and bumps up the selling price of FDs little by little before the RHD cars become legal we can easily cause a shift in price for not only LHD cars but also RHD cars.
Actually quite a few people throughout the years have suggested it. Truth be told even if we collectively achieved a fixed price point, it doesn't work like you think it would:
I present you the C5 anomaly:
"The C5," Mark told me, "has the widest bid-ask spread in the business." Luckily for me I recognized that phrase from my occasional dabbles into coin collecting: to (over)simplify, it's the difference between the highest price anybody will offer for an asset and the lowest price that anybody will accept for it at a given time.
01-10-17, 07:19 PM
#30
Actually quite a few people throughout the years have suggested it. Truth be told even if we collectively achieved a fixed price point, it doesn't work like you think it would:
I present you the C5 anomaly:
The Corvettes That Don't Get Driven, Sold, or Bought
I present you the C5 anomaly:
The Corvettes That Don't Get Driven, Sold, or Bought
Now one thing to consider is the fact that the 90s era JDM sports cars are going up in value as a whole. Also corvettes are and where mass produced cars which does not help resale value at all. If you look at all generation vettes even the C6 corvettes you can pick one up for very little money. Even the legendary ZR1s can be found for 40k with 20k miles on them, I truly blame this on Chevy trying to capitalize on immediate profit by mass producing the vettes. I really think our cars are not going to be stuck in the same situation for a few reasons.
*90 era JDM sports car prices are going up
*The FD is not just another RX7 where the C5 corvette is just another corvette
*I know some of you will hate this but the FD has piggy backed on the Fast and Furious movie car trend.
*The FD has a unique engine (I know most people think they are very unreliable but that add value to rebuild and low milage cars)<- where a low milage C5 is nothing special to write home about.
*Fewer FDs than corvettes
*Praised for handling and unique 50/50 weigh distribution in JDM world.
*People want something different and unique which the FD is. The Corvette is honestly one of the most generic sports cars ever built (not saying its a bad car at all)
*unique Look
*unique interior
Also the lightweight chassis of the FD makes it very desirable for people to swap engines into which causes shells to hold high value.
Also lets look at what people are more interested via youtube.
Notice how the videos with a FD are much more popular than videos of vettes.
Heck even a Trans Am WS6 is more popular than a vette. People not only want different but the market for 90s ears JDM sports car is going up.
Im sure down the line in corvettes will pick up in value when V8s won't be produced like they are now (NA with large displacement and no hybrid system).
Im sure their are more reasons as to why FDs will not be stuck in this situation but these were a few I could think of right now
Last edited by Moe Greene; 01-10-17 at 07:25 PM.
01-10-17, 08:52 PM
#31
FD Ownership Shifting (Literally)
I have met about 45 or so FD owners in the Vancouver area in the two years since I bought my car. The overwhelming majority are very nice guys, who share a love of cars, and FD in particular, and are almost as likely to be working on their cars on Saturday than being out partying. Does our crowd tend to drive our cars to hard and blow them up....guilty. But the car tends to draw that out of people. Anyone who has not had a rotary engine fail, for some reason or other, please raise your hand.
Many owners I have met are young people striving to establish themselves, many starting young families or otherwise seeking to improve themselves.
Owning an FD is a ticket to joining this exceptional community of enthusiasts.
Many owners I have met are young people striving to establish themselves, many starting young families or otherwise seeking to improve themselves.
Owning an FD is a ticket to joining this exceptional community of enthusiasts.
Last edited by Redbul; 01-10-17 at 08:57 PM.
01-10-17, 10:08 PM
#32
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-gen-gene...r-age-1109336/
Last edited by cr-rex; 01-10-17 at 10:19 PM.
01-10-17, 10:47 PM
#33
I just thought of a another reason why the FD wont have the same issue as the C5 corvette, the money that people ask for a C5 is absolutely bonkers since you can get a much nicer newer C6+ gen corvette for that same money heck spend a bit more and you can get a nice C6 ZO6 for dirt cheap. Now for the RX7 we have the last generation and lets not forget the last turbo rotary car!
01-10-17, 11:42 PM
#34
Thanks for the read very good info, I do see a lot of C5 vettes everywhere on craigslist never selling.
Now one thing to consider is the fact that the 90s era JDM sports cars are going up in value as a whole. Also corvettes are and where mass produced cars which does not help resale value at all. If you look at all generation vettes even the C6 corvettes you can pick one up for very little money. Even the legendary ZR1s can be found for 40k with 20k miles on them, I truly blame this on Chevy trying to capitalize on immediate profit by mass producing the vettes. I really think our cars are not going to be stuck in the same situation for a few reasons.
*90 era JDM sports car prices are going up
*The FD is not just another RX7 where the C5 corvette is just another corvette
*I know some of you will hate this but the FD has piggy backed on the Fast and Furious movie car trend.
*The FD has a unique engine (I know most people think they are very unreliable but that add value to rebuild and low milage cars)<- where a low milage C5 is nothing special to write home about.
*Fewer FDs than corvettes
*Praised for handling and unique 50/50 weigh distribution in JDM world.
*People want something different and unique which the FD is. The Corvette is honestly one of the most generic sports cars ever built (not saying its a bad car at all)
*unique Look
*unique interior
Also the lightweight chassis of the FD makes it very desirable for people to swap engines into which causes shells to hold high value.
Now one thing to consider is the fact that the 90s era JDM sports cars are going up in value as a whole. Also corvettes are and where mass produced cars which does not help resale value at all. If you look at all generation vettes even the C6 corvettes you can pick one up for very little money. Even the legendary ZR1s can be found for 40k with 20k miles on them, I truly blame this on Chevy trying to capitalize on immediate profit by mass producing the vettes. I really think our cars are not going to be stuck in the same situation for a few reasons.
*90 era JDM sports car prices are going up
*The FD is not just another RX7 where the C5 corvette is just another corvette
*I know some of you will hate this but the FD has piggy backed on the Fast and Furious movie car trend.
*The FD has a unique engine (I know most people think they are very unreliable but that add value to rebuild and low milage cars)<- where a low milage C5 is nothing special to write home about.
*Fewer FDs than corvettes
*Praised for handling and unique 50/50 weigh distribution in JDM world.
*People want something different and unique which the FD is. The Corvette is honestly one of the most generic sports cars ever built (not saying its a bad car at all)
*unique Look
*unique interior
Also the lightweight chassis of the FD makes it very desirable for people to swap engines into which causes shells to hold high value.
01-11-17, 12:46 AM
#35
15% Measuring Stick
The figures are not certain, but about something like a bit less that 2000 Canadian Version LHD were originally sold. It is not clear to me if that was part of the 13,500, or so, sold attributed to North America or not. The VIN would indicate the Canadian cars were mixed in with US destined production. So we could posit Canada accounted for roughly 15% of original LHD FD demand.
Over the last ten years Canada has highly likely imported at least 100 RHD, or maybe considerably more. One logic could point, then, to US demand being potentially about 700 to 1000 cars. Do Canadians love JDM more? Are we more accepting to driving on the wrong side of the car? Not likely.
Are there 700-1000 92-95 (say) cars left in Japan? The current auction figures would point to there being considerably less survivors. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Over the last ten years Canada has highly likely imported at least 100 RHD, or maybe considerably more. One logic could point, then, to US demand being potentially about 700 to 1000 cars. Do Canadians love JDM more? Are we more accepting to driving on the wrong side of the car? Not likely.
Are there 700-1000 92-95 (say) cars left in Japan? The current auction figures would point to there being considerably less survivors. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Last edited by Redbul; 01-11-17 at 11:11 AM.
01-11-17, 11:32 AM
#36
Are there 700-1000 92-95 (say) cars left in Japan? The current auction figures would point to there being considerably less survivors. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Well, lets look at production #s and where they were sold.
Not sure exactly how accurate these #s are.
When comparing to other numbers be aware that these are by production date and not date sold or "model year" as the US numbers are.
FD Models
1991-92 production
30,705 global --- 18,270 Japan
1993-94 production
11,431 global --- 6,611 Japan
1995 production
4,460 global --- 4,210 Japan
1996-97 production
9,754 global --- 9,754 Japan
1999 production
5,642 global --- 5,642 Japan
2000-02 production
7,309 global --- 7,309 Japan
So, 46,596 FDs produced 1991 to 1995.
We know some 13,879 were sold in North America (or just US?).
That leaves 32,717 '91-95 FDs available to import or leave in Japan.
There were only 22,705 FDs produced from '96-2002 in total.
69,301 total FDs produced and 46,596 of those were '91-'95.
Well, lets look at production #s and where they were sold.
Not sure exactly how accurate these #s are.
When comparing to other numbers be aware that these are by production date and not date sold or "model year" as the US numbers are.
FD Models
1991-92 production
30,705 global --- 18,270 Japan
1993-94 production
11,431 global --- 6,611 Japan
1995 production
4,460 global --- 4,210 Japan
1996-97 production
9,754 global --- 9,754 Japan
1999 production
5,642 global --- 5,642 Japan
2000-02 production
7,309 global --- 7,309 Japan
So, 46,596 FDs produced 1991 to 1995.
We know some 13,879 were sold in North America (or just US?).
That leaves 32,717 '91-95 FDs available to import or leave in Japan.
There were only 22,705 FDs produced from '96-2002 in total.
69,301 total FDs produced and 46,596 of those were '91-'95.
01-11-17, 01:18 PM
#37
Thanks for the read very good info, I do see a lot of C5 vettes everywhere on craigslist never selling.
Now one thing to consider is the fact that the 90s era JDM sports cars are going up in value as a whole. Also corvettes are and where mass produced cars which does not help resale value at all. If you look at all generation vettes even the C6 corvettes you can pick one up for very little money. Even the legendary ZR1s can be found for 40k with 20k miles on them, I truly blame this on Chevy trying to capitalize on immediate profit by mass producing the vettes. I really think our cars are not going to be stuck in the same situation for a few reasons.
*90 era JDM sports car prices are going up
*The FD is not just another RX7 where the C5 corvette is just another corvette
*I know some of you will hate this but the FD has piggy backed on the Fast and Furious movie car trend.
*The FD has a unique engine (I know most people think they are very unreliable but that add value to rebuild and low milage cars)<- where a low milage C5 is nothing special to write home about.
*Fewer FDs than corvettes
*Praised for handling and unique 50/50 weigh distribution in JDM world.
*People want something different and unique which the FD is. The Corvette is honestly one of the most generic sports cars ever built (not saying its a bad car at all)
*unique Look
*unique interior
Also the lightweight chassis of the FD makes it very desirable for people to swap engines into which causes shells to hold high value.
Now one thing to consider is the fact that the 90s era JDM sports cars are going up in value as a whole. Also corvettes are and where mass produced cars which does not help resale value at all. If you look at all generation vettes even the C6 corvettes you can pick one up for very little money. Even the legendary ZR1s can be found for 40k with 20k miles on them, I truly blame this on Chevy trying to capitalize on immediate profit by mass producing the vettes. I really think our cars are not going to be stuck in the same situation for a few reasons.
*90 era JDM sports car prices are going up
*The FD is not just another RX7 where the C5 corvette is just another corvette
*I know some of you will hate this but the FD has piggy backed on the Fast and Furious movie car trend.
*The FD has a unique engine (I know most people think they are very unreliable but that add value to rebuild and low milage cars)<- where a low milage C5 is nothing special to write home about.
*Fewer FDs than corvettes
*Praised for handling and unique 50/50 weigh distribution in JDM world.
*People want something different and unique which the FD is. The Corvette is honestly one of the most generic sports cars ever built (not saying its a bad car at all)
*unique Look
*unique interior
Also the lightweight chassis of the FD makes it very desirable for people to swap engines into which causes shells to hold high value.
I don't think I explained my point very well so let me give it another shot: My point was not about the FD being more desirable than a C5. It was about how setting an artificial price point doesn't really work because the market will do what it does, regardless. The corvette served as an example where the asking price is not a reflection of the demand, hence the phenomenon of the cars not selling. Because at the end of the day, it's the purchaser that determines how bad (willing to pay) they want that item.
Last edited by Montego; 01-11-17 at 01:33 PM.
01-11-17, 02:33 PM
#38
Recent 1992 JDM FD Auction Results
A current on-line JDM auction database lists 652 listing for FD for auction. Many are repeat listings as cars seem to be rolled over from week to week (if not sold I guess). Of this number, only 13 1992 cars were listed; with listings dating back to October 2016. None of these listings were repeats.
The pricing trend since October 2016 is certainly upward. Of the most recent 6 trades the lowest price US$ equivalent 3,750 and the highest US$ equivalent 11,460!
December 2016 1992 FD3S Auction results in Japan.
12-1-16 Osaka Red Fr Type R 130,000 km Rated RA Yen 1,328,000 US$11,460
12-3-16 Kobe Red Type R 83,000 km Rated 3.5 Y 900,000 US$7,770
12-3-16 Kobe Black Type R 147,000 km Rated R Y435,000 US$3750
12-14-16 Sapporo Blue Mica FR 22,000km Rated 3.5 Y875,000 US$ 7730
12-21-16 Silver Type R 70,000 km Rating 3.5 Y1,217,000 US$10,500
12-28-16 Orange Type R 89,000 km Rating R Y600,000 US$ 5180
The top selling car (Osaka) had considerable after market equipment. The zero carry over of cars from week to week is certainly interesting.
The pricing trend since October 2016 is certainly upward. Of the most recent 6 trades the lowest price US$ equivalent 3,750 and the highest US$ equivalent 11,460!
December 2016 1992 FD3S Auction results in Japan.
12-1-16 Osaka Red Fr Type R 130,000 km Rated RA Yen 1,328,000 US$11,460
12-3-16 Kobe Red Type R 83,000 km Rated 3.5 Y 900,000 US$7,770
12-3-16 Kobe Black Type R 147,000 km Rated R Y435,000 US$3750
12-14-16 Sapporo Blue Mica FR 22,000km Rated 3.5 Y875,000 US$ 7730
12-21-16 Silver Type R 70,000 km Rating 3.5 Y1,217,000 US$10,500
12-28-16 Orange Type R 89,000 km Rating R Y600,000 US$ 5180
The top selling car (Osaka) had considerable after market equipment. The zero carry over of cars from week to week is certainly interesting.
01-11-17, 03:13 PM
#39
I don't think I explained my point very well so let me give it another shot: My point was not about the FD being more desirable than a C5. It was about how setting an artificial price point doesn't really work because the market will do what it does, regardless. The corvette served as an example where the asking price is not a reflection of the demand, hence the phenomenon of the cars not selling. Because at the end of the day, it's the purchaser that determines how bad (willing to pay) they want that item.
01-11-17, 07:36 PM
#41
Next JDM Coming Down the Pipe
Auction data does not show any 92s sold in 2017 so far. Recent data (last three months) for the next years:
1993
25 listings 14 sales, low price Y240,000, high price Y860,000
1994
42 listings 13 sales low Y297,000 high 1,055,000
1995
47 listings 15 sales, low Y177,000 high 1,055,000
Where prices are trending higher for 1992s, there still seems to be attractive entry level prices available in the next following years. Get 'em while the gettings good.
Again listings may include re-listings. Median prices trend toward the average of high and low.
1993
25 listings 14 sales, low price Y240,000, high price Y860,000
1994
42 listings 13 sales low Y297,000 high 1,055,000
1995
47 listings 15 sales, low Y177,000 high 1,055,000
Where prices are trending higher for 1992s, there still seems to be attractive entry level prices available in the next following years. Get 'em while the gettings good.
Again listings may include re-listings. Median prices trend toward the average of high and low.
Last edited by Redbul; 01-11-17 at 07:40 PM.
01-11-17, 07:36 PM
#42
All out Track Freak!
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I don't know the JDM market but have heard prices are going higher.
The current US market is junk cars valued at 10k and below. Nice automatics and decent undesirables (VR touring models etc...) 15k. Nice desirable FDs (94/95, white, r2, r1, base models etc...) 20k. Now add 5 to 10k to those prices if the miles are low (30k and under) and or the car is modded nicely etc....
The current list of cars I've seen on auto trader is a joke. Most are worth 15 to 20k on a good day and the sellers are shooting for high 20s or more and NOTHING seems to be selling.
I'm hoping there will be some nice JDM cars available for parts in a few years. There is no way I'd drive a RHD car in the US.
The current US market is junk cars valued at 10k and below. Nice automatics and decent undesirables (VR touring models etc...) 15k. Nice desirable FDs (94/95, white, r2, r1, base models etc...) 20k. Now add 5 to 10k to those prices if the miles are low (30k and under) and or the car is modded nicely etc....
The current list of cars I've seen on auto trader is a joke. Most are worth 15 to 20k on a good day and the sellers are shooting for high 20s or more and NOTHING seems to be selling.
I'm hoping there will be some nice JDM cars available for parts in a few years. There is no way I'd drive a RHD car in the US.
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 01-11-17 at 07:44 PM.
01-11-17, 07:45 PM
#44
That great sucking sound
My early sense is that the massive collector car market in the US is going to vacuum up all the FD in Canada, both RHD and LHD, in short order after they become 25 year eligible.
Last edited by Redbul; 01-11-17 at 07:47 PM.
01-11-17, 07:47 PM
#45
it affects us because people in the market for an fd now have more options instead of the typically expensive LHD version. now the people that want or have thought about getting an fd can more easily afford one. what that does to the CURRENT american/lhd market is it makes those cars a little harder to sell since a rhd version is cheaper and "cooler". a situation may arise one day where it will have to be justified paying a higher price for a lhd version of the same car that can be had for 1000s less with the exotic feature of a different position steering wheel. the market is potentially on the way to being flooded. it could or could not hurt current pricing. i did a rant on the first page on how i feel about it....
01-11-17, 07:58 PM
#46
All out Track Freak!
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it affects us because people in the market for an fd now have more options instead of the typically expensive LHD version. now the people that want or have thought about getting an fd can more easily afford one. what that does to the CURRENT american/lhd market is it makes those cars a little harder to sell since a rhd version is cheaper and "cooler". a situation may arise one day where it will have to be justified paying a higher price for a lhd version of the same car that can be had for 1000s less with the exotic feature of a different position steering wheel. the market is potentially on the way to being flooded. it could or could not hurt current pricing. i did a rant on the first page on how i feel about it....
If someone knows of some nice cars in canada let me know.
Nothing on autotrader: New & Used Mazda RX-7 for sale | autoTRADER.ca
01-11-17, 08:00 PM
#47
yea, thats why i put it in quotes. its an exotic feature to most americans that have never seen or been in a rhd car. it makes for a feature that some would use to push them to make a decision to get a rhd vs lhd. its just different.... you know how that goes. sometimes thats all it takes.
01-11-17, 08:29 PM
#48
Your Future (is Bright).
The sentiments against RHD are likely equally strong in Canada, yet we now have hundreds if not thousands of RHD plying the streets in Vancouver in all shapes and forms. Last night there was a 4WD mini-fire engine driving beside me, still sporting the municipal marks from Japan. Stand on any busy street corner and an RHD will go by one a minute.
I have no doubt there will be enough individuals in the US to absorb all the RHD FD and the floor on pricing will quickly rise.
Look at 1960's British cars. We used to consider them junk, even new. Now these cars are fetching $20-30,000 in the UK. In comparison Japanese "classic" cars are greatly under-rated, but there is a groundswell of recognition of that, now, even in the mainstream collector car press.
One magazine reported in a recent issue the price of collectible FB has effectively tripled since 2015.
I have no doubt there will be enough individuals in the US to absorb all the RHD FD and the floor on pricing will quickly rise.
Look at 1960's British cars. We used to consider them junk, even new. Now these cars are fetching $20-30,000 in the UK. In comparison Japanese "classic" cars are greatly under-rated, but there is a groundswell of recognition of that, now, even in the mainstream collector car press.
One magazine reported in a recent issue the price of collectible FB has effectively tripled since 2015.
Last edited by Redbul; 01-11-17 at 08:31 PM.
01-11-17, 08:29 PM
#49
01-11-17, 08:33 PM
#50
i guess we will see... in the coming years, more and more iconic 90s japanese cars will be becoming legal. the market could boom. i think it will. i dont see us having them as plentiful as redbul described in canada but i do believe that they will be common enough that the novelty of them will go away and people will start buying them for their capabilities instead.