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All these threads about torque braces got me thinking about how much my engine is shaking and I decided to look into the matter. I decided to fabricate my own rather than pay the $170+ to buy one. Please keep in mind that in this post I am not saying anyone did a bad job or doesn't know what they are doing. I'm posting this because I want more info on the subject.
The first thing that came into my mind was that I wasn't quite sure if the engine hangar that seems to be the common place for attachment was quite up to the job. I unbolted it and made a really solid aluminum bracket to replace it (I really should have taken a picture of it before I went back to school ). I used a piece of aluminum (I wanted to use titanium but I couldnt find any locally) to join the engine to the fender.
I'm really not concerned about the fender strength since it is by the shock tower, so it seems to me that it would be a good place to mount to. My issue was with the strength of the intake manifold and all of the pressure being put on it. If you get the chance, push as hard as you can on your intake manifold toward the drivers side of the car and have a buddy rev the engine. I tried this and I barely made a difference on how far that engine moved (I am 175lbs). I would like to know what you guys with the conventional brace think about the strength of that spot. Have any of you had it on for over a year? How is it holding up?
Here is the plan I am toying with now. There is a metal bracket that restricts the movement of the drivers side motor mount. Has anyone just tried putting a piece of metal or hard plastic in between the mount and the bracket to further restrict the movement of the engine? I think that this would be an ideal place to limit the engine.
Sorry about the long post. Let me know what you think even if you haven't messed with it. I open to all opinions! Thanks!
The stress that the solid brace puts on the UIM/LIM is what turned me off to it. I like the idea of the damnpner brace since it will nearly negate this problem. I'm just waiting on silvr94r2.
It uses a dampner similar to a motorcycle's. Instead of a solid rod putting all that pressure on the IM's, it will damnpen the motion, and should relieve alot of the stress. I'll try to find you a pic.
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but isn't that where the engine hoist point is at? Being right there would be an ideal spot in my opinion. If it can handle the stress of pulling the engine out, it should handle the stress of the engine torqueing.
Either way, the P.P. Racing engine torque brace(Poor People Racing...means it's self fabricated) was definitely a good investment.
Shifting is SO CRISP. I should have made this thing awhile ago.
but isn't that where the engine hoist point is at? Being right there would be an ideal spot in my opinion. If it can handle the stress of pulling the engine out, it should handle the stress of the engine torqueing
I thought about that. Still, I'm not sure if it was made to put up with a constant stress so much as it would be for occasionally removing or replacing the engine. It is a lot of stress on a point that the factory may not have intended for quite that amount. However, I could be wrong.
dude like jspec said it can take the weight of a motor i think it can take a little shake!! and btw put it on your car and you will never doubt why you did it and say to yourself i should have done it sooner
Lost Time- I thought about making a brace like that myself but a much simpler version (piece of rubber in a tube with a rod attached to the engine contacting the rubber), but I abandoned it for obvious reasons. If it was actually built well (read- not the way I was thinking about) then I could see it as a very good idea.
dont be so sure about the engine wall either..mine is cracked around the brace. I think it's from engine braking....the engine torques the other way and pulles the brace away from the wall.
This is just a note, not an answer. Any engine movement is lost energy to the wheels. An engine brace will force the energy through the powertrain, thus to the ground. BUT, listen to Sir Issac Newton. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Make sure both sides of the brace are strong enough to handle the reaction (I know this is what your trying to find out). Every point of energy transfer should be checked. I've heard of engines rotating instead of the wheels because they had to much torque for their mounts (transfer points), not on 7's though.
Originally posted by FDokinawa dont be so sure about the engine wall either..mine is cracked around the brace. I think it's from engine braking....the engine torques the other way and pulles the brace away from the wall.
perhaps you just need to spread the energy around alittle more (ie. make a bigger mount on the fender wall side)
Originally posted by Dont_Be_A_Rikki dude like jspec said it can take the weight of a motor i think it can take a little shake!!
I have no doubt the brace works, but I have bad misgivings about the long term use of the hoist eye on the manifold as well. Remember that the eye is merely designed for the dead weight of the motor to hang under it, not for 250+ horsepower to constantly be banging away at it. There is a tremendous amount of force involved here.
I keep picturing how the load goes through the eye, down the manifold, and into the crankcase. I don't like the fact that the lower intake manifold and its bolts are acting like a big 'ol lever at the seal between the lower intake and block.
I have no doubt the brace works, but I have bad misgivings about the long term use of the hoist eye on the manifold as well. Remember that the eye is merely designed for the dead weight of the motor to hang under it, not for 250+ horsepower to constantly be banging away at it. There is a tremendous amount of force involved here.
I keep picturing how the load goes through the eye, down the manifold, and into the crankcase. I don't like the fact that the lower intake manifold and its bolts are acting like a big 'ol lever at the seal between the lower intake and block.
My thoughts exactly. I'm going to try my idea as soon as I have the time to do it. I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes.
PFS uses chains around the motor mounts so there is very little movement as not to tear away the motor mounts on thier single turbo conversions. They chained both sides on thier 3 rotor.
Funny you mention the chain thing.....i used to have that on my Mustang about 7yrs. ago.
The intake mount was designed for pulling up and out not side to side jolts. That's why I'm still trying to get the damper brace done. It's been such a pain in the *** trying to find a company that has the kind that i want. The motorcycle damper is all wrong and wont work although one of the manufacturers has agreed to work with me and make the right one.
I've also contacted the other company about being a dealer for them so we'll see how that works out also.
I use the solid ones on my other cars but i'm not quite sure about the long term effects of a solid brace in that location. I've been playing around with other spots so we'll see how those come out.
Damon, way back when everyone was doing their seperate braces, one of the larger threads, either silvr94r2's or the other guys's had a pic attached. It is a bent bar that attaches to the alt mounting bracket and the strut tower brace attachment point. I'll see if I can find it.
If enough people are interested, I can organize another run for the Tripple R torque braces, this time around there will be no setup charges, and i will try to get the price down a bit, and find a place to ploish them at a good price.
Anyway, minimum guy will run is 10 of them, so just PM me if you are interested and if enough guys respond I will post another GB.
I did a bit of thinking before making a brace of my own. I also attach at the lift point on the UIM with a rod that extends to the fender well. I chose this location because of the moment arm from the e-shaft axis and the plane of the motor mounts. The moment arm is about a foot, therefore the force on the UIM will be the motor torque divided by moment arm. In reality, it's quite a bit less due to the effects of the motor mount bushings and diff mounts, say 300 lb for the heavy hitters, no issue for the UIM as long as you bolt it down per Mazda's design. I put it in the plane of the motor mounts to eliminate any rotation about the vertical axis of the motor due to the couple between the brace and the motor mounts, not good for PPF/motor mounts/etc. As far as cracking goes, I suspect it will be a function of continuous vibration and not load. If you have a brace which vibrates the chassis, watch out for cracks. The number of cycles due to vibration will be orders of magnitude more than those due to engine loads while driving. Time will tell, fire away.
). I used a piece of aluminum (I wanted to use titanium but I couldnt find any locally) to join the engine to the fender.
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