S4/s5 swap into 87 wont run
10-20-14, 01:15 AM
#51
Senior Member
Thread Starter
That's AWESOME. I actually resoldered my CPU last night to kill time while the battery was charging. But when I installed it last night these things didn't happen so I just assumed I had done nothing. Courtesy lights still don't turn on and security light wasn't showing up. Most of the time the security light works. Twice ever the courtesy lights have turned on and sometimes the horn doesn't work. I was trying to fix these problems on the side starting with the CPU. Wasn't sure if CPU or anti-theft needed to be addressed first to get the courtesy lights turning on so I started with CPU. I really want courtesy lights it's so dark getting in at night when I was driving the car before. However that is the not the goal of this thread.
10-20-14, 09:31 AM
#52
The courtesy lights are powered by the room fuse as it powers the Blue/Red wire on a constant basis. If you checked the overhead courtesy light switch the L/R wire should then have constant voltage (no key). If it does then the problem lies in the switch or the door switch sensor. The door sensor sends a ground to the light switch w/the door open using the Blue/White wire. And does the overhead courtesy light switch work in the on position or no position at all?
10-20-14, 11:20 AM
#53
Senior Member
Thread Starter
The courtesy lights are powered by the room fuse as it powers the Blue/Red wire on a constant basis. If you checked the overhead courtesy light switch the L/R wire should then have constant voltage (no key). If it does then the problem lies in the switch or the door switch sensor. The door sensor sends a ground to the light switch w/the door open using the Blue/White wire. And does the overhead courtesy light switch work in the on position or no position at all?
The passenger side door switch is jammed in and won't pop back out so I can't expect it to ever work until I take a look at it. But the drivers side should be done.
The courtesy lights on the interior door panel don't turn on either.
10-20-14, 11:59 AM
#54
If you have the overhead in the proper position (there are 3 of them) then if you apply a ground to the Blue/White wire the light should come on. The lights in the door work off of the same two wires, L/R for constant power and L/W for ground. If you apply a ground to the L/W wire at the door light then it should cause those lights to turn on in addition to the overhead light. And the L/W wire to the door sensor is the same L/W wire running to the door lights and overhead switch.
10-22-14, 02:04 AM
#55
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I was thinking about what I had changed when the engine had stopped running:
I found and corrected two vacuum leaks. One was at a block off plate and a vacuum hose was missing from the back the UIM at one of the three ports.
I then found that the throttle position sensor adjusting screw was missing and added it and adjusted the TPS sensor to be 1k with no throttle.
Then I raised the throttle stop screw and had the scary 3k idle. Then I turned it way down and it hasn't run since. I tried adjusting it up and down but it was probably just very flooded that day and that's when I had the fuel leak out from the Downpipe area and puddle under the car. I haven't changed the throttle stop screw since.
With the correction of the vacuum leaks, is it possible that the engine just needs more air now that it is correctly monitoring air only coming in from the AFM? And if so, do you think I just need to allow more air to come in by adjusting the AAS (which I have never touched)? Am I correct in thinking that if I unscrew it, it will allow more air to come in? I'm at the point of thinking that if I just pull off some vacuum hose caps and allow a vacuum leak it could start again.
I'm sure I also need to raise the throttle stop screw back because it probably isn't even touching the throttle where the cable attaches right now. But I also think that even without this, I should be able to still keep the engine on by holding the accelerator pedal a bit (if it starts).
I know I need the fuel pump regulator but the engine consistently turned on immediately every time over 15 times without it, before I fixed the vacuum leaks and adjusted the throttle stop screw.
10-23-14, 10:31 PM
#56
Senior Member
Thread Starter
This is last weekend when we tried to start with starter fluid.
That first starting at the beginning is the closest it ever sounded to starting From there I had hooked up the connecting relay and tried with starter fluid and it didn't seem to make any attempts
That first starting at the beginning is the closest it ever sounded to starting From there I had hooked up the connecting relay and tried with starter fluid and it didn't seem to make any attempts
10-23-14, 11:11 PM
#57
talking head
no reg swap and fuel pressure check,, no pass go ,,
do you think you are the first person to ever swap in a bigger pump on the standard NA chassis with a stock reg ?
mazda found a two speed circuit necessary with a stock turbo pump and a stock reg
and you with an even bigger pump?
do you think you are the first person to ever swap in a bigger pump on the standard NA chassis with a stock reg ?
mazda found a two speed circuit necessary with a stock turbo pump and a stock reg
and you with an even bigger pump?
Last edited by bumpstart; 10-23-14 at 11:14 PM.
10-24-14, 03:27 AM
#58
Senior Member
Thread Starter
no reg swap and fuel pressure check,, no pass go ,, do you think you are the first person to ever swap in a bigger pump on the standard NA chassis with a stock reg ? mazda found a two speed circuit necessary with a stock turbo pump and a stock reg and you with an even bigger pump?
In the mean time I'll do the research to see how to install a fpr, and which is best for a stock setup so that I can install it in the spring
10-25-14, 04:31 AM
#60
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Whenever I refer to adjusting a screw in the past, the throttle stop screw, I've always been adjusting the screw up top in the photo, next to the throttle cable
It's confusing because in the link Satch posted before, they don't seem to have the top screw that I have when they refer to "the gap" area, they just seem to have a stopper/bolt that is not adjustable. I don't know if I should adjust my throttle stop screw to rest against the throttle, or adjust the bottom screw to make the throttle lean towards the throttle stop screw instead as they were trying to do in the link.
As for the link that fuhnortoner, I don't have the AAS screw since it isn't NA so I am not sure what the equivalent screw would be on this engine.
Idle set screw Look at the info/pics in and around post #81 https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generati...-657023/page4/
10-25-14, 05:33 AM
#61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I don't have the AAS because the emissions and BAC have been removed.
From rotary resurrection on removing emissions:
"Your idle adjustment (unless you kept the BAC) is on the back side of the throttlebody, under the IC, on top. IN the above pic, if you look just below the 2 capped nipples, you can see the IC shield plate, and just under that, the 8mm locknut and flathead setscrew that is your only idle adjustment."
Should I ever be adjusting the fuel/air potentiometer? The engine came with one that had the jb weld removed, and so I put it aside and connected the harness to my original pot that still had the jb weld in it, hoping that it would already have the correct setting.
From rotary resurrection on removing emissions:
"Your idle adjustment (unless you kept the BAC) is on the back side of the throttlebody, under the IC, on top. IN the above pic, if you look just below the 2 capped nipples, you can see the IC shield plate, and just under that, the 8mm locknut and flathead setscrew that is your only idle adjustment."
Should I ever be adjusting the fuel/air potentiometer? The engine came with one that had the jb weld removed, and so I put it aside and connected the harness to my original pot that still had the jb weld in it, hoping that it would already have the correct setting.
10-25-14, 09:08 AM
#62
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As Bumpstart said,you need to get rid of the stock regulator.
An Aftermarket adjustable regulator needs to be installed with that Walbro pump.
Otherwise you are just pouring fuel into the engine without any way of controlling it as the stock regulator does nothing as it is overwhelmed by the Walbro pump.
You want to test this?..Disconnect the Fuel pump(connector)..Spray quickstart at the engine.
You said the plugs were wet before you took a pic of them.
They should not be WET.
That means excessive fuel.
An Aftermarket adjustable regulator needs to be installed with that Walbro pump.
Otherwise you are just pouring fuel into the engine without any way of controlling it as the stock regulator does nothing as it is overwhelmed by the Walbro pump.
You want to test this?..Disconnect the Fuel pump(connector)..Spray quickstart at the engine.
You said the plugs were wet before you took a pic of them.
They should not be WET.
That means excessive fuel.
Last edited by misterstyx69; 10-25-14 at 09:24 AM.
10-25-14, 06:53 PM
#64
Senior Member
Thread Starter
If you have the overhead in the proper position (there are 3 of them) then if you apply a ground to the Blue/White wire the light should come on. The lights in the door work off of the same two wires, L/R for constant power and L/W for ground. If you apply a ground to the L/W wire at the door light then it should cause those lights to turn on in addition to the overhead light. And the L/W wire to the door sensor is the same L/W wire running to the door lights and overhead switch.
The car is shorting out again and I have no chance of starting it. Satch you know what I mean, the problem I was having when I stopped working on it at the end of August.
For those who don't know, whenever I turn the key to ignition to start the car, there is a large click sound and everything turns off. The problem went away on it's own. I guess I have to begin diagnosis trying the find the short on the third starter wire within the harness. It's probably melted somewhere.
03-31-15, 04:09 AM
#65
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Hey everyone, winter is coming to an end and I'd like to start working on the rx7 and diagnosing these problems again so I can get my car running.
Over the winter I got a dual inlet aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, from what I remember it's the same one as is on the guide on fc3spro. I still need to get fittings for it but I plan to run it in series with flex fuel hose and 6an to female spring clip fittings. I believe I have s4 rails so I should be able to remove the stock regulator and get a fitting in there.
As for the wiring short I'm not sure where is the best place to begin diagnosing it. One major problem is that when I last tried, the problem was intermittent as follows: I would turn the key to start the car and once I turned it past ON there was a click sound and all power turned off. At this point I would always turn the key to off and pull the battery.
Some things I did to try to diagnose the issue before were that I removed the starter from the car and ran it on my driveway with a battery. The starter works and the solenoid also works and neither appear to be shorting. I then put the starter back in the car and unhooked the activating wire from the starter (leaving positive hooked up and of course still having it grounded). When I turned the key the car did not short out and of course did not turn over but something was happening in the fuel injection area.
I also tried to locate the starter relay but couldn't find it where it was supposed to be. I found what appeared to be an aftermarket Bosch relay which i am suspecting is the starter relay. I tried to check continuity between the pins of the starter relay and the white connector wire on the starter, but every pin had some connection showing (with a resistance) and it also had continuity with everything else in the bay (strut towers..). So I couldn't find the wire this way.
An important note is that I had a small fuel fire when the starter blew and sparks lit some fuel on the ground below the starter and on the fuel filter one time when I was trying to start the car. I put in a new starter which was working to get the engine turning for a couple months before the short began to come and go.
So my questions are how should I go about diagnosing the starting short, and should I be installing the fuel pressure regulator before or after I do this? I know I'll have to set some pressures for example idle pressure or pressure when the key is turned to ON and don't know if i should be doing this install now when I can't even get the car to turn over? I know it's required for getting the engine to run so my guess is that I can do it first if I want to. However, I can always keep the fuel pump disconnected while I'm doing all of the starter short diagnosis, so that the pressure is still low when I start the install.
I'm going to be back there this weekend so I'll have some time to try things out.
Over the winter I got a dual inlet aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, from what I remember it's the same one as is on the guide on fc3spro. I still need to get fittings for it but I plan to run it in series with flex fuel hose and 6an to female spring clip fittings. I believe I have s4 rails so I should be able to remove the stock regulator and get a fitting in there.
As for the wiring short I'm not sure where is the best place to begin diagnosing it. One major problem is that when I last tried, the problem was intermittent as follows: I would turn the key to start the car and once I turned it past ON there was a click sound and all power turned off. At this point I would always turn the key to off and pull the battery.
Some things I did to try to diagnose the issue before were that I removed the starter from the car and ran it on my driveway with a battery. The starter works and the solenoid also works and neither appear to be shorting. I then put the starter back in the car and unhooked the activating wire from the starter (leaving positive hooked up and of course still having it grounded). When I turned the key the car did not short out and of course did not turn over but something was happening in the fuel injection area.
I also tried to locate the starter relay but couldn't find it where it was supposed to be. I found what appeared to be an aftermarket Bosch relay which i am suspecting is the starter relay. I tried to check continuity between the pins of the starter relay and the white connector wire on the starter, but every pin had some connection showing (with a resistance) and it also had continuity with everything else in the bay (strut towers..). So I couldn't find the wire this way.
An important note is that I had a small fuel fire when the starter blew and sparks lit some fuel on the ground below the starter and on the fuel filter one time when I was trying to start the car. I put in a new starter which was working to get the engine turning for a couple months before the short began to come and go.
So my questions are how should I go about diagnosing the starting short, and should I be installing the fuel pressure regulator before or after I do this? I know I'll have to set some pressures for example idle pressure or pressure when the key is turned to ON and don't know if i should be doing this install now when I can't even get the car to turn over? I know it's required for getting the engine to run so my guess is that I can do it first if I want to. However, I can always keep the fuel pump disconnected while I'm doing all of the starter short diagnosis, so that the pressure is still low when I start the install.
I'm going to be back there this weekend so I'll have some time to try things out.
03-31-15, 10:22 AM
#66
If the car has/had the factory alarm it would have the starter cut relay and if the car did not have the alarm then it would not have the relay. In either case find the supposed relay and write down what the wire colors are. The starter relay would have only one plug with 4 wires and they would be two Black/Green wires, a Black/White wire and a Light Green/Yellow wire.
Also, does the clutch need to be depressed to normally start the car?
If you place battery voltage to the B/W wire of the starter solenoid and the starter turns over each and every time then the starter and its wiring would seem to be fine.
Also, does the clutch need to be depressed to normally start the car?
If you place battery voltage to the B/W wire of the starter solenoid and the starter turns over each and every time then the starter and its wiring would seem to be fine.
03-31-15, 11:38 AM
#67
Senior Member
Thread Starter
If the car has/had the factory alarm it would have the starter cut relay and if the car did not have the alarm then it would not have the relay. In either case find the supposed relay and write down what the wire colors are. The starter relay would have only one plug with 4 wires and they would be two Black/Green wires, a Black/White wire and a Light Green/Yellow wire. Also, does the clutch need to be depressed to normally start the car? If you place battery voltage to the B/W wire of the starter solenoid and the starter turns over each and every time then the starter and its wiring would seem to be fine.
That's true about the starter itself seeming to be fine, but couldn't it have a short in the wiring harness above it where the wire comes down from the relay? Also I wonder how It possible for everything to just switch off rather than blow a fuse or something else?
I will check the wire colors and get a photo of it.
03-31-15, 12:48 PM
#68
There are two types of ingnition wires powering the fuse box. One has voltage w/key to on and start while the other has voltage w/key to on but not start. The wipers are an example that would have voltage w/key to on but not start. The main relay would be an example where the B/W wire to it in the two wire plug has voltage w/both key to on and key to start. The reason why this occurs is because starting the car requires a lot of amperage so accessory items like the wipers and turn signals and radio die so the voltage could be used solely to start the car.
If the relay you have has the 4 wires as mentioned then just bypass the relay and pair the thick B/G wire to the B/W wire and this will take the ignition voltage w/key to start and direct it to the starter. Make sure you are pairing the proper two wires. Remember, the starter relay only has one plug w/4 wires and that's it. The main relay has two plugs and 6 wires in total (4+2).
If the relay you have has the 4 wires as mentioned then just bypass the relay and pair the thick B/G wire to the B/W wire and this will take the ignition voltage w/key to start and direct it to the starter. Make sure you are pairing the proper two wires. Remember, the starter relay only has one plug w/4 wires and that's it. The main relay has two plugs and 6 wires in total (4+2).
03-31-15, 09:33 PM
#69
Senior Member
Thread Starter
There are two types of ingnition wires powering the fuse box. One has voltage w/key to on and start while the other has voltage w/key to on but not start. The wipers are an example that would have voltage w/key to on but not start. The main relay would be an example where the B/W wire to it in the two wire plug has voltage w/both key to on and key to start. The reason why this occurs is because starting the car requires a lot of amperage so accessory items like the wipers and turn signals and radio die so the voltage could be used solely to start the car. If the relay you have has the 4 wires as mentioned then just bypass the relay and pair the thick B/G wire to the B/W wire and this will take the ignition voltage w/key to start and direct it to the starter. Make sure you are pairing the proper two wires. Remember, the starter relay only has one plug w/4 wires and that's it. The main relay has two plugs and 6 wires in total (4+2).
04-04-15, 02:26 AM
#70
Senior Member
Thread Starter
I found the actual starter relay. Not sure what the other relay is for. This is the other relay
It's just in front of the drivers strut tower near the fuse box. When I was looking for the starter relay before I was looking under the trailing coil pack not to the side based on the diagram in the Haynes manual for #22
Starter relay:
The battery is charging right now so I haven't tried starting it to see if it the intermittent shorting is still happening. But my plan is to run a new wire for the B/W wire to the starter since I'm suspecting a short along it. Then if it still shorts out I will connect the large B/G to the B/W wire as you said.
It's just in front of the drivers strut tower near the fuse box. When I was looking for the starter relay before I was looking under the trailing coil pack not to the side based on the diagram in the Haynes manual for #22
Starter relay:
The battery is charging right now so I haven't tried starting it to see if it the intermittent shorting is still happening. But my plan is to run a new wire for the B/W wire to the starter since I'm suspecting a short along it. Then if it still shorts out I will connect the large B/G to the B/W wire as you said.
04-06-15, 01:31 AM
#71
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Had a buddy come by to help try and diagnose the starter short I'm having. We went to work removing some items which had been tampered with and then cut up by the previous owner.
Looking at the Haynes manual wiring diagram, we checked continuity at the starter relay B/G wire and it had continuity with both key to off and key to ignition with the positive battery terminal. We did this without the battery in the car. Not sure if it should have had continuity in both cases, but this was what we found. We also checked the ignition switch to make sure it hadn't been tampered with and it wasn't.
I have some weird relays and wiring which are cut up in my car that I've ignored until now. One is the Bosch one I listed in the post above.
It had a wire running to the main fuse and another wire running into the car which tapped into one of the lines in the large blue connectors under the left side of the dash. It also had two black wires running out of it which were cut. We removed it and the wires tapping in.
My buddy also found another relay under the right side of the drivers dash which appeared to be stock but wasn't. It tapped into one or two of the lines on the circuit opening relay. It also had two blue lines which were cut. Previously I found a switch on the foot rest which also had two cut blue lines. So we removed this relay and resoldered the lines on the circuit opening relay that it tapped into.
Random relays and wires going nowhere:
Disconnected the fuel pump connector and cranked the car. It didn't short, but this doesn't prove much because the short before was intermittent.
Went under and disconnected the connectors for the transmission, starter, oil pressure sender so that we could pull up the wiring harness and check for shorts on the starter wiring area. Didn't appear to have any shorts after tearing apart the old plastic and tape wiring looms covering the wires. So at this point I won't run a new wire from the starter relay to the starter just yet. I'm going to add a new connector at the starter though because the old one is a bit melted from the fire.
I don't have my Haynes manual here so I can't reference this, but it showed a ground on top of the transmission bell housing to the chassis although one isn't listed on aaroncakes's guide to proper grounding procedures. I'll probably add one anyways because it can old help.
Still not sure of what was causing everything to switch off when I tried to start the car before? The battery was always fully charged. Short on the starter, voltage drop over the whole system? I don't know.
Looking at the Haynes manual wiring diagram, we checked continuity at the starter relay B/G wire and it had continuity with both key to off and key to ignition with the positive battery terminal. We did this without the battery in the car. Not sure if it should have had continuity in both cases, but this was what we found. We also checked the ignition switch to make sure it hadn't been tampered with and it wasn't.
I have some weird relays and wiring which are cut up in my car that I've ignored until now. One is the Bosch one I listed in the post above.
It had a wire running to the main fuse and another wire running into the car which tapped into one of the lines in the large blue connectors under the left side of the dash. It also had two black wires running out of it which were cut. We removed it and the wires tapping in.
My buddy also found another relay under the right side of the drivers dash which appeared to be stock but wasn't. It tapped into one or two of the lines on the circuit opening relay. It also had two blue lines which were cut. Previously I found a switch on the foot rest which also had two cut blue lines. So we removed this relay and resoldered the lines on the circuit opening relay that it tapped into.
Random relays and wires going nowhere:
Disconnected the fuel pump connector and cranked the car. It didn't short, but this doesn't prove much because the short before was intermittent.
Went under and disconnected the connectors for the transmission, starter, oil pressure sender so that we could pull up the wiring harness and check for shorts on the starter wiring area. Didn't appear to have any shorts after tearing apart the old plastic and tape wiring looms covering the wires. So at this point I won't run a new wire from the starter relay to the starter just yet. I'm going to add a new connector at the starter though because the old one is a bit melted from the fire.
I don't have my Haynes manual here so I can't reference this, but it showed a ground on top of the transmission bell housing to the chassis although one isn't listed on aaroncakes's guide to proper grounding procedures. I'll probably add one anyways because it can old help.
Still not sure of what was causing everything to switch off when I tried to start the car before? The battery was always fully charged. Short on the starter, voltage drop over the whole system? I don't know.
06-30-15, 02:42 PM
#72
Senior Member
Thread Starter
problem solved, engine starts and idles
I just got my engine started and idling and I wanted to come back here to update that the problem has been solved.
Once again the main issues were that it was flooding like crazy to the point where I couldn’t start the car and sometimes when I turned the key to start all the power would switch off in the car rather than crank until I pulled the battery neg cable.
I fixed a number of problems all at once so I am unsure which issues solved which problems but here they are all at once.
Front harness
- I took my front harness out and both the positive battery wire to the starter was melted as well as the wire which activates the started solenoid. I replaced both wires and connectors.
- While I had the harness out, I also replaced the alternator wire to the positive battery terminal.
Engine harness
- I removed the engine harness as well in order to check for any problems underneth
- There was a melt on one of the ecu to injector connectors
- The guy I bought the engine from had connected the o2 sensor connector to the knock sensor and also switched the primary and secondary injector connectors so that they were reversed so I corrected this
Grounds
- I sanded down the neg battery ground to the drivers strut tower and put a new bolt as well as the 6 pin connector ground at the top of the drivers strut tower.
- The firewall to transmission ground wire was missing so I added that with new bolts and sanding.
- The ECU ground wires in the engine harness had three melts so I replaced them with a new connector
Sensors
- The TPS sensor was all over the place, ranging from numbers all over 0 – infinity while it was sitting still at idle throttle position. I replaced this with one from my NA engine which had a range of 1 to 4.5 k ohm instead
- I missed purchasing a turbo boost pressure sensor and only had my NA one installed so I purchased and replaced this
Fuel
- The previous engine owner had also installed 460 cc injectors of high impedance while the ecu is designed for low impedance 550 cc injectors so I replaced these.
- I installed an aeromotive fuel pressure regulator in series with S5 rails and the new injectors
Thank you everyone for your guidance in diagnosing that the fuel pressure regulator was likely the solution to my no start/idle problem. Removing and looking through both the harnesses helped to fix my cranking problem and likely some other underlying issues.
Once again the main issues were that it was flooding like crazy to the point where I couldn’t start the car and sometimes when I turned the key to start all the power would switch off in the car rather than crank until I pulled the battery neg cable.
I fixed a number of problems all at once so I am unsure which issues solved which problems but here they are all at once.
Front harness
- I took my front harness out and both the positive battery wire to the starter was melted as well as the wire which activates the started solenoid. I replaced both wires and connectors.
- While I had the harness out, I also replaced the alternator wire to the positive battery terminal.
Engine harness
- I removed the engine harness as well in order to check for any problems underneth
- There was a melt on one of the ecu to injector connectors
- The guy I bought the engine from had connected the o2 sensor connector to the knock sensor and also switched the primary and secondary injector connectors so that they were reversed so I corrected this
Grounds
- I sanded down the neg battery ground to the drivers strut tower and put a new bolt as well as the 6 pin connector ground at the top of the drivers strut tower.
- The firewall to transmission ground wire was missing so I added that with new bolts and sanding.
- The ECU ground wires in the engine harness had three melts so I replaced them with a new connector
Sensors
- The TPS sensor was all over the place, ranging from numbers all over 0 – infinity while it was sitting still at idle throttle position. I replaced this with one from my NA engine which had a range of 1 to 4.5 k ohm instead
- I missed purchasing a turbo boost pressure sensor and only had my NA one installed so I purchased and replaced this
Fuel
- The previous engine owner had also installed 460 cc injectors of high impedance while the ecu is designed for low impedance 550 cc injectors so I replaced these.
- I installed an aeromotive fuel pressure regulator in series with S5 rails and the new injectors
Thank you everyone for your guidance in diagnosing that the fuel pressure regulator was likely the solution to my no start/idle problem. Removing and looking through both the harnesses helped to fix my cranking problem and likely some other underlying issues.
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