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Since I'm on a bit of a budget, I'm going to stick with the stock subframe to body camber link. I may press out the factory bushings in the future and install alloy bushings, since my subframe bushings are solid aluminum. Time will tell.
Since I'm on a bit of a budget, I'm going to stick with the stock subframe to body camber link. I may press out the factory bushings in the future and install alloy bushings, since my subframe bushings are solid aluminum. Time will tell.
will that even work? wouldn't the solid subframe bushings change the angle of the subframe a bit, making the link not fit any more?
The factory link has some give to it, but I'm not sure. The whole assembly is still sitting on my garage floor. I'm waiting for the PBM spherical control arm bushings. I am not using the ball/cup subframe riser, instead I'm using PBM diff mounts that I bored the center hole out to 20mm to fit the factory subframe studs. It should put the subframe in the same place as the original mounts. The bushings should be in later this week, so I will let you know.
If it doesn't work out, I'll just order an adjustable unit with heim joints and be done with it. I would prefer not to do that, because the subframe will not tilt like it would with factory soft bushings so the adjustable arm is useless.
The factory link has some give to it, but I'm not sure. The whole assembly is still sitting on my garage floor. I'm waiting for the PBM spherical control arm bushings. I am not using the ball/cup subframe riser, instead I'm using PBM diff mounts that I bored the center hole out to 20mm to fit the factory subframe studs. It should put the subframe in the same place as the original mounts. The bushings should be in later this week, so I will let you know.
If it doesn't work out, I'll just order an adjustable unit with heim joints and be done with it. I would prefer not to do that, because the subframe will not tilt like it would with factory soft bushings so the adjustable arm is useless.
That is correct, but it may not be exactly the same distance anymore after the subframe bushings and other mods. I ran the solid bushings with the stock sub link for awhile, but the dimension changed enough after I put in the 8.8 that I needed the adjustable link because I did not want to force the subframe to bolt to the factory sub link.
Last edited by LargeOrangeFont; 02-22-17 at 01:16 AM.
Instead of making another thread Ill add to this one.
I will eventually end up on Feal Coilovers, but while I had the car in the air on Friday for a new clutch we noticed the PO had cross threaded the nut on the left rear lateral rod and never got it tight and just left it. So now the rear subframe bushings and such have been moved up my list. Id like to do it all in one go and have it ready for when I do put the Feals on.
My list so far is
PSMax:
Toe adjustable rear lateral rods
Subframe Camber arm
DTSS eliminator kit
Trailing Arm Rear Upper Bushing
Trailing Arm Forward Bushing, Spherical Bearing
Ronin:
Stage 2 camber link
Where Im having questions is which rear subframe bushings would be best. And while Im at it which trans mount, and engine mounts are recommended.
To make the FC rear suspension right you do need a few parts.
Do not put poly bushings in the trailing arms. It will bind. Delrin will bind too. Used OEM soft rubber or spherical.
Buy the spherical bearings for the rear trailing arms.
You can buy the PBM individual camber links, they do work, but the Ronin Speedworks camber links are lighter and shorter for a better camber angle. I'd get those. They make them in 3 lengths too so you have some adjustment if needed. Most just get the shortest ones though.
Do not buy the subframe camber link.
You do not need adjustable toe links.
If your stock toe links are in good shape, you can adjust the toe with the stock eccentric bolts.
Im about to install these. What do you guys mean they bind, and why?
The poly bushings do not allow free movement, and do not allow twist of the rear trailing arm to correct camber. Don't install them, order OE rubber replacements or PBM spherical bearings.
Poly or delrin bushings in this area should never be used.
If it were me I'd get some other subframe bushings. You can search on EBay and find delrin full height subframe mounts for $78.
Alright, so a full height delrin subframe bushing from just about anywhere is the way to go, but the rest of it all looks good yea? And any recommendation on Trans or engine mounts?
I just got done installing the PBM solid diff bushing bored out to 20mm for the subframe, the PBM Control arm spherical bearings, the PBM DTSS eliminators, and the stock camber arm.
It all bolted in very easily. The subframe link was about 3mm off from bolting in with the subframe torqued, but loosening the bolts on the camber arm at the body and the frame made everything line up perfectly. The whole knuckle moves through full travel very smoothly without binding. I have the T2 rear diff with a stock front mount and I used 3M window-weld to fill the rear diff bushings. I'm going to install a pinion snubber at some point, but that will come later.
I still have the stock camber links that bolt to the control arm for right now. I am going to install the brakes and a wheel and measure the camber. The eye test shows that at the ride height I feel like I want to run, it's at -2.5 degrees camber. This is a guess based on the experience I have with seeing many alignments. After I know what the camber is, I will order the Ronin links in the length I need.
did you need to press these in? mine pretty much fall in and out
Mine basically went in by hand. It was a 0 interference fit. If you notice, the bushings do not meet in the middle and they are flanged on both ends. Obviously the raised portion goes toward the control arm, but when the bolt is tightened, it will sandwich the knuckle between the bushings. There is no press fit needed with the design. The DTSS bolt is torqued to 95 ftlbs, so it will never move. I have the exact same concerns as you, I'm sure. I was initially worried about them going in by hand, but since they sandwich together, they will never move.
Thanks. Your input has been extremely helpful and spot on. I saved a bit of money over buying everything under the sun and I have a reasonably sorted rear end. Ronin links come later, but I'm still a long ways out. My build thread is updated to about 3 months ago, but the car is still on jack stands.
Good to know it's not just me with the 'loose' DTSS bushings. I figured they would be fine once torqued.
How were the spherical bearings to press in? I was trying to just use a bench vise, but they seemed realllly tight so I stopped. I think i'll need to use an actual press to get them done
Good to know it's not just me with the 'loose' DTSS bushings. I figured they would be fine once torqued.
How were the spherical bearings to press in? I was trying to just use a bench vise, but they seemed realllly tight so I stopped. I think i'll need to use an actual press to get them done
and since we're sharing progress pics
A vice will not do it. To assemble them, you put the bearing inside the gold sleeves. Then, what I did was I threw the bearing and sleeve assemblies into the freezer for about 4 hours. I work in an independent auto shop, so I have access to all these tools, but I took them out of the freezer and used a little motor oil on the outside of the sleeves and pressed them in with a press. It took quite a bit of effort, but they did go in smoothly. It took about the same if not a little more effort than a wheel bearing to press in.
If you do not have a press, take it to a shop or someone you know who has one. Freezing the sleeves feels important to me because of how much effort it did take with them frozen. You can heat up the sockets in the arm if you want, I didn't because I was on lunch break and didn't have time to heat up the socket. I was going to use my heat gun to do it. A torch will work too, but I didn't want to damage the paint.
Clean the paint out of the inside of the socket as well. When I pressed mine in, the paint kinda peeled up in the arm as I was pressing the bearing in. Not a big deal, just giving you a heads up.
I agree with all of that. I typically use a bit of wheel bearing grease on the bushing and the bore. Some gentle light sanding with medium grit paper or a wire wheel to prep the bore will help too.
Are the OEM bushings very expensive? I've got a master set of poly bushings I've yet to install, but the more I read about them the worst they seem.
Out of the entire kit all I would use is the front control arm bushings, the sway bar bushings if you have stock sway bars still, and perhaps the end link bushings if you do not have upgraded end links.
Out of the entire kit all I would use is the front control arm bushings, the sway bar bushings if you have stock sway bars still, and perhaps the end link bushings if you do not have upgraded end links.
This Energy Suspension master kit also includes ball joint And tie rod end boots. Would these be okay to replace with polyurethane? Thank you for your responses in this thread, by the way. I'm about to sort out my rear end, replace my front differential mount and see about some of the bushings. I'm still debating whether I will need to replace rear differential mounts as well. My car is a stock NA, street driven.
This Energy Suspension master kit also includes ball joint And tie rod end boots. Would these be okay to replace with polyurethane? Thank you for your responses in this thread, by the way. I'm about to sort out my rear end, replace my front differential mount and see about some of the bushings. I'm still debating whether I will need to replace rear differential mounts as well. My car is a stock NA, street driven.
those boots look to be completely useless IMO. they don't really flex enough to seal the joints at all
02-20-17, 10:45 AM
